Remove Invisible Walls From Cultists

[Fortport]

I think they're unbalanced, and cannot be countered by any non-lethal means. Anyone surrounded by walls is untouachable.

[Ryan Falcorino]

A chaplain can easily demolish them. And their also basically one of the only ways to stop the common full riot gear 8 security officers + detective + HoS + captain + HoP force that goes to stop anyone who uses them.

[Fortport]

A chaplain can easily demolish them. And their also basically one of the only ways to stop the common full riot gear 8 security officers + detective + HoS + captain + HoP force that goes to stop anyone who uses them.

 

How the hell does anyone believe the chaplain if nobody can know about this sort of thing? They'll think he's crazy. I also think that cult armor and swords are pretty deadly on their own.

[CoolfoolFTW]

The invisible walls dont block airflow.

[Ryan Falcorino]

Eh, it would be up to the chaplain to make them believe. And when the cult goes "PRAISE THE BLOOD GOD." Ect ect, they would know its religious, and the chaplain is the religious authority of the station so they COULD consult him if theirs any "Blood cults" known in history or such. And cult armour and cult swords are NOT effective against E-Gun, flashbang, stun baton, ect security forces. Especially when they just gun them down with lethal lasers and place a DNC order on them because "Was running at me with a sword, had to take action."

[Guest Menown]

the chaplain is the religious authority of the station

 

In today's world, even religious people consider people claiming there's evil forces around crazy, so this is kind of flimsy. Believing the chaplain is meta. Not believing the chaplain is meta because you're ignoring an antag logically despite knowing OOCly it's real. Believing in the evil forces is meta. Not believing in the evil forces is meta. Nobody wins. Shut it all down.

[MagnificentMelkior]

the chaplain is the religious authority of the station

 

[a bunch of self contradictory stuff]

When mystical religious stuff happens provably in front of you, and another religious figure claims he can fix it, why would you not give them the benefit of the doubt?

[SierraKomodo]

the chaplain is the religious authority of the station

 

[a bunch of self contradictory stuff]

When mystical religious stuff happens provably in front of you, and another religious figure claims he can fix it, why would you not give them the benefit of the doubt?

 

Because technology and bluespace. A believer will always be a believer, and a skeptic will always be a skeptic, even if they have to reach out to find an explanation that isn't entirely logical or plausible.

[Guest Menown]

My point was to point out the new meta of 'ignoring plausible antag' due to fears of being called meta.

I've seen security outright ignore plausibility in supernatural antag because they've been worried they'll be called validhunters. That's why the walls are never taken down. Going to the chaplain would get them called validhunters.

[CakeIsOssim]

They are anything but imbalanced, IMO. Really annoying, but that does not imply imbalance. They can only have so many of them, and if the cultists want to hide behind them forever, just blow them out using an explosive. It'll vent whatever room they're in. Also, what Melkior said. If there's a bunch of magical shit happening, and there's a guy that says he can fix this magical shit, humor him. Because, he probably can. If some random guy calls you a validhunter, so what? I'd hardly call getting the chaplain to break down some invisisble wall validhunting.

[Fortport]

For an entire round, almost, a cultist sat in his walls while security watched, scratching their heads. They experimented with flashbangs, tasers, throwing batons, pepperspray, etc. That's like thirty minutes of shenanigans.

Eventually, the cultist just murdered five people simultaneously with blood boil. How's that for balanced? You have to resort to lethal just to do anything to them, like a freaking bomb.

I'unno.

[Garnascus]

I watched that round, it was amazing(until the blood boil). I'm not a fan of removing things just because someone found a clever way to use game mechanics.

[Jboy2000000]

You mean an annoying way to abuse game mechanics?

[Garnascus]

I Feel like "annoying" here means "security can't robust em". There's things you can do to force the cultists hand and remove him. Like causing a breach.

[Jboy2000000]

So, either let someone harass the station forever and ever because there is pretty much only one way to get them, or blow a hole in our multi-billion research station, probably killing them unless they have special EVA gear?

[Garnascus]

If they are continuously harrasing you and are a grave security threat then they quickly become valid salad. A few holes in the station is nothing when you're fighting blood images.

[Jboy2000000]

Still. Two walls, you become nearly impervious to anything, four walls, nothing ever can touch you short of making some kind of bomb and blowing them out. Four wall. You could make four walls easily, with little damage or time wasted on your part. On the other hand, if someone does their little hole, you need to get chemistry to make you exploding grenades, or get science to make a plasma bomb with a low enough yield to not rip the station in two. If that isn't unbalanced, nothing in this game is. Theres also all time times Ive seen cultists hear that the ERT's been called, and bumrushed to arrivals as they could seal up any and every way the ERT could get in without breaching the station. Id be find with them, as long as there was something to stop them from placing another wall directly adjacent to another one, that'd stop any and all possible abuse.

[Fortport]

"JUST BOMB THEM!"

They can teleport away.

[LordFowl]

It is a powerful, robust, and interesting game mechanic that can be applied in many diverse and tactical ways and is not limited like most other combat tactics because it does not actually apply damage, but provide opportunity to apply damage. In short, its removal would be detrimental to the cult meta, and the burden lay upon anti-cult to find ways to circumvent or otherwise nullify the invisible walls.

[Guest]

I find it funny how this is apparently a problem now and not earlier. The wall mechanic has been in this game a long time and not once has someone openly complained about it. Obviously because people can't deal with the fact of losing.

To simply put; if people can be creative with their tools, you start being creative with yours. The cult wall is not an impenetrable force, infact there are quite a few ways of removing them... though that's for you to figure out. Also the lol teleport isn't a thing you should use as an argument because cultists can not insta set up those things, they need to go through steps to get there. Cult isn't a round, that I personally have not seen, that is played very often. When I used to play around a year ago, there was hardly any good cultists in terms of the cult mechanics. I don't know if that's changed now but I doubt it has.

Cult mechanics don't need changing. People have overcome them before, they can overcome them again.

[Fortport]

Or you could just scrap cult in general-

but that'll never happen because it makes sense to have a magical garbage-clan of death worshippers that can warp around and eventually summon an evil god. The only problem I have with cultists are the walls, so far, and I've been playing SS13 off-and-on for years. Once they put up walls, you've got to go to extremes to get 'em, as far as I know.

Sure there's the chaplain as it's been said, but it's almost meta/powergamey to some to even do anything so specific. Everyone has to play dumb and that can be very frustrating when we're playing in a world where this sort of thing has never been realistically documented before.

"It's just technology, not real magic. Get outta here, chaplain."

[LordFowl]

The argument that we should remove cult from the game entirely because it doesn't make sense is wrong, because it does make sense. The Cult of Nar'sie is a canonical thing. This is one of the many revisions Jackboot has made to our lore, and I like this one in particular because it allows me to ignore arguments that x doesn't belong because it doesn't make scientific sense. Our universe is no longer designed to be scientific, nor is it strictly forbidden for there to be magical elements.

If people are unwilling to cooperate with the chaplain then it is expected that they should have their own plan. If they do not have their own plan, then they are refusing the chaplain in favour of sitting on their thumbs. Altogether however, that is an IC consideration and if people are unwilling to drop their edgy character skepticism then that is their own choice.

[Fortport]

Removing the cult mode from the game isn't the point of this suggestion. It's just my opinion, I admit.

I think the walls are too powerful because it's difficult to counter them in the late-game.

With no chaplain, you have to use explosives or render the room uninhabitable. If they have prepared themselves for a long game they can teleport away. I don't know if they can make more after that either, but I'm going to bet that they can.

If you don't want them removed, how about them breaking? The walls could be strong, but not indestructible against traditional trauma. Even in games with force fields, it usually takes focus and great power to hold up a magical barrier against something physical.

I used a flashbang during that round, on the cultist who was hiding behind his barriers. He went down, but I was frustrated that the walls were still up. How could he still be holding them up when he's completely incapacitated?

There has to be room for a tweak somewhere.

[Guest]

Removing the cult mode from the game isn't the point of this suggestion. It's just my opinion, I admit.

I think the walls are too powerful because it's difficult to counter them in the late-game.

With no chaplain, you have to use explosives or render the room uninhabitable. If they have prepared themselves for a long game they can teleport away. I don't know if they can make more after that either, but I'm going to bet that they can.

If you don't want them removed, how about them breaking? The walls could be strong, but not indestructible against traditional trauma. Even in games with force fields, it usually takes focus and great power to hold up a magical barrier against something physical.

I used a flashbang during that round, on the cultist who was hiding behind his barriers. He went down, but I was frustrated that the walls were still up. How could he still be holding them up when he's completely incapacitated?

There has to be room for a tweak somewhere.

 

this is all implying that the cultists have done absolutely everything right in which case they deserve to roll over everyone else.

[Fortport]

Think of it this way.

A cultist makes a cubicle of walls and just sits there, laughing at everyone before killing them all if they don't bomb him or get the chaplain.

They're doing this instead of tactically blocking off a hallway or specific entrances; this doesn't seem strategical at all.