Diversity

[rrrrrr]

This is the thread where I whine about racial and religious diversity among characters people play. I think it's fairly bad when I'm legitimately surprised to see an Indian character, considering there are around 1 billion of them today, in real life.

Here's another thing - I rarely, if ever see a character that isn't white or east Asian. This is.. I dunno, weird? For that matter, you never really see Muslim or black characters that aren't vaguely racist in some way. Or any Jewish characters at all, period.

I don't know what the point of making this thread was, but enjoy the miniature rant on racial diversity in a 2-D sprite based spaceman game.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Pretty sure you can't select Judaism as a religion, and its not like there are yarmulkes in game. Anyway, why wouldn't it mostly be whites and east asians? Look who have gone to space in our time: Mostly whites and east asians. I don't see why that would be different in the future. (although planets would be colonized by all manner of humans, I don't see blacks and indians being predominant forces on research stations tbh fam)

[Frances]

This problem has one main cause: the SS13 community is not very racially diverse either. You mostly see young, white people because players are mostly young, white people, and it's what's most relatable to them.

This brings some interesting and amusing consideration: it's fun for people to play as someone of the opposite gender, or of a completely different species, but it seems less fun to play as a black or Indian person when you're white. I have no idea why that is, aside from the supposition that people might prefer to play characters that are conventionally attractive to themselves, and find it easier to play as characters of their own races, or "idealized" races (pretty much white people tbh.)

The most obvious situation to that would be to find a way to write this into the lore, though it doesn't work as well considering Biesel is some sort of international colony (I think), and you'd have to retcon it so NanoTrasen had mostly American roots.

Something interesting to think about is racial mixing: if people of various ethnic backgrounds came together to colonize new regions of the universe, the new populations would reflect mixed-race identities to a certain degree (and this degree could be pretty big compared to what we've seen historically, since whites finally stopped considering non-whites as subhumans, and now we've got free love and all.)

So it's very possible that spacers of the future wouldn't have just one race, but be an amalgam of many races.

[Nikov]

As Manfred said to Zahrina;

"You'd think the cloning machine ran out of toner."

That said, who cares? Players will play what they want. I imagine most don't want to play a different race because they'd feel racist to do so. If the average PC gamer is white, it follows the average 2D Spessman is white. Whatever we do, lets not start some artificial attempt to inject diversity by having people play crummy stereotypes of other races.

[Killerhurtz]

Here's my two cents:

First, for me, it's not a question of attractiveness or even relation to characters. It's a sheer manner of cultural appropriateness. I can do as much research as I want, I don't travel - I don't KNOW who the other ethnicities are. I don't know how the Indians, Africans, Middle-Eastern or even Black Americans truly behave, all I know is a bastardized flanderization of them. I do, however, know whites and east asians because in most of North America, they are very prevalent and most people seem to think, at least, they know them well.

But I feel that if I tried, I'd at best do a disservice to the ethnicity and at worst seem blatantly racist and possibly line myself up for a ban because of cultural inappropriateness.

Second, for the species: it expands on that. Because there isn't *cough* any real Tajara, Unathi, Skrell, Diona or IPC, if I fuck up - it's not inappropriate, it's just an error. It can be corrected, and no one but people who want to be will be truly offended. Let's put it this way: by some random blind luck, two highly influential politicians play SS13 on TV. One plays an Indian person, the other an Unathi. Both radically fuck up their characters. Which one is going to lose his career?

Third: Honestly, why the fuck do we care? As Frances said, human culturalism is most likely to be unrecognizable in 442 years. You see a lack of cultural diversity. I see people playing as spessmen. Why did you think it was even a relevant point to make? We're not here to make a life-accurate simulation. We're here to have fun. And as it happens, there's too many risks involved with said diversity.

Fourth: Honestly? There's very little that gets my blood boiling more than making a rant on which the only solution is implementing X for the sake of X. Let's ask you a question: Have YOU played a human of any other ethnicity than some caucasian, east-asian OR your ethnicity?

Yes, I'm defensive. Yes I'm slightly agitated. But it's because I've been burnt before, and there's only a few ways this can go, and none of them is well.

--I tried posting this before Nikov posted, but pretty much what he said--

Edited November 20, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

crummy stereotypes of other races.

That's where I wanna reassure people, or at least bring a particular idea to light.

Race is literally whatever you make it to be. There's a difference between culture and race. If you want to research a specific culture and roleplay it, that's awesome (and that's actually one of the ways you can use roleplay to gain some super cool life experience), but as far as race is concerned, a black dude is just... a black dude. Same for any other race.

If people just want to change their racial background to be different, it's not super complicated. Chances are if you have friends of another race, and never noticed anything particular about them, it's because there isn't anything really worthy of note. Personalities go a long way towards defining an individual, but race really doesn't.

So race =/= culture, and, uh, I'm not really sure what's even important to do with that. It's not like any specific cultures are prominent on SS13 unless players choose to make it so (you really don't hear much about religion or ethnic customs on the station in general, so if you want to forgo them it'd probably go unnoticed).

Edit: @Killer

Dang. I thought this post was just a curious observation. I really don't see what's worth getting our knickers in a twist.

[Killerhurtz]

Sorry Frances. It's just I've TWICE seen communities get entirely destroyed from within with a comment like that, and I don't want this happening again with Aurora - it's a reflex.

Hell I might even delete that post. I don't know.

[rrrrrr]

Let's ask you a question: Have YOU played a human of any other ethnicity than some caucasian, east-asian OR your ethnicity?

 

Yes.

[Guest Menown]

I was under the impression Houssam was our resident Jew.

[Frances]

Sorry Frances. It's just I've TWICE seen communities get entirely destroyed from within with a comment like that, and I don't want this happening again with Aurora - it's a reflex.

Hell I might even delete that post. I don't know.

Well, what do you mean by destroyed?

Cultural appropriation feels like such a weasel word to represent various misguided agendas on the internet. Sure, it's an actual problem, but you have to ask yourself, does it/will it really apply here?

If I was part of a minority, cultural or otherwise, and saw a person make a genuine effort to represent my minority with good intentions, I'd probably, first of all, well, be happy that someone was taking an interest in my minority with no ill-will (and wanting to roleplay as a person of another culture? Like, come on. I think that's a valid desire.) And if they actually got something wrong about whatever thing they were representing that I knew more about, I'd be glad to correct them, which feels a lot more constructive than throwing a fuss.

I believe there's ways to deal with race smartly and sensibly, without making it a minefield.

[Nikov]

I get pissed at people who play my ethnic background badly, and I'm white as Robert E. Lee.

[Hackie]

I'm pretty sure race doesn't really mean much. It's not really my first thought when making a character. I chose to make a vaguely Mediterranean character because in the lore globalization pretty much means only 'em uplifts are too different from most people as a majority.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I was under the impression Houssam was our resident Jew.

 

Accurate

I have a few black and arabic characters; race is, like most things, decided by me completely arbitrarily when im making a character

It's just that my mains are alien scum so they don't get out much

[Killerhurtz]

@Frances

I mean just that. Because someone brought it to the table, these communities completely dissolved because of the sheer difference of opinions and the ensuing shitstorm that happened on a subject that seemed irrelevant a few days before that. Gone forever.

And so far I haven't seen it - and with the whole Tajara episode, I don't want to risk actual racism being an issue. (I'm not talking about cultural appropriation - these people I ignore because it breeds segregation. I'm talking about bona-fide shitshows happening because someone got pissed at someone else for portraying an ethnicity wrong.)

But that might be just me.

[Frances]

I mean just that. Because someone brought it to the table, these communities completely dissolved because of the sheer difference of opinions and the ensuing shitstorm that happened on a subject that seemed irrelevant a few days before that. Gone forever.

And so far I haven't seen it - and with the whole Tajara episode, I don't want to risk actual racism being an issue. (I'm not talking about cultural appropriation - these people I ignore because it breeds segregation. I'm talking about bona-fide shitshows happening because someone got pissed at someone else for portraying an ethnicity wrong.)

But that might be just me.

As long as we have a good moderation staff, this shouldn't be an issue. What really matters in these disputes is how each side's arguments are brought up - as long as everyone remains level-headed, we have nothing to fear (and if people start being too ridiculous, I trust the staff to be able to put an end to it).

I think the reaction to somebody displaying curiosity regarding somebody else's culture should be one of acceptance and encouragement. What's the point of making something sacred and scaring everyone away from it? You might protect cultures that way but nobody's ever going to learn about them.

[Zundy]

I feel like it's a non-issue. Next time I'll roll up a randomised skin color though because hell why not?

[Guest]

It doesn't really matter. Yeah, lack of asians and indians does sorta fuck with the lore, but it can be easily handwaved. Let people play whatever the fuck they want.

Edit: Within reason.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

It doesn't really matter. Yeah, lack of asians and indians does sorta fuck with the lore, but it can be easily handwaved. Let people play whatever the fuck they want.

Edit: Within reason.

 

Yes. This.

[Guest]

No one should care.

Play whatever characters you want, this isn't about quotas and social justice.