Neglect of Duty: What is it?

[Eliot Clef]

Diverting some discussion from http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=4671&start=30 to here.

As a Security regular, I'm pretty much answering what seems to be a misunderstanding here rather than raising a question myself, but this seems like the appropriate subforum for that.

In summary: Neglect of Duty in response to somebody abusing genetics powers is a pretty stock standard example of how Neglect of Duty gets applied on Aurora. It's kind of a catch-all regulation, since nearly any mistake of a sufficient magnitude can constitute neglect of duty. For instance, allowing the slimes to get out of hand in xenobiology.

There seems to be some disagreement from http://aurorastation.org/forums/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=858 Melkior here, but this is pretty much universally how I see Neglect of Duty used. If you're going around making a nuisance of yourself with powers as a Geneticist (as was the point of discussion in this thread), there's a pretty good chance you'll see Neglect of Duty charges slapped on you eventually.

If this isn't how Neglect of Duty is meant to be used, then uhh... what, exactly, is it for?

[MagnificentMelkior]

Thanks for making this thread, it was a good call.

Its meant to be used for negligence. On the wiki it says "This can be due to honest, or dishonest mistakes. Examples include scientists/engineers releasing plasma, doctors mixing up medicines that cause injury to patients, or the Chief Engineer allowing the singularity to escape." A xenobiologist release slimes is similar to releasing plasma, or in genetics, dropping a genetic modification on the ground or giving them to someone else (but that's probably explicitly covered by a higher crime.).

So hitting someone with telekinesis should just be battery/minor assault/ major assault etc by severity just as if you threw something with your hands at them.

[Guest]

Neglect of Duty applies to three things: Failing to complete your expected job duties. Failing to complete your expected job duties well. And failing to abide by the agreed station directives and regulations (multiple times is when this will be applied to you if ever)

[Skull132]

Neglect of duty was used at one point by sec and command staff to attack self-testing geneticists. Here's how: the standard for any and all scientific experimentation is that the scientist never use himself as a test subject. As such, by breaching that rule, you are neglecting your duties to follow safe testing procedure.

As for why it's a standard practice: the scientist cannot compromise his own health, or risk compromising it, in case the experimentation goes awry. This principle applies to genetics, rnd, xenobiologists who like to slimeman themselves, and virologists and chemists. I should probably write it into a directive. Too.

[Guest]

You still have to do that IAA directive as well.

[Lady_of_Ravens]

Neglect of duty was used at one point by sec and command staff to attack self-testing geneticists. Here's how: the standard for any and all scientific experimentation is that the scientist never use himself as a test subject. As such, by breaching that rule, you are neglecting your duties to follow safe testing procedure.

As for why it's a standard practice: the scientist cannot compromise his own health, or risk compromising it, in case the experimentation goes awry. This principle applies to genetics, rnd, xenobiologists who like to slimeman themselves, and virologists and chemists. I should probably write it into a directive. Too.

 

OMG yes please! Self-testing is just plain bad practice... testing on assistants is much better.

[Guest]

I've always interpreted neglect of duty as, "You've done your job so badly that you managed to harm others, yourself or your workplace, or all in one sitting, by either doing something or by failing to do it".

[Mofo1995]

OMG yes please! Self-testing is just plain bad practice... testing on assistants is much better.

Real talk here, would this count as neglect of duty? Can testing on assistants be the new SOP for science? From what I understand, the big problem with genetics testing is that protohumans can't tell you how they feel, but if you could test on assistants then they can tell you. Also I want to test the effects of laser cannons on undergraduate researchers.

[MagnificentMelkior]

OMG yes please! Self-testing is just plain bad practice... testing on assistants is much better.

Real talk here, would this count as neglect of duty? Can testing on assistants be the new SOP for science? From what I understand, the big problem with genetics testing is that protohumans can't tell you how they feel, but if you could test on assistants then they can tell you. Also I want to test the effects of laser cannons on undergraduate researchers.

This, and while there are test forms, if self testing is illegal and undocumented lab rats are illegal, geneticists are screwed on rounds without an RD or captain.

[Guest Menown]

And engineers are fucked without a CE or a Captain. They can't alter the station in any form. Technically they can't even perform repairs, given the fact there's a form in the database for it, yet you'll never see that enforced. It's because nine times out of eleven, most geneticists use their powers to chucklefuck. The only times I've seen anybody offered powers for a good use is when a geneticist wants to abuse their own powers and wants to look good about doing it.

[MagnificentMelkior]

And engineers are fucked without a CE or a Captain. They can't alter the station in any form. Technically they can't even perform repairs, given the fact there's a form in the database for it, yet you'll never see that enforced. It's because nine times out of eleven, most geneticists use their powers to chucklefuck. The only times I've seen anybody offered powers for a good use is when a geneticist wants to abuse their own powers and wants to look good about doing it.

A form existing is not the same as a form being required. Engineers set up the engines and repair and do whatever else they do, without a CE. But even if they were screwed without a captain or CE, that's not a good model to aim for. But I think we're digressing from issue at hand.

[Guest Menown]

The issue is many geneticists abuse their powers to annoy others, MM. It's because of that, they're held so strictly to the permission forms. You want to use your powers to trap people in lockers because lelfunny, go ahead, you get the forms for it, and the ability to get arrested for doing it, enjoy. Otherwise, you get to pretend you're not so eager to change your genetic code because you chose to ignore the logicial consequences of injecting yourself with radium so you can get powers to lelfunny your way into the brig.

Geneticists require a level two psychological screening for their employment. I personally feel any geneticist willingly to radiate their bodies in a Doctor-Manhattan-esque manner to be able to move a pen across the floor would be deemed mentally insane and placed under a psychiatric hold and charged with a neglect of duty, but that isn't quite fun, is it?

[the_furry]

The issue is many geneticists abuse their powers to annoy others, MM. It's because of that, they're held so strictly to the permission forms. You want to use your powers to trap people in lockers because lelfunny, go ahead, you get the forms for it, and the ability to get arrested for doing it, enjoy. Otherwise, you get to pretend you're not so eager to change your genetic code because you chose to ignore the logicial consequences of injecting yourself with radium so you can get powers to lelfunny your way into the brig.

Geneticists require a level two psychological screening for their employment. I personally feel any geneticist willingly to radiate their bodies in a Doctor-Manhattan-esque manner to be able to move a pen across the floor would be deemed mentally insane and placed under a psychiatric hold and charged with a neglect of duty, but that isn't quite fun, is it?

the hate for genetics is strong in this one

[the_furry]

also are we saying selftesting is no longer allowed? i thought for genetics it was assumed that the geneticist signed a waiver before even being employed.

[rrrrrr]

Self-testing was never allowed without having signed a form.

[the_furry]

Self-testing was never allowed without having signed a form.

from what I've been told by a good 10 people is self testing for geneticists is allowed. it's assumed as a geneticist whos job it is to find powers that you've signed a waver before stepping foot on the station. I mean the hell are we supposted to do if we can't even touch genetics with out there being some kind of head on board that would allow it? we can't pretend cloning is a full time job, the point of the job is to find and experiment with powers. soooo self-testing for the geneticist is kind of heavily implied.

[the_furry]

OMG yes please! Self-testing is just plain bad practice... testing on assistants is much better.

Real talk here, would this count as neglect of duty? Can testing on assistants be the new SOP for science? From what I understand, the big problem with genetics testing is that protohumans can't tell you how they feel, but if you could test on assistants then they can tell you. Also I want to test the effects of laser cannons on undergraduate researchers.

also also...are you really advocating for giving random (potentially bald) assistants powers, but geneticists themselves can't get them? how is this a good idea XD. I can see it now, safi gives every assistant on the server TK then explain that's the new sop so she shouldn't get into trouble. How bout we keep it as self-testing is ok and if they abuse it just arrest them. That way your only dealing with one person with powers. if they give it to anyone else without permission they get arrested, if they abuse it they get arrested. that way a geneticist can have what fun they can without being arrested while peace is still maintained by security.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Its not Bruce Banner or Doctor Manhattan levels of radiation. Its a perfectly managable amount of rads in a universe with dylovene and hyronalin abundantly available, if you take smart precautions. And you missed the point for why I started this arguement: I don't encourage flinging lockers at people or closing them in lockers. Doing so should be a crime, but it is NOT neglect of duty. Neglect of duty is for lab accidents and the like that cause issues (losing the singularity, loosing a virus/plasma/slimes, and the like. Trapping people in lockers because "lelfunny" would be kidnapping, or in the case where they aren't actually trapped, just annoyed, battery or minor assault. Just like if you pushed them in and closed it on them the ordinary way.

Skull (I think) said that Neglect of Duty was used as a catchall charge, and that is probably why you want to apply it here, but that's wrong. There should not be a catchall charge. If you can't brig someone lawfully for one of the million infractions that are on the books, then they should be set free. The existence of a catchall charge completely invalidates the ability of someone to argue with sec that they should be set free and actually be right.

[Guest Menown]

Its not Bruce Banner or Doctor Manhattan levels of radiation.

 

You're going to sit here and tell me it's not Bruce Banner levels of radiation when there's literally a Hulk mutation.

[MagnificentMelkior]

Its not Bruce Banner or Doctor Manhattan levels of radiation.

 

You're going to sit here and tell me it's not Bruce Banner levels of radiation when there's literally a Hulk mutation.

Yes! Names can be deceiving. I don't remember hulking out and being literally unkillable by bullets, twice my size, and able to fight gods 1v1 and be okay. Bruce Banner was accidentally exposed to a random and huge blast of gamma radiation that should have killed him. Same for Dr. Manhattan. It's an order of magnitude or two above the radio genetherapy in ss13.

[the_furry]

Its not Bruce Banner or Doctor Manhattan levels of radiation.

 

You're going to sit here and tell me it's not Bruce Banner levels of radiation when there's literally a Hulk mutation.

your going to sit there and tell me it's not ok when we literally have a medicine that's designed to treat Bruce banner levels of radiation in seconds? also just for reference as magnificent said, the hulk had the power to contend with superman. bare in mind superman can literally pull a chain of planets in a solarsystem...yeah don't see that happening with the 'hulk' we have.

edit

bruce banner is known to hold 150billion tons (it was a mountain)...so yeah...no not brucebanners hulk or probably not his levels of radiation.

[Guest]

OMG yes please! Self-testing is just plain bad practice... testing on assistants is much better.

Real talk here, would this count as neglect of duty? Can testing on assistants be the new SOP for science? From what I understand, the big problem with genetics testing is that protohumans can't tell you how they feel, but if you could test on assistants then they can tell you. Also I want to test the effects of laser cannons on undergraduate researchers.

also also...are you really advocating for giving random (potentially bald) assistants powers, but geneticists themselves can't get them? how is this a good idea XD. I can see it now, safi gives every assistant on the server TK then explain that's the new sop so she shouldn't get into trouble. How bout we keep it as self-testing is ok and if they abuse it just arrest them. That way your only dealing with one person with powers. if they give it to anyone else without permission they get arrested, if they abuse it they get arrested. that way a geneticist can have what fun they can without being arrested while peace is still maintained by security.

 

uh no you literally use your radio and say, "Hi, I'm looking for a willing genetic test subject to further my own research, any takers?"

Like, singular? One person? Someone who isn't supposed to leave the lab? Not every single bald assistant you see?

I mean, arguably, it's a lot less riskier if the performing scientist isn't the one who has their good genes at stake? Kinda like how they have literal lab rats to test medication instead of downing pills of possible killdeath by themselves.

[Guest Menown]

You two are acting like it's perfectly logical to radiate yourself for subpar reasoning because you don't feel like filling out paperwork or getting a test subject.

Imagine if a virologist injected themselves with viruses or radium and used your logic. "Well, we have medicine for it."

Or if engineers/security went straight into breaches without suits because they knew they'd be fine for a bit because medical was right outside. It's ignoring pain. You'd feel your DNA structure being changed. You'd feel your body breaking down and turning into a monkey, or a hulking giant creature bent on ruining windows and walls.

You're putting your body at a huge risk every time you do it, and you don't care, because you know the meta of 'there's medicine for it'.

[MagnificentMelkior]

You two are acting like it's perfectly logical to radiate yourself for subpar reasoning because you don't feel like filling out paperwork or getting a test subject.

Imagine if a virologist injected themselves with viruses or radium and used your logic. "Well, we have medicine for it."

Or if engineers/security went straight into breaches without suits because they knew they'd be fine for a bit because medical was right outside. It's ignoring pain. You'd feel your DNA structure being changed. You'd feel your body breaking down and turning into a monkey, or a hulking giant creature bent on ruining windows and walls.

You're putting your body at a huge risk every time you do it, and you don't care, because you know the meta of 'there's medicine for it'.

Radiation doesn't inflict pain, its side effects do (toxins). And minor pain that can be prevented with a timely injection or pill of Hyrodylo. Having your genome changed doesn't inflict pain unless you do the monkey-man transformation. Hulk would probably be irritating and unpleasant, but not to a torturous degree. Whenever I give inject myself with someone and find out its hulk, I print out a new hulk syringe and then remove the hulk from myself. A brief interval. So you see, it is entirely possible to self test in a reasonable and sane way.

[Skull132]

Consistent long-term radiation exposure literally kills people, Melkior. Pain or no pain. A geneticist doing self-testing on a regular basis would probably end up cutting years (if not decades) off his own life by doing so. And do keep in mind that we're talking about doses high enough to force mutation in the human genome. So please, no, "But x-rays are safe!" type of excuses v.v The doses involved in genetics are way-way higher than that.

[Guest Menown]

Consistent long-term radiation exposure literally kills people, Melkior. Pain or no pain. A geneticist doing self-testing on a regular basis would probably end up cutting years off his own life by doing so.

 

I'm waiting for the argument that said geneticist will just back up his data so he can be cloned afterward.