OOC Blacklist

[Guest Menown]

The ability to let players blacklist Voltage players from their OOC visibility is something I've thought about for a while.

While it'd breed the whole 'I don't like you' idea and style, it might be good for when somebody is talking just a bit too much in OOC, and somebody wants to stop that, without having to hide OOC all together.

[Killerhurtz]

I approve of this. I hate that sometimes OOC has to be globally disabled for a single idiot who can't shut up.

[Garnascus]

As small as this community is i feel like there's better ways to solve "I don't like what you're saying". Ahelping is a thing or you could try pming them over byond.

[Frances]

It could be an interesting idea, as long as it was round-specific. (i.e. it was reset at every roundstart.)

That should hopefully stifle people's efforts to blacklist people for petty reasons somewhat.

[Guest]

Everyone should have the right to ignore whomever they like for as long as they want. This is an elegant solution to issues that are brought up to further tone policing in ooc.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

It could be an interesting idea, as long as it was round-specific. (i.e. it was reset at every roundstart.)

That should hopefully stifle people's efforts to blacklist people for petty reasons somewhat.

 

Well, that and it'll help avoid a lot of confusing situations where you forget to un-blacklist someone and end up seeing a lot of very confusing one-sided conversations.

[Frances]

Everyone should have the right to ignore whomever they like for as long as they want. This is an elegant solution to issues that are brought up to further tone policing in ooc.

That's the thing, though. I can see people using a blacklist to perpetuate stupid vendettas, aka "I'm just gonna ignore this person because I'm convinced they're an idiot and couldn't ever say anything of value".

It's not a healthy attitude to encourage, I think? Like, I can't think of anything that someone could say that would justify them being muted forever, that wouldn't already result in admin intervention. If people are mad at each other they should be able to work out whatever dispute they have. Heck, get a mod involved if it's necessary, but OOC shouldn't be turned into a kindergarten where certain people don't speak to each other because of whatever pettiness.

(Can you name me one situation where two people would never be interested in seeing each others' name or comments in OOC, ever again, and both would be considered as acting in a reasonable manner?)

[LordFowl]

I personally think admins should be more liberal with handing out OoC mutes (Its a thing that can be done) to individual trouble-makers.

[Guest]

It's not our place as a community to dictate that people must either be regularly exposed to people they don't want to listen to ooc, ahelp them for hurting their fee fees, or turn off ooc altogether.

The ability to permanently ignore or unignore individual players in ooc, again, puts the power in the hands of individual players. Which is ideal.

[Garnascus]

I think the cons outweigh the pros here. We as staff can handle any troublemakers who are toeing the line or being far too aggressive over certain topics. The argument that we are too conservative about doing this has some merit however, we don't outright ban discussions on politics or religion and even trolling and posting memes is fine to an extent.

Perhaps this issue is better framed as "is there a point we can agree on that someone should be muted or talked to" and "are staff doing enough to combat it if there is such a problem".

[Guest]

I think the cons outweigh the pros here. We as staff can handle any troublemakers who are toeing the line or being far too aggressive over certain topics. The argument that we are too conservative about doing this has some merit however, we don't outright ban discussions on politics or religion and even trolling and posting memes is fine to an extent.

Perhaps this issue is better framed as "is there a point we can agree on that someone should be muted or talked to" and "are staff doing enough to combat it if there is such a problem".

 

Can you outline the actual reasons that make this suggestion bad or something? I feel like you're talking in circles and not really addressing what you think would be bad about this suggestion.

[Garnascus]

I don't think players being able to blacklist others so that they can't see their OOC chat is a good idea. I think its too excessive a solution for a problem that has much healthier ways of being handled. Such as PMing the player in question over byond and try to reach some amicable conclusion.

I also don't want to see groups forming of "this person has these three muted" and "these two are muted by this guy". If you have a problem with someone talk to them and if they being a Dick ahelp it.

[jackfractal]

Yeah, this is like blocking someone on twitter. All of twitter hasn't imploded as a result. It's not that bad Garnascus.

[LordFowl]

Twitter and Aurora are ultimately very different, but their differences does not prevent a blacklist from being possible for Aurora. It all comes down to the basic question of whether we would prefer a situation where everyone can be individually entertained by their experience on Aurora based on the mechanics we implement, or if we would prefer a situation where the selection of mechanics develops a community and a community would then develop happiness.

Twitter is not a community in the same sense that Aurora could be. Twitter is a hub, a network.

If we implement an OoC Blacklist we take steps to attempting to ensure individual happiness. If we forbid a blacklist we would do so in an attempt to develop community. Which is then more important?

[Frances]

I'm still waiting for my question to be answered.

Give me an example of someone deciding to block another party forever where neither of them are being complete idjits, and you'll have my vote.

[witchbells]

I also don't want to see groups forming of "this person has these three muted" and "these two are muted by this guy". If you have a problem with someone talk to them and if they being a Dick ahelp it.

 

This isn't something that would happen unless some hothead feels obligated to tell OOC who they have and have not muted, which can be solved with a simple pm telling them not to be a gigantic prick about it.

[Guest]

Person A is of the opinion that catbeasts are okay.

Person B is of the opinion that catbeasts cannot do any good and that they should burn in hell forever.

Person C is pretty moderate here, or just doesn't care.

Person A and B get into a fight over OOC over whether catbeasts are MORAL or IMMORAL. Since it's the internet, the only thing that can be traded are subjective opinions. These two get pretty hissy and mean to each other. Confirmation bias is a conversational bitch. All they're doing is shitposting, but they could go on for hours about how they're 'legitimately arguing' and 'not breaking the rules whatsoever' if they get even close to being told off by staff.

Person C is wondering how these two people could even function in a much more tangible social environment, given the nature of A and B's arguing and rudeness. Person C didn't toggle on OOC to hear this shit. Person C probably wants to chat with other people out of the game about real stuff that's happening or going on that doesn't have to do with toxic shit.

+ Person C can choose whether or not they can view A and B complaining.

+ A or B can choose to mute each other before the argument even begins, thus preventing a conflict from escalating or even from happening altogether.

[Garnascus]

Well the problem with that scenario delta is if staff tell you to stop then there is no "arguing for hours" it stops or we mute them, simple. Ideally its stopped before a blacklist even needs to be used.

[Frances]

There's a legitimate idea for a mute that I can actually support.

When people are having an acceptable, but really long-winded debate that you really don't care about, yet you still want OOC for other stuff, such as round/game discussion or general chatting. (And you get annoyed simply by seeing a lot of OOC because you've never modded and oh my god the log spam turn it off)

It's kind of a big addition when compared to say, IRC chatrooms, but OOC does have uses other than existing to serve whatever current topic is being discussed, so I can see the utility of muting certain conversations. What I'm supporting, however, is the muting of conversations, not users (being ignored by people you're trying to communicate with because they decided they don't like you isn't fun.)

Like I personally think that people should grow the fuck up and learn to tolerate OOC (and I say this in the kindest way, but anyway, OOC really isn't Hitler), but it's sort of a nice service to have if a dev is willing to code it and it seems mostly harmless.

[Guest]

Garnascus seems to be putting forward the argument that moderators and administrators should be in charge of tone policing and argument resolution "behind closed doors," and should take a more aggressive stance in doing so.

I can't say I like that idea at all.

OOC chat is literally an irc channel in game. Having block functions is a great way for users to voluntarily cease being exposed to indivuals or situations they dislike for indefinite periods. Without the nuclear option of ahelping and getting mod staff involved over petty shit. Or toggling off ooc altogether.

Forcing people to interact with one another in ooc, or "just leave," in the name of "community building" is just as daft as a parent using the excuse "it builds character" as a copout.

[Garnascus]

if OOC chat was even close to the cess pool people in this thread are making it out to be i might agree....

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I tend to mute OOC when it gets rather busy, because I like to wind down and play the game. But there are times where a mute button would let me keep OOC on. But it would have to be something that resets every round.

I'd use it predominately at round-start, when the handful of the usual people start screeching in a rage when whatever game mode they don't like gets voted in.

[Frances]

OOC chat is literally an irc channel in game. Having block functions is a great way for users to voluntarily cease being exposed to indivuals or situations they dislike for indefinite periods. Without the nuclear option of ahelping and getting mod staff involved over petty shit. Or toggling off ooc altogether.

And yet my question goes unanswered. Give me an example of a reasonable permablock?

[Killerhurtz]

OOC chat is literally an irc channel in game. Having block functions is a great way for users to voluntarily cease being exposed to indivuals or situations they dislike for indefinite periods. Without the nuclear option of ahelping and getting mod staff involved over petty shit. Or toggling off ooc altogether.

And yet my question goes unanswered. Give me an example of a reasonable permablock?

 

I disagree with a permablock simply on the principle that if somebody would need to be permablocked, they'd also need to be banned as per the "don't be a dick" rule.

[jackfractal]

Considering the vast disagreements in this community about very basic things, I suspect that the definition of 'being a dick' is quite diverse.