Lore needs a restructuring: an outsider's perspective

[Frances]

Disclaimer: This post is mostly satire. I'm gonna curse a lot, I'm going to make fun of a lot of things. This is mostly an attempt to keep things entertaining, while venting out my frustration; this post is gonna be fucking long, so all the satire is mostly an attempt at keeping the reader interested. So, don't take anything personally. I'm not singling anyone out. I'm still glad you guys are doing a job with the lore, trying to get things together.

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I'm not part of the lore team. I talk to a few members of the lore team, and thus have a vague idea of how it operates. However, I am a player. And as a player, I will make one confession: I have no idea what the fuck's going on anymore.

I noticed few players actually discuss the lore in-game. We don't have many lore events. Outside-of-station backstories amount to almost zero. The reason for that? Lore is underdeveloped, uninteresting, and inaccessible. And the changes to it don't seem to be coming.

Here's what I know, as an average player.

 

We are a research station. We are orbiting somewhere in the Tau Ceti system (though the exact location of the Aurora is unclear, because I've received conflicting information from different lore sources). There is a big planet, named Biesel, where every single of my characters is from, because I don't know any other fucking planets (and neither does anybody else, apparently). Biesel has a capital, Lowell City (called "Mendell City" in the wiki, although this is apparently due to a typo - the name of the biggest major city of our lore is actually misspelled). There doesn't seem to be any other cities on Biesel. There is also a place named New Gibson, though I don't know what the fuck that is. Earth's destroyed, and we are working for a corporation named NanoTrasen, which is mining plasma and using the Aurora to research its uses. Despite having been on the station for eight months, I still don't know what the fuck plasma is used for, besides starting hallway fires that get people banned. And harvesting energy from a black hole, I guess. Also, NanoTrasen has a military. They're probably evil, or some shit.

 

Anything else, besides that information, I have no idea whatsoever about. And I don't think anyone else does either, because if they did, I'd probably have heard of it while playing at some point. Because if somebody walks up to me and tells me "Oh, I'm from planet Space Banana X-447", you can be sure I'm gonna be researching planet Space Banana X-447 on the wiki, so that I don't look like a complete idiot that doesn't know about an entire planet worth of people while holding a conversation. That'd be like, being some redneck that doesn't know Europe exists. Whatever.

And the wiki. I actually made the effort of looking at it a bit earlier, in the hopes that I had perhaps missed some critical bits of information everybody else knew about but simply decided to keep from me through some secrecy pact. But not only is our background summary a bunch of esoteric and uninformative poetry, but every single page is crammed with unnecessary and uninteresting details, while providing little content that is actually relevant to anything a player will ever care about.

Who gives a shit about the angle of rotational orbit of the Epsilon Eridani system? Certainly not me. It doesn't help me roleplay. And, don't take me wrong, I appreciate that someone actually took the time to write down all of that info. But it shouldn't have to be something I need to read through to get to the important bits, and even less the majority of the entire lore we have on a whole system. (By the way, I also learned that the Epsilon Eridani system existed. That would've been something nice to know a bit ago. Like, six months back or so. Unless it's a new solar system? In which case, maybe you should've told us that you added an entire new freakin' solar system to the lore? Who knows.) But yeah. Put that stuff elsewhere. Maybe in an appendix, at the end of planet's descriptions, or even on another page. But when I'm trying to get the basic info on what a planet is about and what it does, I don't want to sift through paragraphs of periapsis, apoapsis, and astronomical notations.

The wiki is clunky, I don't know where to go on it. It should probably be written in a way that makes it easy to navigate for people that don't know about the lore, not people that do. Because the point here is to educate the server's population, not keep records nobody's gonna be able to look at because they can't figure out where anything is.

I've also heard a few issues with the way lore is created - there seems to be a focus on what's accurate, rather than what's fun. And you should never let scientific accuracy dictate the plot when writing a story - there's something called suspension of disbelief, and it takes place the moment we have freakin' cat people and the god damn Killer Croc walking around as station employees. Basically, don't cut out every idea until you end up with something that's 100% accurate and predictable; you're most likely gonna end up with boring stuff if you do that. Instead, try to come up with cool shit; and if you see an idea that seems too retarded to exist (like computing power as a currency, or something), then you cut it out.

I'm not gonna speak on issues any more than that. I'm rambling enough as it is. Rather, I'm going to provide a list of what I'd actually like the lore to be, rather than what it is.

-Comprehensive

Lore should be comprehensive. And that doesn't mean including the details of every plant and planet diameter there is. Basic info, like what type of planet it is, who lives there. What kind of people. What kind of industry. Are they at war? What's their history? The rest of the stuff isn't as important; you can create an encyclopedia later, if you want, but that shouldn't be your priority. It's something you do after the main story is done. And you don't force everyone to read through the encyclopedia to learn the important things about your game world, because most people won't have the patience to. Heck, I'd like to be able to refer to the wiki on-the-fly, while playing. But I can't, because it's too cluttered.

-Accessible

Accessibility. Again, the encyclopedia is presented before any useful information. The first thing you could do is create a layman's guide; something, a page or two at most, that gives you a general overview of everything that's going on in our universe (and not just generalities like "there are skrells and tajarans, also the syndicate", actual background stuff: what factions, planets, events, etc would everybody know about). Then, rework the wiki so it's less of a mess. Make sure articles are properly written, categorized, follow the same format. Add more pictures, because you have pages that are literally twenty paragraphs of text with no images, and that's just awful. If you make a list of planets, add a picture for each planet of the list, so we can find them quickly and have a way to differentiate them at a glance. Something like that. And please, separate encyclopedic content from what should be the main info.

-Engaging

Lastly, lore shouldn't be boring. A lot of the lore discussion I've seen puts too much focus on all of our lore being about the only possible and accurate outcome of civilization in roughly 450 years. And if you follow a single, linear path, and let it dictate all of your design decisions, you're gonna end up with a lore that's really fucking boring. We have anthropomorphic aliens that somehow look exactly like earth creatures, breathe the same atmosphere as us, and are at a roughly equal level of technological and social advancement as us. Newsflash: that's probably not scientifically accurate. And I'm not saying to take that out; that's good stuff. But you're setting the bar too high on the new things you're making: the question shouldn't be "will this offend some scientist in the middle of an underground lab somewhere in California?", it should be "is this f***ing retarded?"

For me, SS13 has always been one of these space-opera type narratives. You know, stuff like Star Wars, or Mass Effect. A balance of humor, drama, romance, action, horror, basically all kinds of stuff that's trying to draw in as many people as possible. And I get that lore team members might be more of the intellectual type. People that ambition to write complex space epics that chronicle the advancements and folly of man. But I feel like you're forgetting about your target audience here. We don't have the framework for that kind of stuff. SS13 is the story of the average Joe, going about his space adventures. Sometimes funny, sometimes sad. Sometimes a lot of things. But these facets aren't being represented here. Our universe is complex, but not rich. It's detailed, but not engaging.

Anyway. I don't know. I feel like if I had to bundle all of that under a single problem, I'd say that our current lore lacks heart. It lacks life, the creative spark of a bunch of people coming together with the desire to reach out and entertain an audience. Right now, it's just a jumbled mess of text and tables and figures, filling up pages and pages of paper. And I'm seeing that it could be so much more.

[Erik Tiber]

Okay, I have honestly not read absolutely everything in your post, but I need to write this idea down right now before I lose it.

We should take advantage of the wiki format for the wiki. I'd say scrap the current intro in background summary.

It should be written "This is where you are and what you do and the stuff most relevant." There would be hyperlinks within that description to various wiki pages, for people who are interested. Even if you only vaguely gloss over something in the background summary, you can still put in a hyperlink to that thing's page

As for not having to scroll through info about the astronomy of a planet, currently for many planets we only have information about their astronomy. We should add detail then add subsections on those pages. For example, there could be a subsection for what the culture is like, what the economy is like, and then what the astronomy is like for that planet. If you don't want to read about the astronomical details, you simply skip that subsection.

Accuracy and self consistency are the basis for the lore and are very much needed in my opinion, but you don't shove that stuff in someone's face. You should really work that stuff out, but leave it in the background and skipable. Let the player skip right to the meat. Hyperlinks and subsections let you do that, thankfully, so we should take advantage of them.

[Frances]

I actually have to disagree that accuracy has to be the basis of the lore. There are a few "100% scientifically accurate" sci-fi stories out there. We have talking cats. We are not one of them.

Lore is there to provide a background for people to roleplay on. Not to tell them how to roleplay. As such, lore should be interesting, and fun. The accuracy comes as a bonus, and as long as lore seems coherent to the layman, it should never compromise majorly for the sake of accuracy alone.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I have to say that I agree with everything Frances has said. I have found myself frustrated with the growing eldritch mass that is the endless scientific explanations and justifications for Z Y and Z. I honestly barely skim it, because it's not interesting at all. I've tried to argue this in the lore chat, but a lot is said and not a lot gets done.

And argument that I've brought up consistently is thus: A universe doesn't have to justify its own workings. Before (stupid) midichlorians, The Force was just... The Force. We didn't have anyone's enjoyment ruined or lessened because we didn't have The Force's scientific jargon beaten into our heads. Interstellar, the movie, suffers from this as well - it spends so much time justifying its own science as if they were terrified Neil Tyson was going to burst onto the set and demand to see their research, that it sucks people out of the movie.

I'm a lore writer and I've grown bored and disinterested with the lore that we have written. It's scientific jargon, and entire aspects of the lore are suddenly shat on when it's discovered to not be 'realistic', like the recent sudden controversy over Ahdomai being a binary star system.

The wiki is a mess, I don't know where we're putting everything (I've still not been told where to put the Warriors of Adrastos, the pirate faction that I made as an application of sorts to join the lore team.) and I can't navigate the wiki I'm supposed to help be making.

I've suggested that we condense things together and have a quick and easy format for even those unacquainted with the lore to get a quick idea of how stuff works, such as a reference sheet for another roleplay group I commissioned:

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=318337#p22267325

I'll be trying to push for the changes desired, and work to make the wiki (and lore) something people want to read, and can understand.

[Erik Tiber]

I actually have to disagree that accuracy has to be the basis of the lore. There are a few "100% scientifically accurate" sci-fi stories out there. We have talking cats. We are not one of them.

Lore is there to provide a background for people to roleplay on. Not to tell them how to roleplay. As such, lore should be interesting, and fun. The accuracy comes as a bonus, and as long as lore seems coherent to the layman, it should never compromise majorly for the sake of accuracy alone.

A degree of self consistency is important rather, and accuracy just helps with this. Most of the time, I just use accuracy as a creative inspiration, as reality is often stranger than fiction.

Anyway, I'm currently working on rewiriting the background information to be a more relevant and interesting summary of things people actually care about. What Nanotrasen is, what the Aurora is, what Tau Ceti is like.

I have to say that I agree with everything Frances has said. I have found myself frustrated with the growing eldritch mass that is the endless scientific explanations and justifications for Z Y and Z. I honestly barely skim it, because it's not interesting at all. I've tried to argue this in the lore chat, but a lot is said and not a lot gets done.

I don't understand how that's the problem. The problem I see is that we haven't actually gone into detail about the bits relevant to players. We aren't talking about the bits of daily life which are relevant to them. The problem isn't 'too much science', it's that we have little else done. We haven't fleshed out the parts most relevant to players.

 

And argument that I've brought up consistently is thus: A universe doesn't have to justify its own workings. Before (stupid) midichlorians, The Force was just... The Force. We didn't have anyone's enjoyment ruined or lessened because we didn't have The Force's scientific jargon beaten into our heads. Interstellar, the movie, suffers from this as well - it spends so much time justifying its own science as if they were terrified Neil Tyson was going to burst onto the set and demand to see their research, that it sucks people out of the movie.

I personally liked the movie Interstellar. I believe part of this is a difference in our personal preferences.

I'm a lore writer and I've grown bored and disinterested with the lore that we have written. It's scientific jargon, and entire aspects of the lore are suddenly shat on when it's discovered to not be 'realistic', like the recent sudden controversy over Ahdomai being a binary star system.

I haven't really heard much about this so far, so I'll be sure to discuss this in skype.

[Gollee]

The lore should fit the server, not the other way around; and though I prefer scientific accuracy, I know that the server comes first in all regards. I generally look at something and go, "Right, we need this, how can I make it scientifically viable?"

For example, I have some stuff lying around from when I got bored one day, and decided to write up something on the singularity containment field, to the point where it is perfectly possible scientifically, and looks pretty cool as well.

The one thing I am majorly against is the habitation of uninhabitable systems; quasars, pulsars, dark systems, super-massive blue giants. Anything else, if the community wants it, then it should happen, the lore is for them; they are not there for the lore.

[Skull132]

Self-consistency does not mean, include, nor exclude scientific accuracy. If you establish that Plasma does X, Y, Z, despite it being scientifically improbable, but stick to it only doing X, Y and Z, then you're consistent without being 100% scientifically accurate.

Also, there is one thing that the loreteam has always, always, always lacked: a mission statement.

"Who are we; why are we here; what do we want to achieve; how do we want to achieve it."

With that established, you should have a, finally, matching approach, and less conflict. Beyond that, consolidate work efforts. Okay, let's look at how a game is released (let's thing before the DLCs came about, so we're talking about expansion packs with actual sustenance):

2. Core game is released; it is a standalone item that creates, effectively, a universe
4. A series of patches is released to fix any mistakes in the initial launch
   
6. An expansion pack is released, sometimes a standalone, that expands on the universe, while remaining connected to the initial piece
   
8. A series of patches is released to fix any mistakes in the launch of the expansions pack
   
10. Repeat steps 3 & 4

 

Translate into lore:

2. Core mechanics of the universe and settings are explained (in our case, also the core-most worlds and races)
4. The core information is 'patched' as needed, and expanded upon
   
6. The world is expanded with a manageable chunk that ties into the core universe
   
8. The released chunk is 'patched' as needed, and expanded upon
   
10. Repeat steps 3 & 4

 

Alternatively, stare at this graph:

http://www.webserv.ca/images/developmentCycle.gif

[Guest]

Frances is onto something here. As already stated in the OP, we have loads of intellectuals and men/women of science in the lore team. Countless efforts are endured/wasted in an attempt to fill the worlds, systems, and endless reaches of spess with real life scientific justification so that someone doesn't look at bluespace and say, "This is fucking stupid, and it doesn't even make sense. What's the actual purpose for this?" Unfortunately, I feel as though we've done that with every little thing that's in the wiki. We've completely overloaded the pages with details that no one has even asked for. Planetary statistics, for one. On the Star Wars wiki, from Coruscant to Korriban, not one of the pages there even has these extremely in-depth statistics. What's the point? No one's going to read it, even if it's there to look like it's been thought-out, it really doesn't have a justification for being there. (No offense, Rusty, we love what you do.)

And there's another point right there. Why do we bother writing lore when no one really has asked for it? Specifically, lore is often influenced by the community or audience itself, if it likes the writing, then it will ask for more. I don't even think half of the typical crowd of the people who go on this server even realize whether we even have lore. Community participation is huuuuuge. The lore would do better if we had people asking questions about the lore on a daily basis, so that the lore team itself would be able to answer some reasonable questions for once and keep their weird thoughts focused on being helpful and not bugging everybody in the lore development chat. Being glib there, but anyway.

The point being. How can we expect people to acknowledge the lore if we don't even involve them in the lore-making process?

[Erik Tiber]

I find the planetary details and statistics to be useful, they'll have to be established at some point so they may as well be established now. Many of these details actually add to the character of the planets anyway. I see this method of making planets as no less valid than anything else.

Besides, we already have the details for most of the primary star systems, the majority of the work will be fleshing these systems out.

Will elaborate later. Got to go for a bit.

[SgtSammac]

Just to focus on a small clarification no one seems to understand.

Lowell = Mars

Mendell = Biesel.

[Frances]

Just to focus on a small clarification no one seems to understand.

Lowell = Mars

Mendell = Biesel.

This is another example of how poorly lore is doing on the communication front. For most of my time, Lowell was the one city everybody knew about - and it was on Biesel. At some point, I noticed the change on the wiki, and asked a lore member. I was told it was a typo, and that they had no idea why it was written that way.

You guys renamed the most important city in the lore, because a lesser known city had the same name. And you informed so few people that even the lore team itself wasn't fully aware of it.

You really should avoid changing major things unless you have a really good reason - constant retcons get really confusing (well, it might not happen at this point, given that everything in the lore is being moved around - but the Mars city should've probably been renamed). And when you make big changes like that, Announce them. Create a lore changelog, at least.

[Jakers457]

I feel certain writers lean to particular categories when developing lore. I feel there's some who love to write the science of it, some enjoy the history and others the culture (art, religion, politics.) And when they have to develop something out of their preferred category, they may loath the experience and end up with something forced, maybe a little clunky. So perhaps if the 'Lore Caste' could split up the duties, say for example, the Skrell planet could be developed by one guy while the other develops all the fluffy cultural stuff? I know it's the big issue, but perhaps it allow for the Lore Writers to find more enjoyment?

But I do think having a lay out something like:

-Species overview page

>History page

> Timeline page

> Wars

>Culture page

> Religion

> Arts

> Food

So that you keep the abundance of information which some people enjoy, but have them stem from an overview page that will be in place for those who just want to know how to play the species right. It could be adapted for planets and such too.

[Erik Tiber]

I feel certain writers lean to particular categories when developing lore. I feel there's some who love to write the science of it, some enjoy the history and others the culture (art, religion, politics.) And when they have to develop something out of their preferred category, they may loath the experience and end up with something forced, maybe a little clunky. So perhaps if the 'Lore Caste' could split up the duties, say for example, the Skrell planet could be developed by one guy while the other develops all the fluffy cultural stuff? I know it's the big issue, but perhaps it allow for the Lore Writers to find more enjoyment?

But I do think having a lay out something like:

-Species overview page

>History page

> Timeline page

> Wars

>Culture page

> Religion

> Arts

> Food

So that you keep the abundance of information which some people enjoy, but have them stem from an overview page that will be in place for those who just want to know how to play the species right. It could be adapted for planets and such too.

I think we could have pages on the various planets and groups, and there would be subsections depicting history and culture.

Timelines should be avoided when possible. Longer descriptions would be better. However, Ffrances ins correct n that flowery descriptions are a really bad thing, see the mess that is the current background summary page. These longer descriptions can be modeled partially off of the style of Wikipedia (See the intro section of the page for the 19th century, or see the history section for the article on the United States) , though less dry obviously.