[Resolved] Scheveningen Bias

[DaBurs]

BYOND Key: DaBurs

Staff BYOND Key: Scheveningen

Game ID: bQM-aAw8 - Added by Aboshehab

Reason for complaint: Scheveningen has given a completely bias and uninformed response to my ban appeal and I'd very much like someone else to look it over for me. It's completely unjustifiable what he's done.

Evidence/logs/etc: Checking the game logs for the round where the incident took place, or asking yourself, Alberyk explicitly gave me permission to use bombs during the round. And while not directly giving me permission, it was implied by Garnascus that it *should* be okay to bomb one of the bombing targets Scheveningen specifically complained about. The simple fact is, permanent bans should be handed out to actual minges and griefers. I asked many different admins many times and informed my partner in-game even of what my plans were for those bombs, I did not act randomly and out of the blue. Thank you.

Additional remarks: Locations of each of the bombs goes as follows:

1.) Janitorial trash chute room, where trash goes. Empty.

2.) The library. Empty.

3.) The hallways above medbay (I believe. Medbay itself was left undamaged, however the hallways and windows were). There were two people there, security officers who both escaped from the initial explosion alive (One officer dragged the second away from the explosion site).

Number of people gibbed/killed on impact by the bombs: 1. Myself. The last explosion which I applied to myself was to make sure attention was fully drawn away from the other changeling, who was also a scientist and had full access to the toxins lab. I did this in order to assure all eyes would be on me instead of him, as I was surrounded and capture was imminent.

Thank you.

Edited October 5, 2017 by Guest

[Faris]

Format please.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=36&t=22

[DaBurs]

Sorry, didn't see the format when I glazed over it. Editing now.

Edit: Editing finished.

[Alberyk]

I told you it was fine to bomb without much moviment and that would not cause massive collateral damage. You did the opposite from this.

Now, this is your third perma, you were unbanned after leaving bombs to explode in the main hallway as non antag, then got temporary banned due to nearly killing someone over a piano. Then you return and bombed a lot of places on the station with little purpose. I believe that the mod in question is not in the wrong here.

[DaBurs]

Alberyk, I'd totally agree with you if this ban was justified. But it's not.

I have the evidence on my side, if I really just wanted to cause drama I wouldn't have asked the admins at all. And even though certain areas got spaced, I did not cause massive collateral damage. I could have left three craters if I wanted, my bombs only broke the tilings and walls to some degree- and nobody but myself was gibbed.

If this ban was fully justifiable, and I was appealing for a shortened ban I would be in agreement with you but I feel this ban was uncalled for entirely.

[Scheveningen]

I could have left three craters if I wanted, my bombs only broke the tilings and walls to some degree- and nobody but myself was gibbed.

 

You did leave three craters. One giant gaping one in the main hallway, another to the side maintenance passageway to the library and yet another behind research.

This is not a first time offense. I warned you prior to the round in which you suicide bombed as a changeling 40 minutes into the round after detonating the two bombs in maintenance. That explosion was a size 24, whereas the other two were size 7s.

I'm not sure what you expected, you have a weekban administered by me seven months ago for similar behavior, and you come back and make the same characteristic judgement calls again. This isn't bias whatsoever. You have problematic history, a type of behavior that had evidently not improved in seven months at all, and the round before I calmly explained to you how to properly act as an antagonist, especially since the round before there were 2 other ninjas to help guide you and offer suggestions, one of them being "Do not go around killing people", interestingly enough.

It is not personal. I deal with cases with these on a regular basis with similar attitude towards it. The round before you were permabanned I even gave you leniency in the form of a warning until you showed the admins online you didn't deserve it.

[DaBurs]

Yes, we all know I've been banned before but I always accepted what I did was wrong then. Now is different, I just wanted to do the right thing and drive conflict in the best way I could think of with the job I was rolling with.

I think our definition of crater must be different, because I can make bombs capable of turning nearly the entire view distance into space but purposely held off on that.

Look, even if I messed up in the end because I misinterpreted the permissions the admins gave me, or admins misinterpreted what i was asking from them it wasn't with malicious intent at heart. Please know that. I could have struck the medbay, security and shuttles all at once and killed half the server if I really wanted to be a malicious, vile, game-ruiner.

I admit I have really hard times grasping what exactly antagonists are supposed to do. How they're really supposed to be storytellers, or how they go about doing that. I probably should have spent more time observing them and yeah, I wish I could but hindsight is 20/20. Look, I'm sorry I was frustrated in my ban appeal but I just wanted to express how I felt.

[Faris]

Alright so it's a bit of an issue when looking at your history. This isn't a single permanent ban incident but multiple, some of them due to extensive self antagging. You even had a warning on the same day for excessive violence as an antagonist. Now I haven't posted your notes since you preferred I didn't but I don't require it to make a judgement, but it's a transparency thing.

Moving on, Alberyk was very specific in saying it shouldn't be in high traffic areas or cause extensive damage to those areas. While your bombs may have been "tame" they still breached the station. Garn did say one spot was fine, but he didn't permit the rest of it. Round start also had a discussion with Nursie where they forbid you to use bombs in such a method early.

As it stands, I'm going to have to say that Schev and all involved staff in this are in the clear. You've got a history and were punished accordingly due said violation of the rules.

[Scheveningen]

I admit I have really hard times grasping what exactly antagonists are supposed to do. How they're really supposed to be storytellers, or how they go about doing that. I probably should have spent more time observing them and yeah, I wish I could but hindsight is 20/20. Look, I'm sorry I was frustrated in my ban appeal but I just wanted to express how I felt.

 

OK. One last chance then. I'll lift the permaban and apply an indefinite antagonist ban so you may still play on the server, once you reply and agree to the next set of terms. I want you to figure out if other antagonists' playstyles are what you want to base your own off of, to observe how they escalate their own IC agendas and how they create conflict. I do not want to make it seem like I'm setting you up for failure, so I want to give you a chance without necessarily giving you the means to tempt yourself into doing something you probably should've thought twice in doing.

That sound good or no?

[DaBurs]

Yes Scheveningen, that sounds like a really good opportunity to learn about how to properly antag without causing problems for other people. I agree to all those terms happily, thank you for letting have an opportunity to see how other antags drive roleplay appropriately so that someday I might have a real grasp on how to do it in the right way myself.

[Faris]

Deeming this as resolved. Locking and archiving.