Complaint against Jboy2000000

[kingmatt9]

BYOND Key: Kingmatt9

Player Byond Key: Jboy2000000

Reason for complaint: During the changeling round on Sunday 12/28/14, Jboy was a security officer by the name of Elizabeth Keener. Elizabeth found my character dead in the maintenance tunnel, with another character hovering over my body. Talia Pascal, was her name if I recall correctly. Security had a changeling in permabrig already, Charlie Dove, who was admittedly in there for bogus charges, which Elizabeth had lifted upon her. Talia Pascal was over my character's body, John Matthew, grabbing him aggresively. She immediately tazed Talia, and put her in cuffs. It was all well, until Elizabeth put the charge on Charlie Dove, another changeling, who was already in perma-brig for killing PROTOHUMANS. She immediately uncuffed Talia, letting her go. Another officer was in shock just from seeing her uncuff a woman that was grabbing a dead husk's neck.

[Jboy2000000]

I let Talia go because it made sense. You were all decked out in surgery gear, and Charlie was reported to have been doing surgery on your JUST before we brought her in. That gives her the perfect way to eat you, and it was reported she finished the surgery on you before leaving. I never saw she was holding you aggressively, there was no messages saying she was, none that I was at least, and a nurse checking a dead man's pulse seemed likely enough, and ICly, a dead person Charlie was working on in surgery was just what see needed to unboogufy the charges. About the "Charlie being in perma for killing proto-humans" I was already ahelped about the matter, and it was dealt with, with pump.

[Contextual]

That gives her the perfect way to eat you

 

You had no IC knowledge of the nature or purpose of changelings, other than the fact that you found one (1) husk that was never identified. 'The perfect way to eat you' holds no water IC as reasoning, because you knew next to nothing about anything.

[Jboy2000000]

Eat or not, I didn't use that IC, no matter what, he looked to be killed the same way, and he was last seen alive with her.

[LetzShake]

Molesting dead bodies probably warrants permanent holding until psychiatric evaluation, to be honest

[Susan]

I let Talia go because it made sense. You were all decked out in surgery gear, and Charlie was reported to have been doing surgery on your JUST before we brought her in. That gives her the perfect way to eat you, and it was reported she finished the surgery on you before leaving. I never saw she was holding you aggressively, there was no messages saying she was, none that I was at least, and a nurse checking a dead man's pulse seemed likely enough, and ICly, a dead person Charlie was working on in surgery was just what see needed to unboogufy the charges. About the "Charlie being in perma for killing proto-humans" I was already ahelped about the matter, and it was dealt with, with pump.

 

Let me explain to you exactly why you are wrong, and why you have failed completely in your duties as a security officer. Evidently you have no idea as to how police procedures or criminal investigations work.

You discover a murder scene, and someone standing over a corpse. Irregardless of anything beyond this point, this person is a person of interest. And, because of the lack of information at the start of an investigation, a potential murder suspect. You do not just let them run off without at the very least taking a statement. Okay? Okay. Moving on. There is more to security than brigging people on station. Those you arrest for crimes like murder are tried by a jury of their peers, and in that trial, evidence must be presented. What evidence did you find, exactly? The body looked like one (a non-crewmember, not murder) Charlie Dove presumably had killed before? The modus operandi was similar, and Charlie Dove was last seen with the victim, as told to you by the AI. Or was she? An officer told you all he saw Charlie escort the victim totally fine out of surgery and into medical.

So let's see what you've got so far. You have the suspect testimony of the AI and a similar MO. Can you say circumstantial evidence? All this means is that Charlie is a suspect as much as Talia, but it is not enough to charge, it is not enough to run through a trial, and the defense attorney would probably thank you for giving them all the tools for an easy acquittal. Instead of investigating the murder, what you in essence did was use shaky grounds and circumstantial evidence to place charges on someone you arrested illegally prior without actually looking into it at all. You could have done so many things. Cross-reference the time you had Dove in custody with the time of death of both bodies to eliminate her as a suspect. The body still had a mask on, check it for prints. You didn't even question Talia, you just let her go and completely violated basically every investigation procedure in the book while doing so.

So, not only have you utterly failed in performing your duties, you also arrested Charlie Dove for no reason. Let me expound upon that: You found an unrecognizable dead body in a body bag in maintenance. You questioned Charlie Dove and asked if she had genetics access, and if she made the protohuman. When she said yes to both, you placed her in the permabrig pending investigation. No. No. No. Murder is not an applicable charge when you cause the death of a protohuman. The only thing you could have even charged her with was neglect of duty for leaving a dead body lying out in the open. But you permabrigged her for no reason. You had no evidence she was connected to that protohuman. All you knew is she had access to genetics and created it. That is not even enough evidence to perform an arrest. So in your time as a security officer, you've arrested Dove for trumped up charges twice and failed to even investigate a crime scene properly.

You do not even have the authority to hold someone without placing a charge. While in reality, the police can hold you for up to 48 hours without you being charged, in station that is more equivalent to about ten or twenty minutes, maybe. So in essence, we have what I consider to be extremely poor security play by you, and also a high level of metagame which resulted in Dove being arrested on trumped up charges with very little investigation by you and the rest of the security team. As a career security player and someone who wants to have a future in criminal justice, I have to say that I am appalled by this entire situation and at the very least I feel it warrants a security ban until you learn how to properly behave in the role.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I joined as detective in this round, and while we had no CSI I took the liberty of taking a DNA swab from the corpse of the proto human (because the CSI was SSD and I assume detectives can at least run a swab through someone's mouth) and determined that it was, indeed, a proto human and not crew. Now, if the entire chain of events that happened did not actually happen, Charlie's arrest would have been voided and you could face charges of neglect of duty for arresting someone for the serious charge of murder based on trumped up charges.

[Thundy]

Hey guys, Charlie Dove here. Like to say that I DID gank King's character during surgery. This was explained to me by the fact that I put him under for surgery and then proceeded to eat him with no RP involved. I didn't know that was what ganking was and I am sorry.

That said, with JBoy meta-ing, I'm hoping that he won't get job banned, just that he can learn his lesson from all of this. It's not easy being sec, nor is it easy being antag and nether of us has our rolls or job down pat yet. We are all still learning.

I love Jboy and I love his characters, in every department. I talk a lot of smack in game and I am sorry, I'll try to curb this behaviour.

Cheers.

[Jboy2000000]

All right, there was poor wording on my part here, let me try again. I did per say "let her go," as much as unhandcuff while we sat safely in the tunnels after medbay was griefed. After it was safe to move, we took Talia to the brig for questioning. She was still a suspect, but she seemed less of a suspect than Charlie at the time, and she has a good reason for being by the corpse. Being a nurse, she wanted to make sure he was ok. And like I said, there was nothing that I saw that indicated she was in the middle of eating him, or even had a grip on his neck. From where I was standing in the situation, I could see murder from checking his pulse. Now, I didn't see what went on exactly when she was questioned, that was Kiwi and who played Ellis Somethingorother, because Pump started messaging me about the earlier Charlie event, which like I said was dealt with, and pump said he wasn't going to do anything OOCly to affect anything.

[Thundy]

She was still a suspect, but she seemed less of a suspect than Charlie at the time, and she has a good reason for being by the corpse. Being a nurse, she wanted to make sure he was ok. And like I said, there was nothing that I saw that indicated she was in the middle of eating him, or even had a grip on his neck.

I think what they are getting at is this: as a character, you shouldn't have ANY knowledge of changlings other then what your character picks up during the round. You, as your character, was using your knowledge of changlings to curb the outcome of the game.

This game is not about "Winning." It is about having as much fun as possible while playing within the rules. That can be really hard to create, especially as an antag. You have to RP on station while trying not to be caught by every single person that gets a sniff of your trail. It can be very difficult.

When I am playing, I try to intentionally let antags get away and blow up the station or suck my blood because A) its fun as all hell, B) It really is what my character would do, and that is essentially what roleplay is about, not doing the things you the person would do but what your character would do.

Food for thought.

[LetzShake]

I think what they are getting at is this: as a character, you shouldn't have ANY knowledge of changlings other then what your character picks up during the round. You, as your character, was using your knowledge of changlings to curb the outcome of the game.

Well, technically. Xenobio has some knowledge of changelings.

 

When I am playing, I try to intentionally let antags get away and blow up the station or suck my blood

 

Yeah gonna call bullshit here. Many times when there's an antag situation and you get the short end of it, you don't just get mad, but you complain in OOC. In this round in question you complained in OOC about being stuck in a strait jacket, and I've seen you do it before, including one particularly egregious example involving me personally where I was a vampire in a vampire round, and you said "Oh, it's a vampire round" as soon as you died, then later announced in OOC that you were dead, too. So you're hardly the poster girl for 'losing is fun'.

[Guest]

Well, technically. Xenobio has some knowledge of changelings.

Going to have to say a nope here. Your character has 0 knowledge on antags. The only person with antag knowledge is the Research Director. That knowledge is on the facehuggers. They don't know what they are but they do know the organs of a facehugger if they find one, because of Lamarr in their office.

I will post on this later tomorrow in regards to the complaint.

[Thundy]

Yeah gonna call bullshit here. Many times when there's an antag situation and you get the short end of it, you don't just get mad, but you complain in OOC. In this round in question you complained in OOC about being stuck in a strait jacket, and I've seen you do it before, including one particularly egregious example involving me personally where I was a vampire in a vampire round, and you said "Oh, it's a vampire round" as soon as you died, then later announced in OOC that you were dead, too. So you're hardly the poster girl for 'losing is fun'.

I do not know when this was. I am sorry if I offended you, I never meant to. I have tried very hard in the past couple of weeks to up my game in terms of my roleplay abilities and knowledge of server rules. I don't know when I said those things but I must say that I don't remember it and if it did happen, it probably happened a long time ago, back when I didn't know the rules. I didn't mean anything as a personal slight against you at all.

I talk a lot of smack in game and I am sorry, I'll try to curb this behaviour.

Please try to see that I am trying.

[LetzShake]

Well, technically. Xenobio has some knowledge of changelings.

Going to have to say a nope here. Your character has 0 knowledge on antags. The only person with antag knowledge is the Research Director. That knowledge is on the facehuggers. They don't know what they are but they do know the organs of a facehugger if they find one, because of Lamarr in their office.

I will post on this later tomorrow in regards to the complaint.

 

Well, there needs to be things more clearly written where the server differs from the established lore of the game. On the Identifying Antagonists wiki page, which, as far as I know, we don't have our own alternative to, this is written:

 

Changelings are not unknown, though no research or data has ever been collected from them. The threat they pose is unknown.

It is highly likely that only research members, specifically xenobiologists would know anything about them.

 

I don't think I or anyone else has a problem with our server diverting from standard Baystation lore and rules but given our game is still based on Bay and the Bay wiki is the first resource for anyone looking for information about the game, it should be very clearly written if that's the official ruling. That means, in my opinion, that making an Aurora Identifying Antagonists page should be a very high priority.

 

I do not know when this was. I am sorry if I offended you, I never meant to. I have tried very hard in the past couple of weeks to up my game in terms of my roleplay abilities and knowledge of server rules. I don't know when I said those things but I must say that I don't remember it and if it did happen, it probably happened a long time ago, back when I didn't know the rules. I didn't mean anything as a personal slight against you at all.

 

I should clarify, because what I said came off as harsh. I'm not angry with you over that incident. I previously had a low opinion of you because of that and similar things, but you seemed to move past acting like that and you're trying not to do it. But it was disappointing to see you go back to that. Control your frustration is all, or at least channel it to the right places. Not saying in LOOC "they just shot me while I was here on the table" when people come to investigate. You're right about it not being a game to be 'won' but that doesn't mean people are obligated to 'lose' on purpose. When you regenerate in front of people, in custody, you're asking to be detained or experimented on.

[Thundy]

Okay Shake, cool. You think that. I'm done on this thread.

[Valkrae]

Am I correct in assuming this thread is completed, and both sides have nothing else left to say?

[Valkrae]

Right.

Just going to mark this complaint as inactive, and archive it. If the participants want to reopen it, feel free too.