LanceLynxx Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 The smugness that comes off of secret chem players, and the lengths they arbitrarily go to hide and obfuscate their own work is cancer to our workplace simulation. Oh no My colleague put more effort in doing his job and now he knows things that I don't and refuses to share!!!!!1111 The audacity of not handing me knowledge on a silver platter after he did all the work himself! I demand all the information, I am entitled to this! I think every time someone says "look yourself lel if you want to discover them" It makes me wonder if they realize the point of this game is roleplay. Whether I should roleplay or stand in one spot clicking buttons. I think I'll pass imo One thing does not exclude the other. You can roleplay AND research. Furthermore: One could argue that doing your job as chemist/researcher IS role play. You're doing your job. If you don't like the mechanics of the job, that's another problem entirely.
LanceLynxx Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 Will you tell me the ingredients for the secret chems? If you won't then you are proving my point. I sure won't, but I can offer you guidance. Point made. What an absolutely loaded question. It does not prove any points since the logic is flawed. The information is there for anyone to acquire. You just have to put time and effort in it. There is nothing keeping you from learning except your own time and effort. And you don't even have to research yourself as a chemist or researcher. Social skills are a thing. I learned about 3 or 4 secret chems as Sukhoi, without ever touching a ChemMaster, and ICly. You're simply being lazy about it.
Asheram Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 I sure won't, but I can offer you guidance. Point made. What an absolutely loaded question. It does not prove any points since the logic is flawed. The information is there for anyone to acquire. You just have to put time and effort in it. There is nothing keeping you from learning except your own time and effort. And you don't even have to research yourself as a chemist or researcher. Social skills are a thing. I learned about 3 or 4 secret chems as Sukhoi, without ever touching a ChemMaster, and ICly. You're simply being lazy about it. I will admit to it being a loaded question, but the truth is that if people had any intent of sharing the information of alchemy and secret chems then the information would've been made publicly available a long time ago. The fact that this very topic has been argued for months only reinforces that idea.
Skull132 Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 What a loaded thread. SINCE THIS THREAD IS FUCKING BLOOMING, LET ME PLACE A RESTRICTION ON WHAT'S TO BE DISCUSSED. Discuss the suggestion and its impact only. Any discussion outside of that is about to get fucking cropped. This includes discussion about the alchemical nature of the chemicals. What the chems do is not a topic for discussion here. I'll write one spoiler, regarding the entire concept of the secret chems, which we're apparently discussing here for some reason. First. Understand the fact that these chemicals are literally a drop in the ocean, as far as secret knowledge within SS13 is concerned. They're a wee bit more overt than the examples I'm about to raise in terms of their nature, but they are still not that different. They're niche things which do not affect the common flow of gameplay. There are a hundred and more pieces of information like that within this game. From the alternative function of the flash (which is actually very powerful, due to how often it catches people off-guard) to ways to bypass 80% of the RnD tree to chemistry manufacture lists to optimized engine setups to ways to ICly abuse game mechanics. Some of this knowledge is never even hinted at in the wiki. Some of it is based on existent gameplay mechanics. So, again, this is nothing and I do not see why we need to make noise about it. There are plenty of anecdotal examples of people being silly with the knowledge, of people being completely mature with the knowledge; or people getting interesting RP from them. Or people getting the door smacked in their face over it. Ultimately, this can be said about nearly everything in SS13. I do not see how this is a novel issue nor a novel point for discussion. I encourage everyone who thinks otherwise to go and visit Goonstation. They've had secret content like this for decades. Their community is mature about the subject, living and letting live. My only misgiving about them in principle is the fact that they lack representation ingame, if you don't already know they exist. It'd be neat if they emerged in other mechanics, like xenoarch, xenobot, xenobio, etcetera. But that's about to jump into the other spoiler. Now, regarding the actual fucking thread. To summarize my opinion up front, this is death by compromise. Randomization is absoloutely not fit for purpose here. Randomization is a gate mechanic. The algorithm can be learned, memorized, optimized. After which it's just a chore. This is somewhat fitting (though not the ideal solution) to gameplay mechanics which are meant to be used every round. Like genetics: genetics was a dedicated job, as such, you wouldn't put up a giant wall on the subject. Instead, you'd put up a bump which would slow down new comers, but allow the old timers to get right to work. Secret chemicals are not equitable to genetics. They are not a primary gameplay mechanic, they are meant to be (and are, by the nature of what the chemicals do) a niche piece of the gameplay. Thus, the gate to actually use them is quite large. It's meant to be a bit of a reward, if you will. One of those things you spend a few hours working away on in the lab, with hopes of eventually getting it right. Like trying to figure out the most optimal ration of plasma to air in a tank-transfer valve. (Ayy, that's another one of those secrets which exists but no one knows about unless they've paid attention.) However, what you're proposing as the second part of the equation is something I'd be actually in support of. As stated in my previous spoiler, I think we would benefit from making the chemicals a bit more visible ingame. Make people go, "Huh. Da fuck is this." And adding a machine which, through destructive analysis (meaning the chemical is used up), would give you a hint at how to create the chemical. This would make the entire experience a bit more engaging and a bit less about bashing your face against the wall. It would also introduce an interesting trade of, "Do I want to feed this to my colleague, or shove it into the machine?" So ye, my thoughts.
LanceLynxx Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 I, but the truth is that if people had any intent of sharing the information of alchemy and secret chems then the information would've been made publicly available a long time ago. 1) Who ever said that anyone intended to share anything? There is no intention as it is a per-person/character basis. There are some that want to share. Some that don't. There is no "rule" to this. 2)The information is publicly available, again, there is nothing stopping you from gaining it. There is no "wall" between you and the knowledge. You just want it on a silver platte,r and call THAT "public". 3) Why is this even a valid arguement against secret chems? because they're secret? that's redundant. "I don't like secrets because they're not publicized". Well no shit. Water is wet.
Pacmandevil Posted May 11, 2018 Posted May 11, 2018 But if they are indeed static, why aren't they public knowledge? Because the whole point of it is to be a secret. that's why they're called secret chems. "it-it's metaknowledge" It's really not, considering you discovered how to make it in game. None of the secret chems are particularly useful, or powerful without plenty of setup, either. so that is hardly an issue.
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