Azande Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Ckey/BYOND Username: XanderDox Position Being Applied For Wiki Maintainer Past Experiences/Knowledge: - Lore Canonization Manager for Aurora Lore Team (which involved me working on the wiki too) - Wiki Manager for Exogenesis (dead serber now RIP) - Moderate understanding of Mediawiki formatting (a bit rusty since I haven't touched it in awhile) Examples of Past Work: Basically the same as above. I edited a few of the pages on our wiki a while back, and maintained Exogenesis' wiki while it was around, this made me familiar with mediawiki formatting. I do not have any existing examples, except perhaps unrelated forum posts of mine which I spend hours on to ensure they look nice. Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.): - Discord Additional Comments: I want to join the Wiki Maintainers so I can help with guides (primarily IAA) and keeping things up-to-date.
AllyBearsley Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 Hi I'll be taking some time to actually consider this application, carefully, over the next few days.
Azande Posted January 5, 2018 Author Posted January 5, 2018 Hi I'll be taking some time to actually consider this application, carefully, over the next few days. Alrighty. If you have any questions feel free to boop me here or on Discord.
Chada1 Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I'll say that though i've got in many arguments over some menial things with Azande in the past, I think they'd make a good Wiki Maintainer, they have a big focus on accuracy and detail (Even if that detail is ANNOYING) when it comes to procedure among other things. I think they'd make a good team member so long as they don't get into any arguments, which I don't see happening anyway, we're too busy fixing stuff!
Skull132 Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I requested a report from the admins/mods regarding Xander's conduct over the past month or two. Because I forget but I saw his name run through the mod chat at some point recently. In the mean time, allow me to express that I believe Xander to be unfit to be a member of staff, specifically due to his conduct. An example would be the fact that since September, I've needed to strike Xander on Discord once, and call him out on two other cases of him being belligerent towards members of staff. All three cases boiled down to him expressing his grievances with the decisions made by the Development team in a manner unbecoming; while ignoring reasonable explanations or his points proven wrong. And please do not think that this boils down to, "He attacked my department, plz no." There are multiple people on the staff team with whom I personally do not agree with. In just about all teams. But they keep their conduct civil, so do I, and hey it all works out. I doubt such a relationship would work out with Xander, however.
Azande Posted January 5, 2018 Author Posted January 5, 2018 I requested a report from the admins/mods regarding Xander's conduct over the past month or two. Because I forget but I saw his name run through the mod chat at some point recently. In the mean time, allow me to express that I believe Xander to be unfit to be a member of staff, specifically due to his conduct. An example would be the fact that since September, I've needed to strike Xander on Discord once, and call him out on two other cases of him being belligerent towards members of staff. All three cases boiled down to him expressing his grievances with the decisions made by the Development team in a manner unbecoming; while ignoring reasonable explanations or his points proven wrong. And please do not think that this boils down to, "He attacked my department, plz no." There are multiple people on the staff team with whom I personally do not agree with. In just about all teams. But they keep their conduct civil, so do I, and hey it all works out. I doubt such a relationship would work out with Xander, however. I definitely see your concern in this and understand it - Garn has a rule about me applying for staff (which is, that I can't), so I approached him about this application and he deferred me to Jackboot who then said I was free to apply. I don't know about what access to staff discords a wiki maintainer gets, if any, but my intent as a wiki maintainer would not to be to discuss lore, development, or the like, it would be to ensure the wiki is kept up to date as directed by Ally, Jackboot and the respective lore developers (although I believe they keep their special pages maintained themselves. I also have examples of staff members being belligerent when I haven't been, and even an example where a staff member shared something that boiled down to a text-description of child-sex. However, I wouldn't say either of the belligerent staff, or the latter staff member I am referring to are bad at their jobs or unfit to be staff. And I'm sure you're going to say that this is a logical fallacy, or deflection, but I believe it is not. I personally think that there are individuals who sometimes get very heated in a situation, and then calm down shortly after and that these people are genuinely decent, kind and competent individuals. My desire to join the wiki maintainers is so that I can help contribute to the server in a way that keeps me the most un-involved with other staff - because I understand that some of them and I have issues between one another, but I still want to support the server that I love and keeping the wiki edited and contributing guides seems like the easiest, least-involved way to do such.
Skull132 Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 I don't know about what access to staff discords a wiki maintainer gets, if any, but my intent as a wiki maintainer would not to be to discuss lore, development, or the like, it would be to ensure the wiki is kept up to date as directed by Ally, Jackboot and the respective lore developers (although I believe they keep their special pages maintained themselves). They get Discord access for staff, and they still represent us as a member of their team. So basically, regardless of your intent, your conduct will become an issue if it continues to be as it has been. I also have examples of staff members being belligerent when I haven't been, Not the object of this thread. Staff complaint it. and even an example where a staff member shared something that boiled down to a text-description of child-sex. well okay.jpg Not the object of this thread. Further, there is either more context to this, which you are failing to provide in an attempt to be snide; or I am indeed left to wonder why you haven't filed a staff complaint. Regardless, I've notified the Head Admins and they'll investigate the matter. Outside of this thread, of course. However, I wouldn't say either of the belligerent staff, or the latter staff member I am referring to are bad at their jobs or unfit to be staff. And I'm sure you're going to say that this is a logical fallacy, or deflection, but I believe it is not. I personally think that there are individuals who sometimes get very heated in a situation, and then calm down shortly after and that these people are genuinely decent, kind and competent individuals. Everyone gets heated at times. Everyone fucks up at times. None of present staff have been permabanned twice for incredibly awful conduct, however. And there is a list of folks who have been dismissed over their conduct. So to say we do not monitor nor police that is wrong.
DatBerry Posted January 5, 2018 Posted January 5, 2018 On one hand you're pretty good at paying attention to details as chada noted, and you know your lore and regulations/procedure. On the other hand you've been raging more often since your unban, you ranged from unfriendly to outright uncooperative and hostile, as a wiki developer you don't actually have much say in what you do add, as regulations fall under CCIAA and lore falls under lore devs; there's room to argue but the final say still falls under the respective department, how well do you think you can handle having to add things you disagree with? we've had old wiki devs quit because they refused to add some things to the wiki, who were less volatile as you. Honestly, my guess if you were accepted would be joining and working fine for a month or so before an incident breaks out, you made me regret supporting your unban quite often, so why should we trust you wouldn't start another incident as a staff member?
Azande Posted January 5, 2018 Author Posted January 5, 2018 The incident I referenced about the text-child stuff was handled and reported on discord by staffs. Re: Datberry I wouldn't disagree as a Wiki Dev, I'd be fine silently approaching them and PMs (as I do now) when I have an issue with lore/regs, I've had many great talks with Whiterabit on regs. When it comes to the final implementation, I would do as I am told, it's not my place to decide what goes on the wiki.
AllyBearsley Posted January 6, 2018 Posted January 6, 2018 Alright, well i won't really need a few days to think on this. I've had plenty of time over the last day and a good night's sleep after moving back into my apartment. Let's dig in. First I'm glad people are actually commenting on a Wiki Maintainer application. I would encourage more people, especially other wiki maintainers to voice their opinions on applicants. It lets me get a good idea if my team thinks the applicant will fit in on the team. Now you all typed a lot of words, but my responses will be mostly brief. Chada Response I'll say that though i've got in many arguments over some menial things with Azande in the past, I think they'd make a good Wiki Maintainer, they have a big focus on accuracy and detail (Even if that detail is ANNOYING) when it comes to procedure among other things. I think they'd make a good team member so long as they don't get into any arguments, which I don't see happening anyway, we're too busy fixing stuff! Thank you for your opinion Chada. Skull Response I requested a report from the admins/mods regarding Xander's conduct over the past month or two. Because I forget but I saw his name run through the mod chat at some point recently. In the mean time, allow me to express that I believe Xander to be unfit to be a member of staff, specifically due to his conduct. An example would be the fact that since September, I've needed to strike Xander on Discord once, and call him out on two other cases of him being belligerent towards members of staff. All three cases boiled down to him expressing his grievances with the decisions made by the Development team in a manner unbecoming; while ignoring reasonable explanations or his points proven wrong. And please do not think that this boils down to, "He attacked my department, plz no." There are multiple people on the staff team with whom I personally do not agree with. In just about all teams. But they keep their conduct civil, so do I, and hey it all works out. I doubt such a relationship would work out with Xander, however. This is a worrying message from the server owner no less, showing the conflicts between staff and Xander. First Xander Response I definitely see your concern in this and understand it - Garn has a rule about me applying for staff (which is, that I can't), so I approached him about this application and he deferred me to Jackboot who then said I was free to apply. I don't know about what access to staff discords a wiki maintainer gets, if any, but my intent as a wiki maintainer would not to be to discuss lore, development, or the like, it would be to ensure the wiki is kept up to date as directed by Ally, Jackboot and the respective lore developers (although I believe they keep their special pages maintained themselves. I also have examples of staff members being belligerent when I haven't been, and even an example where a staff member shared something that boiled down to a text-description of child-sex. However, I wouldn't say either of the belligerent staff, or the latter staff member I am referring to are bad at their jobs or unfit to be staff. And I'm sure you're going to say that this is a logical fallacy, or deflection, but I believe it is not. I personally think that there are individuals who sometimes get very heated in a situation, and then calm down shortly after and that these people are genuinely decent, kind and competent individuals. My desire to join the wiki maintainers is so that I can help contribute to the server in a way that keeps me the most un-involved with other staff - because I understand that some of them and I have issues between one another, but I still want to support the server that I love and keeping the wiki edited and contributing guides seems like the easiest, least-involved way to do such. The wiki team is part of staff. There is no getting around it. You are applying for a staff position. You would be apart of the staff team. I am glad you wish to help the wiki, but perhaps you are looking for more of an off staff role. Which is completely possible without application. I try not to be unapproachable. My discord is set for anyone to send me messages and I try to respond to everything I am sent. Also does Jackboots know about Garn's ruling on you and staff positions. I know I didn't until you posted this response, and you contacted me asking if I was still looking for applicants. Berry Response On one hand you're pretty good at paying attention to details as chada noted, and you know your lore and regulations/procedure. On the other hand you've been raging more often since your unban, you ranged from unfriendly to outright uncooperative and hostile, as a wiki developer you don't actually have much say in what you do add, as regulations fall under CCIAA and lore falls under lore devs; there's room to argue but the final say still falls under the respective department, how well do you think you can handle having to add things you disagree with? we've had old wiki devs quit because they refused to add some things to the wiki, who were less volatile as you. Honestly, my guess if you were accepted would be joining and working fine for a month or so before an incident breaks out, you made me regret supporting your unban quite often, so why should we trust you wouldn't start another incident as a staff member? I have similar fears as detailed by very here. If I accept Xander, how long until he goes off on some member of staff or goes off on me for something? Xander Second Response The incident I referenced about the text-child stuff was handled and reported on discord by staffs. Re: Datberry I wouldn't disagree as a Wiki Dev, I'd be fine silently approaching them and PMs (as I do now) when I have an issue with lore/regs, I've had many great talks with Whiterabit on regs. When it comes to the final implementation, I would do as I am told, it's not my place to decide what goes on the wiki. I am not going to spoil anything, but I am speaking with Jackboots about something involving the wiki devs. That would make the "silent helper" thing a little more difficult. There is also a clear difference, Xander, in how you conduct yourself in messages and how you conduct yourself in public places. Xander you're applying for a staff position and with the concerns voiced in this thread and to me privately by others, I have to decline this application. However, I do strongly encourage you to look at helping Aurora however you see fit. Your last message to me about an idea for the wiki is fantastic and I would love to have it implemented. Yet I cannot see you working well in the staff position. I would love for more people to just be involved with the wiki altogether. It's why I made a public thread and it's pinned in the guides section. I admit I have not updated the thread properly in some time. I am going to get on that after I finish this response. I have no problem with people throwing me ideas for the wiki. That thread will slowly turn into more of an idea thread instead of a simple "Fix guide" thread. Thank you for applying Xander and if you can think of things to improve the wiki or just generally help out I encourage you to post them or just send them to me.
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