1 dismissal [1 Dismissal] Hand Poisoning

[DrHobo]

Handling either phoron or uranium sheets should be dangerous, folks would definitely learn fast after a spell of phoron poisoning.

I don't think I've ever been harmed by handling phoron and uranium without gloves which is kinda crazy considering how dangerous both actually. So what I'm suggesting is having them like spined fruits that would deliver an amount to the bloodstream when picked up, while wearing latex or nitrile gloves would be like budget insulated gloves equivalent and basic force gloves being totally protective.

Would probably have to add to the in-game description of force gloves in that they should be for handling hazardous materials as well as for security cadets. Also would have to make spacesuits, radsuits etc exempt as they'd generally be resistant as well and it would be essential for miners to collect it.

[Diggey]

You are forgetting one VERY essential thing here

Aliens

a Vaurca can't wear gloves,period

and Vaurca don't handle posioning well at all,as a matter of fact they don't handle any kind of injury

stay strong buggos

but yeah,many aliens need specific made gloves for them,and while handling large amounts of radioactive or toxic material should in my opinion be of consequence I do not think making them immediate like spined fruit is the right way to go here

[Fire and Glory]

Aren't Vaurca rather rad resistant and literally sustained by plasma regardless of the delivery methods?

Shrug.

(Though Vaurca are not completely rad resistant so that could get very annoying very fast indeedy.)

There is not a difference between gloves that have been wire-cut and gloves that are made for whatever species atm, they're of the same quality thus aliens can easily obtain gloves of any sort.

Even if there was a difference I doubt it would be horrendously terrible, you can spawn with specially fitted gloves and if you didn't spawn with them well tough luck better go to cargo and order some decent gloves.

Not sure how I feel about force gloves being the only thing that can safely handle stuff, they're already powerful combat tools so I am leery of the idea of handing them out to do anything else other than combat.

I have wondered why uranium is totally fine until after you make a wall out of the stuff and then it's bad news.

[Munks]

The fact that force gloves are dangerous are an argument FOR people other than Security and Science being able to get them. They'd be industrial equipment. Industrial equipment is dangerous. If a Chief Engineer can be wrangled into being attentive enough to keep some sort of accountability and control on them then by all means; but applying some sort of industrial use to them so that non-scientists, non-security, and non-cargo technicians-who-take-the-job-just-to-loot-the-warehouse-of-contraband can get a hold of a pair would be a good thing. Scientists and Security shouldn't be the only two people getting dangerous shit and it makes perfectly good IC sense that Engineers would be able to get an item like this that by all means would drastically improve their job performance (it actually shouldn't have taken a suggested feature for this to be the case).

[Fire and Glory]

I'll rephrase then, force gloves are cheesy and I do not want to see them show up in the game even more.

I do not care about people getting dangerous items that kill and mutilate, that's Fine, there is already a ton of jobs that can easily kill someone if it wasn't gank.

Force gloves however specialize in shutting down shit, non-lethally and easily, a dangerous item needs some consideration before being applied, force gloves can be applied anywhere with little lasting consequence.

Force gloves are not always dangerous and that's the problem.

It also just seems kinda odd to me that you need these wacky strength multiplier gloves if you would want to handle dangerous materials that have no need of strength being multiplied.

[DrHobo]

Yeah Vaurca need phoron to live, it's in the k'ois they eat. It would be more nutritious for them to handle it without gloves while they'll probably be more resistant to uranium. Cyborgs would be able to move it about fine or just boxing it to move would work.

I am saying other gloves would work like a budget version, I imagine force gloves like force field gloves rather than force multiplier because in science they're easier to get than latex and look classy. They would be the best for handling it if it was a protective force field. It may get annoying having to be careful to touch it but would be more realistic as if somebody like an assistant were to run about with 50kg of uranium without any form of protection, their hair would fall out and they'd get poisoned. It's common knowledge that handling it with bare hands is dangerous, causing burns and genetic damage while latex or nitrile aren't all that protective against radioactive materials. It may get annoying but that's just life, it isn't suppose to be safe and I'm sure a few u of phoron in the bloodstream will promote a quick learning curve. The alternative is a whole new glove for handling hazardous materials, like big elbow length bastards or something. I'm no spriter but recycling the force glove and tweaking it's description is an easy option. The spined fruit idiea would just be a means to initially implement a contact poisoning system for hazardous materials, as grinding the sheets gives an equivalent liquid volume that could be detracted with sustained exposure. The amount delivered would be a lot less and absorbed over time while in hand. I was just inspired when I picked up a spined tomato in xenoflora and thought what if it was a kois? Having 50 sheets of phoron instantly absorbed is crazy, don't worry. Even if it was just a percentage or constant volume that was absorbed every time it was moved hands without protection would work.

I tested the basic force gloves with another scientist (Reina? I forget the spelling) on a couple monkeys and other than the whole super-shoving being hilarious, they're not all that dangerous healthwise unless you just go full rage on a monkey but going full rage with a screwdriver to the eyes is probably more deadly and it's a lot easier to find screwdrivers. Security still stops scientists that leave research wearing them and I think they could be used as industrial equipment and used in a controlled manner. Throwing objects greater distances can be useful for cargo and they may also traffic in phoron or uranium. I just think it's a general technology of superglove with many uses on a station full of dangerous things rather than just sec only, they get flashes, pepperspray, handcuffs, flashbangs, stunbatons and an actual armoury of gear that only the incredibly robust or incredibly stupid would go up against with just a pair of basic force gloves. If they saw a perp in force gloves then they could use the taser.

The strength modifier would actually make sense given the weights of the sheet, with each sheet being 1000cm3 or a kg. So throwing about 50kg stacks of processed sheet metals with ease across a room without them would be crazy and probably not covered by either Manual Handling or Health & Safety.

[Fire and Glory]

I imagine force gloves like force field gloves rather than force multiplier

I imagine it's more like space magic in and around your gloves that makes your grip tighter and your motions harder/faster, so we're at a standoff on this point because nothing says either of us are wrong.

To be honest I feel like regular gloves might be fine, it would discourage touching the stuff with your bare hands like an idiot without inducing any rituals involving special gloves.

My comment about it being annoying is in reference to the fact that Vaurca cannot wear gloves and are not fully resistant to radiation.

The problem with force gloves is the grab, it enables you to easily wrestle someone into a neckgrab and by that point they are fucked, about as terrible and easy to use as flashes except there is nothing in existence that stops someone from getting you in a neckgrab compared to the various shields against flashes.

(Not to mention this suggestion would have an entirely different class of stationers wielding gloves as well as the other class with flashes, so that's even more people with instant win devices.)

This grab is perfectly harmless but incapacitating and any random Joe with the gloves can do it because "hey these gloves make me stronger", whereas you only stab someone in the eyes with a screwdriver if you're crazy or something.

As I said before, it is perfectly fine if you can easily use something to murder someone, murdering people tends to get you into shit ICly and OOCly.

But devices that can incapacitate someone without doing them any harm are a different thing entirely, it allows whoever possesses the device to deal with whatever violent person is in front of them quick and easy.

(If you want to kill security with glovess just target the mouth, walk up to the officer, grab, upgrade grab, optionally monologue in maint or something so you don't get banned, throat-cut/whatever murder method you like, and you're done. He couldn't've tasered you because you blindsided him and the rest of sec probably doesn't know anything is up either, especially if you turned off his sensors. But killing sec isn't my main beef with this stuff.)

Some other brand of gloves that doesn't have any enhanced grabs to pull out of its arse would probably be okay.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Uranium isn't inherently dangerous just pulling it out of the ground unless you're eating it or snorting it as a powder. Uranium is only ractioactive when you add heat and pressure - neither of which really exist in the vacuum of the asteroid.

[Guest Complete Garbage]

Honestly any non-latex gloves should be able to handle phoron. As for uranium, see JB's post.

But I'm really against this whole thing in the first place either way, as solid phoron is handled by chemists, xenobiologists, R&D kiddos, roboticists, engineers, cargo techs, and miners. Unless you're going to give them all phoron-handling-capable gloves at round-start, then you'd be failing to provide a role with what's basically essential protective equipment, and that's pretty fuckin dumb. And if you are, then what's the point?

Also, lorewise, isn't solid phoron somehwat stable? I mean, it isn't fentanol or LSD; I doubt that getting some on your fingers would poison you.

But that's just like, my opinion man.

[Zundy]

Solid phoron is stable. We make windows out of it IG.

[DrHobo]

So I think what I'm suggesting now is that handling uranium causes your hands to be uranated and could poison food if you don't wash your hands. Uranium is a systemic toxin and should be considered a hazardous material, the dissolved uranium compounds can damage the kidneys just like most heavy metals. The ore will contain only a few % or less but concentrated uranium is still dangerous, check out the Occupational Health Guidlines from the CDC.

https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0650.pdf

The more modern Safe Operating Protocols from the University of Nebraska, Lincoln and well just about everywhere that handles the stuff will also say to always wear gloves when handling uranium.

https://ehs.unl.edu/sop/SP_SOP_Uranium.pdf

I've been hoping to get a good round where miners actually bring uranium to research so I can do a toxicological study but haven't had the luck. I did do one on phoron I got out of kois bars, so 10u is a potentially lethal dose without immediate medical assistance (4u induces vomitting). 1u or less being absorbed when handling the pure refined could be no more dangerous than welding without goggles. Just because it is stable doesn't mean it's all that safe to an unprotected handler, it is a highly poisonous element (to non-vaurca) and is reactive enough to be a gas.

[LordFowl]

Phoron is stable in its solid form and uranium is largely harmless. Voting for dismissal.