[DENIED] Permanent Ban Appeal

[Mofo1995]

At age 19, your best bet would be an intern or unskilled position (cargo techie, janitor, etc.). Seon could be in the process of going to medical school or something, but at that young of an age, she wouldn't have a lot of skills.

I don't mean to be intrusive, but surely she could be a lab assistant, right? Even 18 year old freshmen in college can be lab assistants under a principal investigator. All though, I suppose the key phrase there is "in college."

[MetaphysicalPersona]

At age 19, your best bet would be an intern or unskilled position (cargo techie, janitor, etc.). Seon could be in the process of going to medical school or something, but at that young of an age, she wouldn't have a lot of skills.

I don't mean to be intrusive, but surely she could be a lab assistant, right? Even 18 year old freshmen in college can be lab assistants under a principal investigator. All though, I suppose the key phrase there is "in college."

 

I was going to say this as well, if she's a in college as a science major wouldn't it be enough for her to be a lab assistant?

[Frances]

This is just my take, but the problem isn't that she's extraordinary. It's that she's extraordinary in six or seven different ways at once.

It's no fun to play characters that are bland and average in every possible way. We don't come here to sit down and continue an extension of our lives on a computer. We come here to do (and see) cool stuff. But there's a good way to do cool stuff, and a bad way to do cool stuff.

There are two (good) ways you can do this. It's not an all-or-nothing situation, where you have to turn your character in the blandest everywoman possible to earn your unban. But the collection of traits you (and I) have presented are all... extreme. It's not fair to say that your character had a rough upbringing, because it's more than that - she's using her experience to let herself get in trouble and kick ass on a regular basis. It's also not fair to say that your character has an interest in science despite her unusual background, because it's more than that again - she's literally top-of-her-class out of nowhere, and has the super-smarts despite possessing the attitude of someone who couldn't keep their attention focused on a book for more than a few minutes. It's again not fair to say that your character was slightly genetically modified when she was born as an illegal genetic experiment, has the appearance of a fanfiction mutant, and comes with a backstory and personality that would be better suited for the heroine of a teen novel than for one of many side characters trying to collectively create a narrative together on the Aurora.

So, for the two things you can do:

 

• One, you can focus on a trait, bring it to the extreme, and get rid of the other extreme traits so you actually have a chance to focus on developing something in a complex and organic way. Want Seon to be confrontational? Make her suffer for it. Make her feel conflicted, make her face consequences for the fights she picks, make her face regrets rather than always doing the "right" thing in the most cavalier way possible. Want Seon to be a super smart and fight to overcome the odds of her rough upbringing? Represent the struggles incurred by her personality. Make her actually feel complexed and ashamed by her appearance, not "if you look at me I'll break your face". If she's smart, don't make her earn it for free. Make her actually studious, diligent, captivated with her work. Don't make her the kid that gets perfect grades despite never being in class because they have to go fight against the bad guys. Want her to not give a shit about anybody's feelings and act super weird? Don't get into fights with people and break the rules so much. Weirdos avoid people or ignore them, they don't get upset with them and try to fight with them out of the blue unless they're a movie villain.
   
   
  
• Or two, you can keep her personality as it is, but tone down every aspect by a fair bit. She can be a lab assistant that's sorta weird, sorta confrontational, sorta dickish. She should still face consequences for her actions, and keep in mind that she would be fired the moment she got into trouble, because NanoTrasen has better things to do than care about one of the many, many lab interns they could get. If you go down this path, I'd advise getting rid of the gene modding, because it's probably the easiest thing to alter about Seon without significantly altering the rest of her personality, seeing as it doesn't really seem to have any impact on how she thinks or behaves.

As a whole, something I think your character is in a need of is real flaws. If you examine the flaws she currently has, none of them are really bad. Her terrible personality doesn't prevent her from getting a job on a high-class research station or actually doing the things she wants. Her past as a deeply-troubled urchin doesn't seem to prevent her from being one of the smartest people alive, and only seems to have consequences for the people she gets into fights with, not for herself. Her extensive gene modding still makes her pretty (how can you be complexed with your body image and flaunt your sexuality so much at the same time?), and only really serves as an additional excuse for her to get angry at people.

These flaws aren't good, because they don't feel grounded. They don't feel real. They make people think, "How could this character really be so lucky about everything", and not "Man, I really feel as if somebody could experience those things."

 

The guy in the backseat could have a lot of pointers about driving, but it's nothing anybody wants to listen to while the vehicle is in motion.

I'm just trying to offer advice as a fellow roleplayer to another. I don't have a clue what the whole dealo with "authority" and "responsibility" is, but the best resolution for this sort of issue is pretty much for the community to partake and help in the best way they can. It's silly to say someone shouldn't be listened to just because they're not a min, cause we're all doing the same thing here - roleplaying.

[Tablespoon]

At age 19, your best bet would be an intern or unskilled position (cargo techie, janitor, etc.). Seon could be in the process of going to medical school or something, but at that young of an age, she wouldn't have a lot of skills.

I don't mean to be intrusive, but surely she could be a lab assistant, right? Even 18 year old freshmen in college can be lab assistants under a principal investigator. All though, I suppose the key phrase there is "in college."

 

I would classify lab assistant as an intern, yes. I see no issue with a 19 y/o lab assistant.

 

This is just my take, but the problem isn't that she's extraordinary. It's that she's extraordinary in six or seven different ways at once.

 

This is the main issue I have with Seon. They seem to be a character trying to do too much. The extensive genetic modifications, the excessive skillset relative to age, their behavior icly and in their backstory which would lead to serious issues trying to get hired...there's just too much going on with this single character.

[MetaphysicalPersona]

I'll remove her skills...

[MetaphysicalPersona]

may I be unbanned now?

[incognitojesus]

may I be unbanned now?

You're asking to be unbanned repeatedly but not engaging in dialogue with staff aside from a few words strung into a single sentence. What are you planning on changing, and why should staff even believe that you'll change if you aren't really putting effort into an unban appeal?

[MetaphysicalPersona]

may I be unbanned now?

You're asking to be unbanned repeatedly but not engaging in dialogue with staff aside from a few words strung into a single sentence. What are you planning on changing, and why should staff even believe that you'll change if you aren't really putting effort into an unban appeal?

 

It's just that I feel like not arguing over this or going out of my way to explain in detail what I'll do, I changed my records three times now and I'm just waiting to see if it passes with each change. http://aurorastation.org/r/records/index.php?uid=metaphysicalpersona_seon-rinvonilldenberg

Also to add, I've changed her ways long ago she's not the same I mean look at my previous post... http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505

that's why I feel this ban in a little unjust, ICly She's not the same anymore and my records/skills were deemed too much so I lessen them a lot.

Skills:

- Close combat

- Cooking

- Botany

- Science/ Basic Genetics

This is too much?

Sorry if I speak not of the words you desire to hear, it's just my persona.

I simply want to play again...

If you're still unsatisfied, just tell me.

[MetaphysicalPersona]

I already took Frances words to heart and it's a bit hurting to be honest, I don't want to continue debating about why my character is horrible. I just want to play and show ICly what she's capable of, Something that has been avoided widely and completely.

[Frances]

What did you change in the records?

[MetaphysicalPersona]

What did you change in the records?

 

I forgot, I changed a few things, but I added a college to make it official she can work in R&D.

[Thundy]

I honestly do not understand what is so important about this character that you can't just scrap them, build a new character that is 30, white and normal and see how you go. To tell you the truth, this character and every character, is not worth being perma-banned for.

Honestly, work on your role play, the rest will come later.

[Dreamix]

I honestly do not understand what is so important about this character that you can't just scrap them, build a new character that is 30, white and normal and see how you go. To tell you the truth, this character and every character, is not worth being perma-banned for. (...)

I already tried.

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505&start=60#p46274

(...)[it would probably just be easier to] just bin/kill her, and make an entirely new character, MetaphysicalPersona. (...)

 

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505&start=60#p46276

(...)I actually really like Seon though, and I'd be really sad to see her go. I just thought I'd bring to light, in her defense, that she's no professional at R&D, since people had a lot of problems with her skills.

 

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505&start=60#p46284

(...)Pff, speak for yourself. You'd be surprised to hear how little people actually care about silly snowflakes. (...) but doesn't it sound rather inflated of you to say something that just boils down to "permakill your character because ''''people'''' don't like her"?

 

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505&start=70#p46291

I agree with Delta here. The character doesn't need to be killed off or taken off station just yet. She needs to operate within expected standards. (...)

 

And, what I think:

http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=71&t=4505&start=70#p46306

(...)Because, how I see it, if you change a character's looks, behavior, personality, backstory, qualifications, schools, past, [records] diseases...

Is it still the same character, after all? Or a new one, but with the name of the previous one? Wouldn't making a new character be easier for everyone?

[Guest]

What's the issue with fully retconning a character and keeping the name?

I also don't see why someone needs to be banned because one of their characters are shit. You know how the DOs fire characters? Why can't the administration just lift the ban and forbid the OP from playing Seon until they figure out how to write their backstory correctly?

Hell, they'd get to play some other character and give themselves an opportunity to improve. I've never seen an instance like this before.

How was Dasheva Blackheart dealt with, if I might ask?

[Dea Tacita]

I also don't see why someone needs to be banned because one of their characters are shit.

This was pretty much ruled an administrative matter (And not a DO matter) because it was NOT a decent character just being a butt and being stupid. It was a character that does not fit within the confines of the rules and established universe.

 

Why can't the administration just lift the ban and forbid the OP from playing Seon until they figure out how to write their backstory correctly?

 

This was intended to be an extremely short term ban, I expected Meta to simply look at the long lists of flaws that the community hurled at them, and then FIX SEON within a day or two at maximum. Which Meta has utterly failed at doing, as far as I can tell in this conversation. Frances (And other people) are attempting to establish intelligent discourse in-order to assist Meta in fixing their character, to which Meta responds with "I fixed it" while actually making no changes of significance and avoiding said intended intelligent discourse.

And While I may just use that method for further instances, this thread and the other threads about Seon have thoroughly convinced me that Meta is honestly not (yet) capable of creating a sane, reasonable and well-rounded character. Thusly, I don't believe any good would come of that, and so here we are, until Meta corrects his character, the ban will remain in place.

Edit: If a significant improvement is not made within the next day, I will be denying this appeal. Meta can then use his "What do you think of Seon?" thread to attempt to refine his character creation further in anticipation of the next appeal.

[MetaphysicalPersona]

What's the issue with fully retconning a character and keeping the name?

I also don't see why someone needs to be banned because one of their characters are shit. You know how the DOs fire characters? Why can't the administration just lift the ban and forbid the OP from playing Seon until they figure out how to write their backstory correctly?

Hell, they'd get to play some other character and give themselves an opportunity to improve. I've never seen an instance like this before.

How was Dasheva Blackheart dealt with, if I might ask?

 

I like this idea.

I'll make a new character but no records yet I'll make them the same way I did Seon, random Idea that was put into play and slowly added details.

May I proceed with this Dea?

[MetaphysicalPersona]

I'm sorry for making Seon.

[MagnificentMelkior]

I also don't see why someone needs to be banned because one of their characters are shit.

This was pretty much ruled an administrative matter (And not a DO matter) because it was NOT a decent character just being a butt and being stupid. It was a character that does not fit within the confines of the rules and established universe.

 

Why can't the administration just lift the ban and forbid the OP from playing Seon until they figure out how to write their backstory correctly?

 

This was intended to be an extremely short term ban, I expected Meta to simply look at the long lists of flaws that the community hurled at them, and then FIX SEON within a day or two at maximum. Which Meta has utterly failed at doing, as far as I can tell in this conversation. Frances (And other people) are attempting to establish intelligent discourse in-order to assist Meta in fixing their character, to which Meta responds with "I fixed it" while actually making no changes of significance and avoiding said intended intelligent discourse.

And While I may just use that method for further instances, this thread and the other threads about Seon have thoroughly convinced me that Meta is honestly not (yet) capable of creating a sane, reasonable and well-rounded character. Thusly, I don't believe any good would come of that, and so here we are, until Meta corrects his character, the ban will remain in place.

Edit: If a significant improvement is not made within the next day, I will be denying this appeal. Meta can then use his "What do you think of Seon?" thread to attempt to refine his character creation further in anticipation of the next appeal.

How did you think this would be an extremely short ban? Its asserting that her character is bad (she has to ask how), then theres the whole "okay why are those things bad, explain, and what changes would be satisfactory?" Which is still not completed, and then theres the editing and review of her records. There is no reason to think this would have been an "extremely short ban."

So its established that a significant detail was wrong in your mind during the inception of the ban. I question the legitimacy of this ban on that ground (would probably make a staff complaint if i were directly involved) and on the grounds that the issue, if there is one, is with this character. You could easily tell her to play a totally different character until this is resolved. Its unfair and most likely wrong to just preemptively assume any other character she makes would be unfit for the station. So remove the ban, and let her play something else until this is resolved.

[Dea Tacita]

How did you think this would be an extremely short ban?

 

My assumption that this would be a short-duration ban, was built upon the foundation that I personally offered to sit down with Metaphysical and personally rebuild their entire character from the ground up. I have offered to sit down with him on Skype or some other chat medium, redo his entire flavortext with him, redo his entire record system with him, and try to assist him to the best of my ability to reshape the foundation of Seon into a workable character that could work within the established confines of the universe. This is an offer I have extended after EVERY warning issued to Meta (that makes it between 4-6 total), and it is an offer that has been declined or otherwise ignored by Meta. It is not my fault at all that he neglected this opportunity.

 

So its established that a significant detail was wrong in your mind during the inception of the ban. I question the legitimacy of this ban on that ground

 

I would also appreciate it if you would not clutter this thread with off-hand accusations of illegitimacy (That by the way was agreed upon by the entirety of staff that was available at the time of the ban I.E. 2-3 Moderators, another admin along with the head administrator.) In a issue you are not personally involved in (as is stated in this forum rules). I have thus far tolerated the commenting of other non-involved individuals as for the most part they have provided either useful feedback towards Meta, or other constructive behavior which fits in this thread. However, launching into BLAME THE ADMIN BECAUSE REASONS! Due to me assuming any degree of competence/desire for improvement on the part of the banned party seems quite inappropriate to me.

 

I'm sorry for making Seon.

 

Do not be. Seon is the first brick upon what could be a grand road of great Roleplaying opportunities. But you NEED to engage in intelligent discourse in this thread, begging to be unbanned and saying "I fixed things but I dunno what" is NOT the way to go about it, talk to Frances, and talk to myself about your character here. I do NOT want you banned, you are not a bad person, you are not a griefer or anything. You simply don't have experience at creating characters, and I (and Frances) are trying desperately to provide you feedback on Seon so you can return to the server, but you NEED to engage with us.

 

I like this idea.

I'll make a new character but no records yet I'll make them the same way I did Seon, random Idea that was put into play and slowly added details.

May I proceed with this Dea?

 

No. I want a set of records/ a small backstory at the very least. If that is how you want to proceed, I can close this appeal and you can make a new one once you've written a reasonable set of records for that character. Again, I will freely assist you with the creation of those records if that's how you choose to proceed.

[MagnificentMelkior]

I'm not saying admins suck unban pl0x. I'm saying that it seemed obvious that it wouldn't be a short ban. If they denied your invitations then it would stand to reason they'd continue to. But you're right that that doesn't need to be discussed in this thread, its not the point.

However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

[Dreamix]

(...) However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

The thing is, MetaphysicalPersona seems to want to play Seon and Seon only (Assuming that I didn't misread anything).

[Guest]

(...) However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

The thing is, MetaphysicalPersona seems to want to play Seon and Seon only (Assuming that I didn't misread anything).

 

You're assuming, which is your mistake here.

If you had read Dea's posts, perhaps, you'd see that the OP was eventually banned for ignoring or neglecting several warnings ranging from friendly to stern, and seemingly not accepting any help that was offered. That makes sense, and it gives more context to the situation. It proves that was little to no effort made from the OP to improve until they were finally banned.

If there's a lack of confidence from staff for the player in particular to be able to create a more sane and normalized character, then I guess it's up to Metaphysical to prove them wrong. Good luck, OP.

[Dreamix]

(...) However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

The thing is, MetaphysicalPersona seems to want to play Seon and Seon only (Assuming that I didn't misread anything).

You're assuming, which is your mistake here.

If you had read Dea's posts, perhaps, you'd see that the OP was eventually banned for ignoring or neglecting several warnings ranging from friendly to stern, and seemingly not accepting any help that was offered. That makes sense, and it gives more context to the situation. It proves that was little to no effort made from the OP to improve until they were finally banned.

If there's a lack of confidence from staff for the player in particular to be able to create a more sane and normalized character, then I guess it's up to Metaphysical to prove them wrong. Good luck, OP.

Assuming that to improve == change or stop playing Seon. As far as I know, MetaphysicalPersona only tried to change their character, with rather miserable/slight results.

Also, assuming that Seon == current, genetically modified, 19 years old, top of the class Seon. And older Seon with changed, non-genetically modified past is no longer Seon, but a separate character. Just to clear misunderstandings.

I believe (and I'm sort of certain of that), that if MetaphysicalPersona would just kill Seon forever, and made a more sane and normalized character, a generic 30 years boringly-normal character, with NT-approved records, and a past of a normal corporate worker, the Staff would just unban them, just like that (I'm just ignoring self-antagging, for now). But, MetaphysicalPersona does not seem to want to let Seon go.

So, am I right? Are my assumptions right? (unless my English is really failing on me)

[Mofo1995]

(...) However, I still think Meta should be unbanned and just told not to play Seon or any similar character. Its unfair to just assume she's incapable of doing that.

The thing is, MetaphysicalPersona seems to want to play Seon and Seon only (Assuming that I didn't misread anything).

If this is true It's partly my fault. Seon is my IC best friend and so I tried to convince meta to just change his back story for Seon so I could, selfishly, try to keep my character's best friend around. So, I apologize to Meta, if he just wanted to make a new character. I still have hopes this situation will get figured out for Seon to return somehow. She really was significantly more tame and law-abiding in the days leading up to the ban.

[Dea Tacita]

Locking and denying due to a lack of progress on the banned party's behalf. Feel free to make a new appeal once you have redone Seon or made a new character and have improved records/backstory to display.