[Resolved] General Staff Complaint

[Jetniss]

BYOND Key:

Jetnissan

Staff BYOND Key:

General Staff Conduct, not a specific Key.

Game ID:

I don't have the IDs for these rounds, but it's occurred over several rounds.

Reason for complaint:

I've had several run ins with staff here that have gone extremely sour. I've run Byond games, played Byond game, adminned for others on Byond games, and have done all of the above on non-Byond games. I'm not a stranger to staff, code, player conduct, staff conduct, byond staff conduct, or any of that. But what I find here is a really bad big-brother esque system that-- I don't know about anyone else, I just can't bring myself to agree with it. I don't know what word to use to describe it, because it borders corruption without quite being corruption.

There's like this, Knight Templar syndrome in a lot of the staff I've gotten mixed up in.

Evidence/logs/etc:

This is the latest thing to occur that I've bothered to log:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=38&p=82150#p82150

Additional remarks:

So, my thing is: I have two warnings from staff who have pulled me aside to talk to me, as if they were benevolent beings trying to figure out why I'm on the wrong path, and rather than have an actual discussion with me they feign the discussion to beat me upside the head with charges after asking for my testimony. If that's the kind of server this is, why waste my time by asking me for my testimony? If you don't care to understand me, or to seek out why I might've done something, then do't ask and just put the charges down so I know what I'm dealing with.

I've also been banned three times for ridiculous things (okay well two of them were ridiculous, the first was a disagreement that you can find in another thread), that were completely one sided attacks on my character after asking me "why" I was doing things. But no one cared why I did it, they only cared to ban me and get rid of me, and just asked "why" as if they needed to before they could hit the ban button.

Each time I explain why I was being talked to by whatever admin who PM'd me, I gave them my 100% honest story, with my 100% honest understanding of things, and rather than hear me out, try to understand my situation, and work with me to make a better and healthier game environment, protecting the integrity of the game-- they insist on instead nitpicking details to make you look wrong and bad however they can and as quickly as they can. Then they hit the ban button.

I was banned by Alberyk as a Malfunctioning AI for trying to help Orlando Wolfe set up the engine faster, and at some point after our argument I noticed he said "there were clear warnings." He not once took the time to think: "Well, the AI has to sift through 10 radio channels and a bunch of bullshit, maybe they were overwhelmed with chat or doing something, maybe they stepped away from their computer" -- none of this was reasoned. It was simply: "You tried to blow up the station as the AI, getbannedchump" before the round even got halfway done. When I was explaining that I was assisting, there was this message he kept sending that basically said "You need to adminhelp to try to blow up the engine" completely ignoring the fact that I was trying to help Orlando Wolfe set things up.

My situation had me also trying to help Security deal with some problem with the robotics bay, where the roboticst was destroying my Holopad-- there was just a whole lot going on-- and for a staff member to come in with their witch hunt, ask me why I'm trying to blow things up, and when I explain that I'm not, they just keep nitpicking small details to make me look like I am (TO MYSELF, I MEAN WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE IT TO IN A PM TO THE SUSPECT?), and then for that staff member to hit you with a ban. Come on, this is not healthy conduct for any server. This is not how you grow.

If anything, if I was to intentionally mess with the engine as that role, it would be to distract people from something else I was doing so I could go on with my antag responsibilities. But why would I blow up the whole God damn station as someone who is actually invested enough in this server to make topics about it and keep coming back. Stop trying to chase away your PB. Jesus.

And most recently, in that topic I linked above, I was dealing with Datberry who refused to acknowledge my character's attempts at self-preservation, nor my OOC attempt at self-preservation. He even went as far as to nitpick logs after everything was over to say "Well they used a stun gun and you used lethals so you're wrong." I don't know about the rest of you, but when people use guns on me in SS13, I don't stop to search the wiki or my memory for "Is that a stun gun or a gun," I'm too busy trying to dodge or retaliate. And I don't know about the rest of you who do stop to scan your memory and your wiki for lethals or stuns, but a stun is more dangerous than a lethal cause it instantly puts you out of the fight. A KO is worse than handful of bullets. You can survive a full magazine by finding someone else to help you, or by running/hiding or by treating yourself if you can. Hell, you can call for help on the radio. If you get stunned, you black out. The person who stunned you can do anything to you in the world.

If you check the Colonial Marines server, 90% of their combat mechanic revolves around death-stuns. And you mean to tell me you can nitpick a stun gun over a lethal and ban someone like that? You mean to tell me if I pull a stun revolver and shoot at people, and they shoot me in the head with lethals, I can get them banned for trying to kill me when I was trying to stun them to do something equally bad or way worse to them?

All of this is just to say:

Staff Conduct is consistently questionable here, I don't like it, I don't know if anyone else likes it or if they're too into their roles to ever actually have a run in with staff like I have, but none of it is good. I don't like being treated like I'm sub-human on this game, especially when I put a lot of effort into staying in character and RPing through everything, as opposed to LOOCing or just acting without "Me"'s and "Say"'s. Please, adjust/regulate this behavior and be more empathetic or something.

Or you know, don't. Whatever. I'll eventually stop caring and migrate I guess.

Edit:

When I found my other thread was moved to this forum, I also found this thread started by the RD who resulted in my latest ban here. I find it very interesting, with this thread active, that Datberry went through with whatever complaint this same person made. I am not surprised by whatever complaint that may have been made about me after they made a thread like this dealing with an actual antagonist. Seems like princess Syndrome. Unrelated, but. Whatever.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Hello, I'm the loremaster; the head of the lore development staff. You said general staff complaint but I think your focus is on administration and moderation? Not sure what I did wrong. ;(

If this is a general complaint about all staff, then what can we do to resolve the problems you've presented? It would be very helpful if you included your best visions for how to resolve the issues so the response from administration and your eventual rebuttal can be more productive.

[Scheveningen]

Hi, I'm nobody special, only a particularly important detail to note because I'm going into this, by going off of your information by your post and by your notes, but hopefully without too much bias in your case.

The post has caught my attention given the amount of examples, if not excessive in contrast to some things you made note of.

 

I've had several run ins with staff here that have gone extremely sour. I've run Byond games, played Byond game, adminned for others on Byond games, and have done all of the above on non-Byond games. I'm not a stranger to staff, code, player conduct, staff conduct, byond staff conduct, or any of that. But what I find here is a really bad big-brother esque system that-- I don't know about anyone else, I just can't bring myself to agree with it. I don't know what word to use to describe it, because it borders corruption without quite being corruption.

 

We apologize in advance if you had a bad experience with staff members. We do our best to be impartial yet equally empathetic enough to avoid getting into unnecessary altercations in adminhelps with other players, though that cannot always be the case.

As to the allusion to corruption, I cannot particularly comment on that beyond saying there's really no way to respond to that. Personally, it's a bit excessive to say an entire staff team is corrupt because you've had negative altercations with a few of our staff, and instating a system like you describe would require more effort than the majority of us are willing to put in in terms of enacting the draconian system that you describe. We do what we can to ensure community guidelines are being followed and community members are following them. Consequences often occur to those who are not following them, if that is alluding to corruption to you, I do not agree with that sentiment.

 

So, my thing is: I have two warnings from staff who have pulled me aside to talk to me, as if they were benevolent beings trying to figure out why I'm on the wrong path, and rather than have an actual discussion with me they feign the discussion to beat me upside the head with charges after asking for my testimony. If that's the kind of server this is, why waste my time by asking me for my testimony? If you don't care to understand me, or to seek out why I might've done something, then do't ask and just put the charges down so I know what I'm dealing with.

 

The charged language you are using is not necessary. The way you're going about describing your side of the situation makes it easy to mistake you for attempting to inflate the situation beyond what is factual and objective, given the amount of sarcasm and hyperbole here.

That aside, when we administer warnings, this is only when it is obvious that the player we are speaking to that is making a breach in the rules does not seem to comprehend what they've been told to follow, or they have been uncooperative/rude in general, or they are a repeat offender that needs additional reinforcement in informing them what kind of conduct they should be avoiding.

 

I've also been banned three times for ridiculous things (okay well two of them were ridiculous, the first was a disagreement that you can find in another thread), that were completely one sided attacks on my character after asking me "why" I was doing things. But no one cared why I did it, they only cared to ban me and get rid of me, and just asked "why" as if they needed to before they could hit the ban button.

 

The ban by Datberry and the ban by Megatron, I assume, are the ones you are talking about. While at the same time I do doubt if it was necessary for Megatron to hand out a dayban for the suicide in solitary case (since, honestly, you did present a reason why you killed yourself in confinement and if it were anyone else that were intent on giving you the time of day, I think they would've been much more lenient despite the warning), the main reason you were likely banned was that you had a warning 12 minutes issued prior generally telling you to avoid the unjustified self-harm. The detail that Megatron may or may not have considered you had a reason to off yourself in-character is something I'm not sure of is which.

The ban regarding Datberry is still being reviewed internally.

We apologize in advance, that is normally not how we do things.

 

Each time I explain why I was being talked to by whatever admin who PM'd me, I gave them my 100% honest story, with my 100% honest understanding of things, and rather than hear me out, try to understand my situation, and work with me to make a better and healthier game environment, protecting the integrity of the game-- they insist on instead nitpicking details to make you look wrong and bad however they can and as quickly as they can. Then they hit the ban button.

 

The ban applied by Alberyk was definitely fair (and the lifting of it one day after when you appealed was also fair), considering you are not a new player and it seemed neglectful that you as the AI left the emitter going to cause the supermatter to delaminate. The other bans I've already made comments about. We apologize again if you've had bad experiences.

 

I was banned by Alberyk as a Malfunctioning AI for trying to help Orlando Wolfe set up the engine faster, and at some point after our argument I noticed he said "there were clear warnings." He not once took the time to think: "Well, the AI has to sift through 10 radio channels and a bunch of bullshit, maybe they were overwhelmed with chat or doing something, maybe they stepped away from their computer" -- none of this was reasoned. It was simply: "You tried to blow up the station as the AI, getbannedchump" before the round even got halfway done. When I was explaining that I was assisting, there was this message he kept sending that basically said "You need to adminhelp to try to blow up the engine" completely ignoring the fact that I was trying to help Orlando Wolfe set things up.

 

Now we're getting into territory where you are not attempting to be cooperative and are throwing out slights on purpose. Whether this is because you're frustrated, or whatever else, generally not relevant.

You have pointed out earlier that you are not new to SS13, so it is not much of an excuse that you let the emitter pointed at the supermatter running. People who have spent years playing SS13 learn to focus their attention on the important things and filter out unnecessary info in the chatbox. It is generally hard to believe you were struggling with AI in that case, especially since your first notes date back to early 2015. I don't believe you mentioned it was an accident either that the delamination event occured, so it does seem like it's your fault for not communicating that before you got banned. People rarely get banned for accidents unless they avoid informing the staff that it was actually an accident. Saying, "Sorry, I wasn't paying attention and I didn't realize it was happening" goes miles further than most players would be humble enough to admit to.

 

My situation had me also trying to help Security deal with some problem with the robotics bay, where the roboticst was destroying my Holopad-- there was just a whole lot going on-- and for a staff member to come in with their witch hunt, ask me why I'm trying to blow things up, and when I explain that I'm not, they just keep nitpicking small details to make me look like I am (TO MYSELF, I MEAN WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE IT TO IN A PM TO THE SUSPECT?), and then for that staff member to hit you with a ban. Come on, this is not healthy conduct for any server. This is not how you grow.

 

Considering you seemed more caught up in issues not including the engine while the supermatter monitor was spamming that it was delaminating, and you probably did not do your best to communicate that whatever happened was an accident, I am not sure if the additional accusations are warranted if at all necessary.

I'd suggest cutting out the lecturing in your replies later on. You seem to just be throwing out a lot of patronizing remarks and expecting people to listen to you, and that by itself is not healthy communication. That is not how you grow as a player and as a person.

 

If anything, if I was to intentionally mess with the engine as that role, it would be to distract people from something else I was doing so I could go on with my antag responsibilities. But why would I blow up the whole God damn station as someone who is actually invested enough in this server to make topics about it and keep coming back. Stop trying to chase away your PB. Jesus.

 

We've had to deal with many malfunctioning AIs in the past that chose to target the engine right away without much escalation, the case seems much of the same given the timing and inconvenience of it, since it nearly killed the round progression as a whole. It is hard for anyone to believe it was otherwise in the heat of the moment, I would believe you if you said it was due to an accident in forgetting the emitter was still on. You wouldn't have been unbanned barely a day after if you hadn't verbally recognized the mistake you made, so I think you have more to learn as a lesson from this case than the banning admin does.

 

All of this is just to say:

Staff Conduct is consistently questionable here, I don't like it, I don't know if anyone else likes it or if they're too into their roles to ever actually have a run in with staff like I have, but none of it is good. I don't like being treated like I'm sub-human on this game, especially when I put a lot of effort into staying in character and RPing through everything, as opposed to LOOCing or just acting without "Me"'s and "Say"'s. Please, adjust/regulate this behavior and be more empathetic or something.

 

Staff conduct is indeed questionable, we screw up often but we try to improve often in the same respect. We are human beings, the lot of us. We don't make the mistakes on purpose, in the same respect we often make decisions that are not right and we have to correct one another internally so as to provide better outcomes for situations in the future. We do not learn much if we handle every case perfectly. Not to say that we intentionally go out of our way to do things badly, but we cannot be expected to things perfectly either, it is not a realistic expectation and we're constantly attempting to improve ourselves and each other in terms of conduct and dealing with cases on-server. We find it important to be able to build up each other in terms of our strengths and trying to also stifle our weak points so that we can deal with situations better and allow people to have a good time on-server.

You are not being treated like a sub-human, you just feel you are treated unfairly. Life is not fair, sometimes the rules are not fair subjectively speaking, confrontations with staff are not fair either. The important lesson as a player is to find ways to still improve on personal/player aspects, rather than looking for ways to blame the people who are only trying to educate the community members here how to be better roleplayers and also how to find ways to play the game without breaking the rules.

 

Edit:

When I found my other thread was moved to this forum, I also found this thread started by the RD who resulted in my latest ban here. I find it very interesting, with this thread active, that Datberry went through with whatever complaint this same person made. I am not surprised by whatever complaint that may have been made about me after they made a thread like this dealing with an actual antagonist. Seems like princess Syndrome. Unrelated, but. Whatever.

 

Even if Datberry has been doing their job wrong, you do not belittle and insult them, even if they are only trial staff at the moment. I do not care how frustrated you are, I do not care if you think the bans you've gotten recently are unjustified, if you have any semblance of empathy yourself, you would be choosing your words more carefully rather than discharging petty insults and writing this complaint with such libel and sardony.

There are multiple deadfalls you do not walk into when writing a complaint. You have snagged yourself into a few of them by now, do note that being insulting in a complaint makes your case weaker and easier to discredit, not stronger because of the words you've used to describe how frustrated you are. Consider what I've said, because having personal attacks levied against one's character is just as bad as a staff member banning someone based off of questionable judgement.

[Jetniss]

Hello, I'm the loremaster; the head of the lore development staff. You said general staff complaint but I think your focus is on administration and moderation? Not sure what I did wrong. ;(

If this is a general complaint about all staff, then what can we do to resolve the problems you've presented? It would be very helpful if you included your best visions for how to resolve the issues so the response from administration and your eventual rebuttal can be more productive.

 

The wording of my title might be wrong. I don't mean to say it's a complaint on all staff-- it's a complaint on the behavior I've noticed in staff members I've interacted with. It's not one staff member particularly, but I don't have names in mind right now because I never thought I'd be making a topic like this, so I didn't exactly stockpile information. I'm not trying to attack the staff or anyone individually-- I'm just trying to address the behavior I've run into several times now.

As for how to resolve the problems I've brought up-- if you asked me what I would like to see happen with this post, I'd like to see staff members read it, take it in, discuss it maybe, and be more reasonable when addressing players in game. I don't get a whole lot of freedom to play this server, and I've been banned 3 times now for things where I had no malicious intent, I wasn't threatening the server (except maybe the second time, and that was a bit of ignorance over anything else-- but the staff member insisted otherwise), and I was operating in-character. And it's really frustrating, because leading up to these bans are questions of why I'm doing ________, and when I explain, the admin or moderator or whatever who is messaging me basically goes "NO, THAT IS NOT WHY YOU'RE DOING THIS IT, THIS IS WHY."

And no, it's not in caps, and no, it isn't written just like that, but when you get down to it that is what they're saying. I keep dealing with scenarios like:

(This is all hypothetical)

"WHY DID YOU SET THE JANITOR ON FIRE"

"I didn't?"

"HE'S ON FIRE RIGHT NOW, WHY"

"I don't know."

"WHY IS THERE PLASMA IN THE BATHROOM"

"I don't know exactly, I was cycling it out."

"JANITOR TURNED ON A LIGHTER AND GOT SET ON FIRE, WHY ARE YOU MESSING WITH AIR"

"I'm not messing with the air, I'm trying to fix the upgrade some engie made to the bathrooms."

You've been banned.

Reason: Sabotaging air as Atmos to burn janitor alive. If you wish to discuss it go to forums

 

And this shit is not cool.

 

As to the allusion to corruption, I cannot particularly comment on that beyond saying there's really no way to respond to that. Personally, it's a bit excessive to say an entire staff team is corrupt because you've had negative altercations with a few of our staff, and instating a system like you describe would require more effort than the majority of us are willing to put in in terms of enacting the draconian system that you describe. We do what we can to ensure community guidelines are being followed and community members are following them. Consequences often occur to those who are not following them, if that is alluding to corruption to you, I do not agree with that sentiment.

 

When I allude to corruption-- I used Knight Templar as an example. I'm sorry if the corruption word rose a red flag-- but I immediately followed up with a comment saying that woudn't be the right word. It's just this officer syndrome where an officer views any potential rule breaker as less than human, and that person or their situation does not matter-- and they get treated as less than. It's not "abuse," but it's a form of corruption that I'm really bad at explaining right now. Abusive jailer? Insensitive jailer? I don't know.

 

So, my thing is: I have two warnings from staff who have pulled me aside to talk to me, as if they were benevolent beings trying to figure out why I'm on the wrong path, and rather than have an actual discussion with me they feign the discussion to beat me upside the head with charges after asking for my testimony. If that's the kind of server this is, why waste my time by asking me for my testimony? If you don't care to understand me, or to seek out why I might've done something, then do't ask and just put the charges down so I know what I'm dealing with.

The charged language you are using is not necessary. The way you're going about describing your side of the situation makes it easy to mistake you for attempting to inflate the situation beyond what is factual and objective, given the amount of sarcasm and hyperbole here.

 

I want to note that I wasn't using hyperbole here, nor am I using sarcasm. This is raw response to situations that have gone as stated. If it seems charged, I apologize, but I would ask that you ask yourself what has happened for me to even respond like this.

 

That aside, when we administer warnings, this is only when it is obvious that the player we are speaking to that is making a breach in the rules does not seem to comprehend what they've been told to follow, or they have been uncooperative/rude in general, or they are a repeat offender that needs additional reinforcement in informing them what kind of conduct they should be avoiding.

 

My first warning was for jumping in disposals-- I've never done anything like it prior, and I didn't know the length, extent (and I didn't even understand the multi-floor nature of this server) until that moment. And the moderator/admin involved said they had to do it after asking me why. Why did I do it? It was 2am, I was tired, and I had no idea the kind of ride I was in for. They said it was self-harm, against the rules, asked me if I read the rules, I told them I did, and then they proceeded to give me the warning. My whole thing is-- Why ask if you're just going to do it no matter what. Don't fool me into thinking you're trying to help me-- just drop a warning and tell me not to do that. That was the lightest of the situation I've encountered.

 

I've also been banned three times for ridiculous things (okay well two of them were ridiculous, the first was a disagreement that you can find in another thread), that were completely one sided attacks on my character after asking me "why" I was doing things. But no one cared why I did it, they only cared to ban me and get rid of me, and just asked "why" as if they needed to before they could hit the ban button.

 

The ban by Datberry and the ban by Megatron, I assume, are the ones you are talking about. While at the same time I do doubt if it was necessary for Megatron to hand out a dayban for the suicide in solitary case (since, honestly, you did present a reason why you killed yourself in confinement and if it were anyone else that were intent on giving you the time of day, I think they would've been much more lenient despite the warning), the main reason you were likely banned was that you had a warning 12 minutes issued prior generally telling you to avoid the unjustified self-harm. The detail that Megatron may or may not have considered you had a reason to off yourself in-character is something I'm not sure of is which.

 

I thank you for this response. I thought it was crazy, but in the end I accepted it. This isn't so much a complaint about those bans although they are used.

 

The ban regarding Datberry is still being reviewed internally.

We apologize in advance, that is normally not how we do things.

 

Thank you.

 

Each time I explain why I was being talked to by whatever admin who PM'd me, I gave them my 100% honest story, with my 100% honest understanding of things, and rather than hear me out, try to understand my situation, and work with me to make a better and healthier game environment, protecting the integrity of the game-- they insist on instead nitpicking details to make you look wrong and bad however they can and as quickly as they can. Then they hit the ban button.

 

The ban applied by Alberyk was definitely fair (and the lifting of it one day after when you appealed was also fair), considering you are not a new player and it seemed neglectful that you as the AI left the emitter going to cause the supermatter to delaminate. The other bans I've already made comments about. We apologize again if you've had bad experiences.

 

Ok.

 

I was banned by Alberyk as a Malfunctioning AI for trying to help Orlando Wolfe set up the engine faster, and at some point after our argument I noticed he said "there were clear warnings." He not once took the time to think: "Well, the AI has to sift through 10 radio channels and a bunch of bullshit, maybe they were overwhelmed with chat or doing something, maybe they stepped away from their computer" -- none of this was reasoned. It was simply: "You tried to blow up the station as the AI, getbannedchump" before the round even got halfway done. When I was explaining that I was assisting, there was this message he kept sending that basically said "You need to adminhelp to try to blow up the engine" completely ignoring the fact that I was trying to help Orlando Wolfe set things up.

 

Now we're getting into territory where you are not attempting to be cooperative and are throwing out slights on purpose. Whether this is because you're frustrated, or whatever else, generally not relevant.

You have pointed out earlier that you are not new to SS13, so it is not much of an excuse that you let the emitter pointed at the supermatter running. People who have spent years playing SS13 learn to focus their attention on the important things and filter out unnecessary info in the chatbox. It is generally hard to believe you were struggling with AI in that case, especially since your first notes date back to early 2015. I don't believe you mentioned it was an accident either that the delamination event occured, so it does seem like it's your fault for not communicating that before you got banned. People rarely get banned for accidents unless they avoid informing the staff that it was actually an accident. Saying, "Sorry, I wasn't paying attention and I didn't realize it was happening" goes miles further than most players would be humble enough to admit to.

 

I have notes from 2015? That is interesting.

I don't know what delamination is to be honest. I'm not new to SS13, and prior to these last couple months I haven't played it in an at least a year, maybe two. But I've never played servers with a super matter engine-- they all used singularity engines. (I might've popped in here once in 2015 and walked around a little, but for the most part if I was playing SS13 in 2015 I was playing Colonial Marines or running a server for my RP community). I did explain when asked that I did not know the crystal could explode, and I explained I was trying to help Orlando Wolfe set it up-- and the reason the emitter was turned on was because my thought process was--

"If the power dies, I die. If engine doesn't get up soon, I might not survive. The engie is going to take a while grabbing phoron, and then he has to wait for the crystal to be shot a ton of times. If I shoot it now, we save time."

I explained that to Alberyk when he questioned me, and he basically said "That's not how it worked" and I don't remember word for word what he said, but it basically went along the lines of "You are trying to blow us up and that's against the rules" which I construed as "You're lying, your story doesn't matter." I explained to him that it was not my intention and that I didn't know the danger of it-- and at some point he mentioned there were clear warnings. Which I honestly missed because I was filtering out extra stuff. I was paying attention to red text-- Security Radio and Adminhelps, and then after I was banned I noticed Engineering radio alerts about integrity 45% or something like that.

 

My situation had me also trying to help Security deal with some problem with the robotics bay, where the roboticst was destroying my Holopad-- there was just a whole lot going on-- and for a staff member to come in with their witch hunt, ask me why I'm trying to blow things up, and when I explain that I'm not, they just keep nitpicking small details to make me look like I am (TO MYSELF, I MEAN WHO ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE IT TO IN A PM TO THE SUSPECT?), and then for that staff member to hit you with a ban. Come on, this is not healthy conduct for any server. This is not how you grow.

 

Considering you seemed more caught up in issues not including the engine while the supermatter monitor was spamming that it was delaminating, and you probably did not do your best to communicate that whatever happened was an accident, I am not sure if the additional accusations are warranted if at all necessary.

 

I never mentioned to Alberyk that I was trying to deal with the situation with security at the time-- but that's because I was answering the questions he was pointing at me and defending myself. He was insinuating a lot of things in his PMs, and I was telling him "stop insinuating that stuff, I wasn't doing that," and before we could really get to a part where I explained things I was banned. And this wasn't a case of trying to end the situation so a new round can start, because this was between 30-60 minutes into the round. I was miffed because I didn't get a chance to fully experience my first malfunctioning AI round.

 

I'd suggest cutting out the lecturing in your replies later on. You seem to just be throwing out a lot of patronizing remarks and expecting people to listen to you, and that by itself is not healthy communication. That is not how you grow as a player and as a person.

 

Erm, sorry if it's coming off that way? I am not in the right head-space to identify those if you could quote one for me to point it out I'll adjust. If you're talking about my parenthetical comments those are usually mostly written as frustrated commentary, and when writing I don't really have malicious intent, I just feel the need to punctuate with my own one-sided feelings because... Well, I don't know I'm human.

 

If anything, if I was to intentionally mess with the engine as that role, it would be to distract people from something else I was doing so I could go on with my antag responsibilities. But why would I blow up the whole God damn station as someone who is actually invested enough in this server to make topics about it and keep coming back. Stop trying to chase away your PB. Jesus.

 

We've had to deal with many malfunctioning AIs in the past that chose to target the engine right away without much escalation, the case seems much of the same given the timing and inconvenience of it, since it nearly killed the round progression as a whole. It is hard for anyone to believe it was otherwise in the heat of the moment, I would believe you if you said it was due to an accident in forgetting the emitter was still on. You wouldn't have been unbanned barely a day after if you hadn't verbally recognized the mistake you made, so I think you have more to learn as a lesson from this case than the banning admin does.

Alright, fair enough. I didn't take the time to think you guys had a recurring problem with that. I've been through a lot already so my reasoning scores has taken a few hits by then. It wouldn't even be fair for me to say "I forgot it," I did but-- I made no attempt to remember it was on. It was fully my thought that I just needed to make everything convenient for the Engie who was working there, and he would turn it off when he needed it (I know he saw it, he stared at it twice). But yeah, it was more of, "Okay I did all I could to help him, it's in his hands now, why the fuck is my holopad broken and what the fuck is going on in science right now... This might be a good time to steal some more APCs."

 

 

 

Staff conduct is indeed questionable, we screw up often but we try to improve often in the same respect. We are human beings, the lot of us. We don't make the mistakes on purpose, in the same respect we often make decisions that are not right and we have to correct one another internally so as to provide better outcomes for situations in the future. We do not learn much if we handle every case perfectly. Not to say that we intentionally go out of our way to do things badly, but we cannot be expected to things perfectly either, it is not a realistic expectation and we're constantly attempting to improve ourselves and each other in terms of conduct and dealing with cases on-server. We find it important to be able to build up each other in terms of our strengths and trying to also stifle our weak points so that we can deal with situations better and allow people to have a good time on-server.

You are not being treated like a sub-human, you just feel you are treated unfairly. Life is not fair, sometimes the rules are not fair subjectively speaking, confrontations with staff are not fair either. The important lesson as a player is to find ways to still improve on personal/player aspects, rather than looking for ways to blame the people who are only trying to educate the community members here how to be better roleplayers and also how to find ways to play the game without breaking the rules.

 

I thank you for this response. I've been getting the shit end of the stick a lot in a short amount of time-- and this is not something that happens often. Operating free of staff and within rules is effortless wherever I go, and the consistency and the rate at which I've had these run ins have been getting to me (on top of the antag shit end where every round feels like I'm just being shut out now-- Play antag, getfuk'd, play non-antag, getban'd-- And I know it's not that serious and I'm not facing 100 bans! This is just the feeling that's rising up. Not trying to start something. Just expressing. Promise).

 

Even if Datberry has been doing their job wrong, you do not belittle and insult them, even if they are only trial staff at the moment. I do not care how frustrated you are, I do not care if you think the bans you've gotten recently are unjustified, if you have any semblance of empathy yourself, you would be choosing your words more carefully rather than discharging petty insults and writing this complaint with such libel and sardony.

 

My comment here wasn't really meant to attack Datberry-- or anyone. When I made it, I figured anyone reading this topic might be reading my unban request, as the comment was more pertinent to that. I just needed the topic to be pointed out-- not because I think Datberry is bad. I'm not saying that. I don't believe Datberry is a bad staff (although I do wish I didn't have to deal with nitpick evidence in my unban request), I was more focused on the person who made the topic. That person is the same RD who assaulted me and made the complaint on me that got me banned in the first place-- and their topic shows that they have a habit of printing themselves weapons/whatever and using flashes on people unprovoked-- and when people retaliate on them for it, they complain and try to get them banned. In that instance, Datberry sided with the antag-- but in my instance(I assume cause I wasn't an antag) (s)he sided with the RD.

It's not really pertinent to this topic at all, as I said "It's unrelated, whatever."

And when I said princess syndrome, it wasn't targeted at Datberry it was targeted at the poster-- Which is still an attack on someone's character I guess, but if assessing someone's behavior is an attack I'm probably going to do it anyways. I'm sorry I included it-- I just needed it to be pointed out for staff eyes, and I didn't think it appropriate for my ban topic.

Onto more productive things however,

I thank you guys for your response. This feels like a way better staff interaction than what I run into in-game. I've already explained what I go through in game, and I've shared my feelings and raw reactions to what I experience in game already-- so I won't waste time repeating it here at the end of this post.

I just want this response here, this give and take, actual discussions in game-- in round. Usually I get-- Well, look at the unban topic with Datberry. It usually looks like that. Except, it's usually for something smaller than self-defense against HoS.

[Garnascus]

For starters it appears the ban appeal you linked actually ended in your favor and datberry apologizes for how he handled your issue. Datberry is still on trial but mistakes are still mistakes. You have mentioned alberyk specifically here so ill have him post his thoughts. Not_megatron was also reprimanded for his coarse language while dealing with one of your original bans over a suicide. Also i will check through the unban appeals you made for logs.

[Garnascus]

So in summary at least two of your points are completely valid and we have taken steps to ensure they do not happen again. The points being the way datberry handled your issue and the way not_megatron spoke to you. Datberry issued you an apology on the unban appeal and we have have given a lecture to mega. I think alberyk's communication with you is a little more reasonable though. Its not really an excuse but we deal with a lot of engine saboteurs so some assumptions where probably made incorrectly. On top of the other experiences you've have had i dont blame you for being frustrated over that as well though.

Is that the bulk or is there anything further [mention]Jetniss[/mention] . I do not really mind the "charged language". I am just interested in the points you're making.

[Faris]

While Garn is primarily dealing with this complaint, I'll provide some of my own input on this. I feel you're justified to be annoyed over your recent interactions, while out of the three appeals/complaints two were at the very least partially in your favor, what happened did happen and had I been in your place, I'd have been bitter. We're by no means perfect people so mistakes do and will happen, but I like to think we strive to minimize it. I can't speak for the rest but I feel everyone else has the same way when it comes to conducting staff duties. I'm here to enable a game and a community that people can enjoy, I'm not here for some moral crusade or some community politics which place other communities.

I've read your thread a few times and I hope through this experience we'll improve, and I'd like it if you could post any other points you have to bring. Community input, honesty and critique is something I've always encouraged and that if anyone has anything that they'd like to discuss, that I'd like them to bring it to me or any relevant staff member to the topic in question.