[Resolved] Character Complaint - jmj99/Ashley Jaeger

[Munks]

BYOND Key: Munks

Game ID: bQi-bYP5 and preceding rounds

Player Byond Key: JMJ_99

Staff involved: Sleepy_Wolf

Reason for complaint: "Unathi killed my mother" gimmick that results in me getting antagonized by this Cadet every single round I encounter her, without fail. Since the first round I had to put up with this character, I've been consistently having to deal with her hostile attitude, stalking me through the halls, and picking fights, goading insults and demanding that I be arrested for harassment and slander if I insult her. This alone doesn't make sense as a character: If this person is so thoroughly traumatized by her ~tragic upbringing~ that she can't handle working with a Unathi without stalking them constantly and trying to raise shit and get them arrested, their cadetship should be over.

This culminated in the last two rounds: Before bQi-bYP5, she apparently was an changeling. Immediately once again stalking me through the halls, I manage to lose her and get to play the game for once without having to respond to her. She somehow manages to get another officer on her side, as well as a Vaurca who is following their orders and after gathering lethals they spend the latter portion of the round just wandering around, ignoring every other various antagonistic act around them, dedicated to hunting me down and killing me. They corner me on the escape shuttle, and in the middle of a large crowd of bystanders, all open fire in a failed attempt to kill me.

After her failed attempt that round, the next round Jaeger is once again a changeling. After spawning, they as usual follow me through the halls to where I'm keeping watch. While her friend is standing around watching, she transformation stings me into her and then then starts grabbing me, after repeated orders to get away from me I pepper spray her and she feigns death. On the spot, her friend and a nearby officer dogpile me and arrest me for her murder. Thus immediately, not even five minutes into the round, i am hit with an over an HOUR LONG brig sentence (this would longer than the round itself, due to traitor actions) for murdering her despite the fact that she got up moments after.

I asked her in LOOC if she was ever planning on getting off my back and she replied that it's not a grudge -- I'm just the first Unathi she sees. So it's an issue with her gimmick, that results in an unrealistically employed character; and an issue with the player itself that they think that "Unathi killed my mom" means it's fine to, every round she's aboard, follow me around, threaten me, and throw a fit and demand my arrest at the slightest provocation. Someone like this would be in therapy, NOT in a cadetship, especially when it's an actual officer she's repeatedly getting hostile with. Tragic backstories are one thing, but when it repeatedly results in me having to spend all round defending myself from her, its more like a metagrudge. I don't play this game just to have to constantly simulate being stalked and attacked by a mentally scarred kid, using every single antag role she gets as an excuse to hunt ME down and kill ME specifically because I'm the first Unathi she ever sees on round start.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation?: Yes, I ahelped, and Sleepy Wolf responded saying to write a complaint as it was continued conduct spanning multiple rounds.

Approximate Date/Time: 4SEP2017, around 2:30pm UTC+1

[Biabri]

Clarifying some things here:

There are worse character gimmicks that go unchecked for a start.

ATLAS exist, and they have as much employability as someone who keeps their Unathi hateboner to themselves for the most part...

I've not actually seen this 'Unathi killed my mother stuff' myself, and I was with her for the rounds you mentioned...

I was a changeling aloneside Ashley, being her companion officer.

The Varuca was turned into an Ashley.

We didn't spend the whole time wandering about ignoring other antag stuff, we 'broke' into the vault and ended up absorbing some people.

Now, we did not gather lethals. We had an ion rifle given to us and I gave her a gun. You were the one that had lasers. We were shooting you with rubber bullets, not amazingly effective against your hardsuit.

I transform stung you, as I did with a lot of other people, not Ashley. I didn't arrest you either, Ben did all that. I was a ling anyway, so even if I had, it would have been to back up a sister.

Sleepy was the Vaurca in question, and saw the events of the first round... I'm not particularly sure why they advised a report as they would know exactly what happened.

This seems to merit an IR more than a character complaint, in my eyes, though obviously using rounds that aren't her antag rounds would be better...

[Scheveningen]

This seems to merit an IR more than a character complaint, in my eyes, though obviously using rounds that aren't her antag rounds would be better...

 

It does not, given Jaeger was an antagonist during these two rounds.

[Biabri]

A character complaint in an antag round though, a round in which you behave so drastically different and your 'employability' shouldn't be called into question?

For those two rounds, Ashley Jaeger was not Ashley Jaeger.

[Munks]

A character complaint for someone who has repeatedly and relentlessly singled me out. Biabri, if you were only there for the antag rounds (which you were) then of course it won't make sense. I stated in my post, however, that this is just continued behavior from how she acts every single round, regardless of antag status.

Ashley Jaeger WAS Ashley Jaeger those two rounds: following me around and starting shit with me, because of her "lizards killed my mom so they must all pay" backstory. The ONLY difference is that she used her antag status to actually act on her threats, which on it's own wouldn't be an issue except for the fact that she constantly follows me around, threatens me, and tries to get me arrested even when she ISN'T antag. For all intents and purposes, her character WAS the same those two rounds, and that is WHY this is a character complaint.

[Biabri]

And yet a lot of the information on the complaint is factually incorrect or misinformed.

This can be cut down to "This person's character causes conflict with my chracter because of it's race."

Did you actually tell her to stop OOCly? The round in which this occured not counting?

You can't pretend that her justification is entirely wrong. There aren't a massive amount of Unathi to pick from. Aren't you one of the people that believe you should be able to escalate with Guwans far faster though...? You chose to be Unathi.

[Scheveningen]

For those two rounds, Ashley Jaeger was not Ashley Jaeger.

 

What justification did they have then, to specifically target the Unathi, if they were not Ashley Jaeger due to the nature of how changeling works?

Not that I'm asking you directly, because the only person that can properly defend one's own actions is the person being called into question over their conduct directly.

I see it as very strange to inject character motivations like that as a changeling, a lethal alien bodysnatcher whose only real goals are to infiltrate humanoid society and sustain themselves with a wide array of mutagen powers in order to further build up their own strength. They adopt identities and mimick sentient behavior patterns in order to fit in. They are not the person whose identity they are adopting. A changeling has at least committed one or more murders in order to get where they are. That is the either fluff of how changeling works, they are a malicious genestealer. They are not a typical character.

JMJ99 occupied a large portion of their round just spamming transform sting and not particularly providing anything further than that, while the rest of the station was going to hell due to traitors sabotaging the engine and other lings releasing N2O into the atmosphere.

[Munks]

I do not stalk guwans through the halls. I do not escalate fights with them, nor do I demand their arrest every given opportunity. So your comparison isn't very good.

Characters who so much as LOOK at a Guwan the wrong way get punished by IRs from any who so much as witness it. Every single round jmj uses their character's tragic backstory!!! to literally follow me everywhere, picking fights, looking for a reason to fight and get me arrested. I have literally never seen a Guwan treated like this, and if they did, they'd have an IR on them by the end of the round and get kicked out of the job.

Did I ask her to stop except for the round where I specifically asked her to stop? Does her excuse of singling me out on a roundly basis because I'm the Unathi she sees when spawning only count for one? You accuse me of being misinformed but here you are just defending your friend while only having witnessed one round of it.

[Biabri]

Two rounds... I've also not seen Ashley do this at all. Calling her my friend... We've been antags together and it was fun.

I don't recall Jaeger doing any transformation stings. She sent me her DNA and told me to spread it, but now we're blurring rounds together.

At the start of the round, me and Jaeger agreed that we were going to get rid of the rest of sec. We did so and your Unathi was the only one remaining to our knowledge, we didn't count the cadet as a threat or they joined later.

Sorry, Munks? Was that an "I asked her to stop" or was it not?

Your statements are misinformed, straight up. Re-read what you've written and read my clarifications. I'm not 'defending my friend' I am telling you that the majority of your complaint is factually incorrect.

[whiterabit]

Funnily enough, I've seen Jaeger stalking my own unathi character throughout the halls on a few occasions. I wasn't aware that it was a recurring thing, but in my experience, Jaeger does like to use the "fucking liggers killed my mother" to start shit. However, my only experiences with it have been during their bouts as traitor, which I think should give some leniency to the behavior. Whether or not they actually act in the same manner during any canon interaction is another story.

While I personally think the whole interaction is pretty lazy, so long as it's kept to antag activity I don't really see it being a great problem.

[Munks]

Two rounds... I've also not seen Ashley do this at all. Calling her my friend... We've been antags together and it was fun.

I don't recall Jaeger doing any transformation stings. She sent me her DNA and told me to spread it, but now we're blurring rounds together.

At the start of the round, me and Jaeger agreed that we were going to get rid of the rest of sec. We did so and your Unathi was the only one remaining to our knowledge, we didn't count the cadet as a threat or they joined later.

Sorry, Munks? Was that an "I asked her to stop" or was it not?

Your statements are misinformed, straight up. Re-read what you've written and read my clarifications. I'm not 'defending my friend' I am telling you that the majority of your complaint is factually incorrect.

 

Two rounds. So you are NOT qualified to speak on how she's been acting around me for days now.

[Biabri]

Hrm?

No, I said I'd witnessed two rounds of your Unathi interacting with Ashley in a negative way.

I play a lot of sec now...

[JMJ_99]

Firstly, When shes a non Antag; she takes her medication and does her job; 9 times out of ten she only does something if they start it first. Secondly, Yes I understand I overuse the "unathi killed my mother" gimmic on antag, Like I said you're just the Unathi I see most often(and as Biabri said you choose to play unathi); I will try to find other gimmicks and try to use this one less often. Lastly I did not have Transformation sting for either changling rounds so that section is factually incorrect, all I did was Cast Ashley's DNA and you should recall I asked multiple times in processing for you to get released on that second round. I've only been Changling 3 times in my 1 and a half years of playing SS13 so I wasn't acting entirely like a changling but I wasn't acting entirely like Jaeger due to confusion on Changlings. Yes I targeted you in the first changling round; That was not due to backstory, Me and Biabri both agreed on absorbing all of security if we could

[Munks]

Firstly, When shes a non Antag; she takes her medication and does her job; 9 times out of ten she only does something if they start it first.

Blatantly incorrect. Ten times out of ten you follow me out of the spawn room in Sec, stare at me the entire time I gear up, hurry up and grab your stuff and then head out after me. Walk after me until you get the chance to talk, and start muttering in a different language. Silently stand there and stare at me, wait until I say something like "What do you want woman?" And then you fly off the handle with your "CALL ME A FUCKING WOMAN AGAIN AND I'M GOING TO FUCKING GET A WARRANT TO ARREST YOU FOR HARASSMENT". Rinse and repeat until you finally get an excuse to try and get physical. Your character is nonfunctional. If you require medicine for basic functionality, your character should not be working Security. And when she does this on a shiftly basis, her cadetship should be over. Character complaint.

 

(and as Biabri said you choose to play unathi)

Guwan players choose to play guwans. Nonetheless, whenever mistreatment of a guwan goes beyond being rude to them in the halls, they get IRs. Regardless of it being an IC form of complaints, people still have to make the conscious decision that being unreasonably hostile to a guwan is conduct worth discouraging through threat of having their character forcibly changed and possibly fired or unusable. The same goes for misogyny; Unathi in character treat women like property. My response to this could be 'if it's okay to do absolutely nothing but find an excuse to get me arrested because boohoo unathi killed my mom, then i'm going to return the favor and start fucking you over because you're only an object in my culture'. I'm not going to do that though, and we both know why. My character would be utterly destroyed in no time at all through IRs and IC "talking tos" and arrest/firing for harassment if I treated women the way the lore itself says Unathi are supposed to be treating them, and thats most likely why people are too afraid/unwilling to ever actually do it. If I don't get a free pass on that, even though they choose to play women, then you don't get a free pass to do what you do every round, regardless of your made up tragic backstory.

[JMJ_99]

Blatantly incorrect. Ten times out of ten you follow me out of the spawn room in Sec, stare at me the entire time I gear up, hurry up and grab your stuff and then head out after me. Walk after me until you get the chance to talk, and start muttering in a different language. Silently stand there and stare at me, wait until I say something like "What do you want woman?" And then you fly off the handle with your "CALL ME A FUCKING WOMAN AGAIN AND I'M GOING TO FUCKING GET A WARRANT TO ARREST YOU FOR HARASSMENT". Rinse and repeat until you finally get an excuse to try and get physical.

This happens on antag rounds,I get antag a lot. I haven't had much opportunity to develop her Canonly since my retcon; Which was done specfically to make her less violent towards other species(Are we seeing a pattern here? Antag Ashley != Cannon Ashley perhaps?). It never goes beyond "CALL ME A FUCKING WOMAN AGAIN AND I'M GOING TO FUCKING GET A WARRANT TO ARREST YOU FOR HARASSMENT" either. You're free to write an IR if she acts like this canonly which it wont since this only happens on antag rounds and I've already said I plan I finding better gimmicks

[Munks]

I'm not writing an IR because unlike IRs, which are for reasonable characters that act questionably ICly, player complaints seem to be geared more towards fundamentally problematic characters that aren't believable or realistic from the ground up. Ashley Jaeger is completely unstable, to the point of stalking and picking fights with her coworkers basically every shift. And now, if what you say is true and you think she's "fine" as long as she's on her medication, then I can't imagine what she's like when she's off, other than she would not be someone working as a Security Cadet (or having graduated and become a full OFFICER as you are now playing her) in such a high stress environment. She's crazy and she doesn't belong.

That's just my IC point of view, there's also the issue of me personally being sick of having to be the target of your repetitive "crazy girl who wants to kill teh unathi" gimmick every time I'm on.

[JMJ_99]

I'm not writing an IR because unlike IRs, which are for reasonable characters that act questionably ICly, player complaints seem to be geared more towards fundamentally problematic characters that aren't believable or realistic from the ground up. Ashley Jaeger is completely unstable, to the point of stalking and picking fights with her coworkers basically every shift. And now, if what you say is true and you think she's "fine" as long as she's on her medication, then I can't imagine what she's like when she's off, other than she would not be someone working as a Security Cadet (or having graduated and become a full OFFICER as you are now playing her) in such a high stress environment. She's crazy and she doesn't belong.

That's just my IC point of view, there's also the issue of me personally being sick of having to be the target of your repetitive "crazy girl who wants to kill teh unathi" gimmick every time I'm on.

Look, Canon Jaeger is literally nothing like Antag Jaeger; there is nothing about her that breaks OOC rules. I've turned off all antag roles for her now and I'll be playing her canonly for a while

[DatBerry]

I'm not writing an IR because unlike IRs, which are for reasonable characters that act questionably ICly, player complaints seem to be geared more towards fundamentally problematic characters that aren't believable or realistic from the ground up. Ashley Jaeger is completely unstable, to the point of stalking and picking fights with her coworkers basically every shift. And now, if what you say is true and you think she's "fine" as long as she's on her medication, then I can't imagine what she's like when she's off, other than she would not be someone working as a Security Cadet (or having graduated and become a full OFFICER as you are now playing her) in such a high stress environment. She's crazy and she doesn't belong.

That's just my IC point of view, there's also the issue of me personally being sick of having to be the target of your repetitive "crazy girl who wants to kill teh unathi" gimmick every time I'm on.

 

The issue seems to have been retconned already from the character's canon, and the ligger hunting gimmick was addressed as overdone and the player said they'll work on something else.

I believe that addressed all your complaint's points.

[Munks]

If it's been removed, then that's pretty much mission accomplished for this complaint. It can be closed.

[Scheveningen]

Closing this up if it's resolved.