[Resolved] Calion12 - Unfair Warning

[Hackie]

BYOND Key: Hackie Mhan

Staff BYOND Key: Calion12

Game ID: bS5-cDYa

Reason for complaint: Unfair Warning.

In brief summary, here's what happened. I am playing the Dominian Warden and this is a revolution round and it begins with an announcement involving Humans receiving pay cuts and Tajaran receiving a pay raise. So a clear dichotomy is established and this results in multiple verbal confrontations, in person and on the radio. One of these incidents I would like to highlight involve the player in questions, Leah Siskin. Leah has clearly drawn the lines of being sympathetic to the Tajaran, and the revolutionary Security clearly notices and we begin to build clout with humans onboard. After this, we decide, hey, we've got the guns let's go teach them a lesson. So we form a little mob, and we start traveling down the hall, and look who it is, the Tajaran RD who has been berating humans all round. We go and start messing with him, but he breaks out of our chokehold, and throws a massive bomb. Some of Security is injured to varying degrees, and we have the RD in restraints, excellent. The Emergency Medical Technicians begin to grab the severely injured, and those who are fine move to the bar with the RD in tow.

This is where the incident in question begins. Three members of security, including myself, have the RD. We tie a noose, and people begin clamoring around and getting involved. Leah Siskin, the Quartermaster who has no business as a first responder, comes in and tries to provide Medical attention to Security who do not need it. She is flashed, and told to leave. She continues asserting herself into the situation. Now, as we begin to hang the RD Leah drags him away and tells us to stop, and we tell them to screw off. Now, at the time, I wasn't particularly focused on the logs more so on the Officer and bystanders trying to stop us, so according to what Calion said actually the Officer was the one who removed the RD's restraints. Regardless, he escapes, the AI promptly unbolting the door, which both the RD and other bystanders left, and we then break into a firefight afterwards. The Officer moves to corner me in the smoking lounge of the bar, and I hit him with my baton, next Leah comes, hit with my baton. They're both restrained. Then, the Forensic Technician tries stopping us with a knife, hit him with my baton. So, all three of them are restrained, all three of them asserted themselves into the situation, and all three of them assisted the Research Director terrorist. The situation has properly escalated by this point. After this, I drag all the prisoners to the main table at the bar, where we had setup the noose and had each and everyone of them watching. As I begin to say something to Leah, the bartender grabs a shotgun and is sitting behind the counter. At this point I'm trying to finish the action with hanging Leah, and focusing on the bartender. As soon as Leah is hung, the bartender climbs over and tries to shoot me twice, they are hit with a baton, to no surprise.

So what has happened after all this mess? There's a little last supper with all the people who tried stopping the lynch mob and saving the RD, with Leah Siskin passed out hanging on a chair. This actually has a purpose, believe it or not. The kind, compassionate, Quartermaster is hung while people inside are forced to watch, and people outside are powerless to do anything because of the bolted doors. In fact, a Vaucra miner actually tried breaking in with a diamond pickaxe. With her death, we're able to intimidate people to join the revolution, and motivate others to oppose it. A deliberate action was taken to make her death more interesting than getting their skull broken open and left for dead. We did not obstruct her body in any way preventing her from being cloned. In addition, she purposefully asserted herself into a situation, even when other Security members told her to leave, and she interfered with the lynch mob. There was even a firefight beforehand. So the claim of over escalation is unfair, and false.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

[calion12]

I will say that the escalation had some merit to it which I did say in our PMs. What I took issue with was the sheer volume of warnings and notes that you have relating to very similar reasons to this. I understand the point of the QMs execution but I do not believe that it warranted an immediate removal from the round. I get that the idea was to do it brutally and ruthlessly so as to inspire terror in the others but there were multiple other ways you could have done this, ones that didn't involve the player being instantly removed from the round. Admittedly this is a small issue but taking into account previous notes and warnings, I felt that a warning was needed in order to convey the message.

[Garnascus]

I have some issues with your reasoning here [mention]calion12[/mention] and i will attempt to explain them. The relevant server rule is this.

 

Only resort to killing if it makes sense or drives a story. Randomly killing someone because you’re a traitor will get you removed right quick. This also means that murder for the sake of murder is punishable. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you’re uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps

 

Our goal is simply to asses whether there was a point or a reason behind a murder. Since this is a role play server we generally expect them to be a bit better than "i want the captains ID". Now by your testimony and that of the OP it seems to me this condition is reasonably fulfilled. Does it suck that someone was removed from the round? Yeah sure it does but we have to remember that death is part of the game. Either they killed someone to drive a story or they did not.

 

What I took issue with was the sheer volume of warnings and notes that you have relating to very similar reasons to this.

 

I dont think his notes about similar situations are relevant here if he didn't break a rule. As i said it seems to me he had a good reason and a point to do what he did. Its kind of unreasonable to go "well normally this would be ok but you've went too far in situations really similar to this before". Now given these two points i feel the warning should be expunged entirely. If i am misrepresenting you or you do in fact feel he broke a rule please dont hesitate to argue it.

[calion12]

Having read both Hakie and Garn’s points I can now see that my judgement was at fault and I apologise to Hackie for making this incorrect judgement. I do feel the situation could have been handled better but I can see how this warning was not needed in the situation presented.

[Faris]

I have some issues with your reasoning here @calion12 and i will attempt to explain them. The relevant server rule is this.

 

Only resort to killing if it makes sense or drives a story. Randomly killing someone because you’re a traitor will get you removed right quick. This also means that murder for the sake of murder is punishable. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you’re uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps

 

Our goal is simply to asses whether there was a point or a reason behind a murder. Since this is a role play server we generally expect them to be a bit better than "i want the captains ID". Now by your testimony and that of the OP it seems to me this condition is reasonably fulfilled. Does it suck that someone was removed from the round? Yeah sure it does but we have to remember that death is part of the game. Either they killed someone to drive a story or they did not.

 

What I took issue with was the sheer volume of warnings and notes that you have relating to very similar reasons to this.

 

I dont think his notes about similar situations are relevant here if he didn't break a rule. As i said it seems to me he had a good reason and a point to do what he did. Its kind of unreasonable to go "well normally this would be ok but you've went too far in situations really similar to this before". Now given these two points i feel the warning should be expunged entirely. If i am misrepresenting you or you do in fact feel he broke a rule please dont hesitate to argue it.

I concur with Garn on this.