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[Resolved] Staff Complaint -- SonicGotNuked


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BYOND Key: Nikov

Staff BYOND Key: SonicGotNuked

Game ID:bQW-aAv2, EXTENDED

Reason for complaint:

 

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This really isn't a complaint against Sonic.


My ability to play a whitelisted command role and my specific character should not be compromised by wanting to go to sleep after two 'continue the round' votes in Extended and leaving an ID-locked non-weapon on the table where it is protected from theft by SSD looting rules and able to be easily found by any replacement CE.


I feel pretty much trapped in a cycle of notes and warnings that never put the 'issue' in context. The issue here is that I'm job-banned from CE et all for three days after a round in which I showed up (nobody else wanted the job!), took a report from the staff, arranged a test to be performed with the engine, got told by someone they'd sooner cryo than stick around for it (they did, how's that for properly using cryo), responded to a biohazard, cleared it without loss of life, coordinated the repair effort, kept Command up to speed and generally did my job. Then a crew transfer failed, the Captain himself fucked off to cryo, and after another crew transfer failed, I fucked off to cryo. I was entirely within my rights save that I put the RIG module on the table instead of down two Z levels and across the length of the station, which at 2 AM, I didn't feel was warranted since the suit will not work without the proper ID and was being put down in the cryo area anyway, in a dead-hours round with dying pop and nothing resembling a threat. It wasn't a gun or an ID card or the 'nuke disk' as Sonic compared it to.


Allegations that I go SSD in my office stem from long, uneventful rounds leaving me with little to do as a chief engineer except sit in my office, on-call, and await an event that requires my attention. That means I'm responding to things a little delayed, perhaps, but its clear where I can be found. Contrast this with wandering around valid-hunting, building crap in maintenance or pestering the opposite sex. For that matter, contrast this with not performing the first hour of a shift's work, or leaving the slot empty. Anyone else would be sitting at the desk awaiting a problem at best, or running off building a bar in maintenance at worst.


It seems entirely meaningless to go beyond "hey, you need to stash that in your office as per the rules", because as I think I'm making clear, I do the job I'm whitelisted for and I take both it and the server seriously. I am not the random shitter I reported earlier in the round walking around with a welding tank and a grey jumpsuit. In theory, a positive conversation goes further with the earnest but misguided and the hammer should only go down on the malicious. But that policy isn't being pursued in what amounts to broken-windows policing of multi-year veterans of the server, driving talent and experience away by a thousand cuts of trial admins and their notations. Experiences like this do not make me want to improve. They genuinely make me want to not play for a few months, again, and again, and again. Given how many whitelists we've handed out, yet how many rounds I've seen where I'm the only head of staff, I wouldn't be surprised if this is a recurring theme for many.


I guess if you don't write complaints about the administration they won't change their style.


Evidence/logs/etc:

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Additional remarks:


That bag is a previous engineer's. It contained engineering's hoist kit, without which injured people can't be recovered from EVA. Just saying.

Edited by Guest
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You know, what really gets me is that I specifically went through my inventory for anything that might be role-sensitive in an honest effort to comply with the rule, the evidence that I did so is right there on the table, and I still got a three day ban.

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The issue is that just like everyone else, you're required to place your work place equipment in your locker. A security loadout can easily be acquired again but nevertheless should still be placed where they were found. We enforce this on pretty much all roles when we catch them. You're also encouraged to ahelp said people, such as this hoist and such you found, but you didn't so we didn't notice it.


This is doubly important due to the nature of the CE rig, it's very possible and has happened before in the past where a command staff would join and find items missing due to the previous position holder gone, it's why we enforce this, and again doubly more strict on members of command. You leave a high value item in a public place where anyone could acquire it, which should not be the case. You've been told this multiple times as well, even by myself. If you cannot properly cryo yourself, you may ahelp for us to do so.


I was there this round as well and don't think Sonic has done anything wrong, in fact, job bans in my experience aren't usually this small.

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Alright, I'll try to explain once again.


You have obviously had enough time to run to your office, stash you things, go to cryo when you got back on from my pings on discord. Why didn't you just do a quick run back to your office and stash your high security hardsuit. The ID requirement is null in this context because what happens if some random greytider or dude worried decides to pick up the rig and it easily goes missing. You don't place items onto a table because, remember, there is two spawn points, and some CEs may not spawn via cryo so they will not see the suit going down into the elevators. They go to their office, want the suit, and it is missing.


You have notes and warnings in the past about cryo/SSD issues as a command staff, I am giving you a slap in the face to learn how to correctly cryo. If you can not store your items you do not spawn with inside your office locker, then you ahelp that you need to go and be cryoed via BST and log.


I am sorry to say, that further issues of not correctly cryoing yourself might place your command white list on the line if a staff member decides to contact Schev or Coalf about the issue. I want you to learn the two directions above. The ban is a slap in the face to try and get you to learn.


By the way, thank you for running back and stashing the role sensitive objects inside your office.

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I had enough time to do it because you put a gun to my head, Sonic, and I thought running back in to correct it would settle the matter. Then you pulled the trigger anyway as a deliberate insult. That's what "slap in the face" means, by the way. A deliberate insult. You could plainly see I made a good faith effort not to cryo with important items but insisted on driving your point home with a deliberate insult. You could plainly see I am responding to the warning I'd gotten by making sure I didn't idle out indefinitely, or enter cryo with important things, but that last 5%, that littlest margin of error, is what you are going to deliberately insult me over.


The rule is, "Please use cryogenic sleep whenever possible: it’ll free up the job slot for others. And please remember to store your gear in your office/work area before going to cryogenic sleep." It is a rather softly written rule to use the cryo sleep to open up the job slot as an after thought is another softly written clause. Is this really something worth killing for? Because I have to fight over it. I've got a wife and three kids who will randomly demand my full attention at any point in the day, and if every little incident piles up like this, and every past incident stays on my record, and every future incident gets compounded by the past, I cannot remain on this server. You've got to decide what you're willing to permaban over, and a courtesy-based rule doesn't seem like where you should draw that line.

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I had enough time to do it because you put a gun to my head, Sonic, and I thought running back in to correct it would settle the matter. Then you pulled the trigger anyway as a deliberate insult. That's what "slap in the face" means, by the way. A deliberate insult. You could plainly see I made a good faith effort not to cryo with important items but insisted on driving your point home with a deliberate insult. You could plainly see I am responding to the warning I'd gotten by making sure I didn't idle out indefinitely, or enter cryo with important things, but that last 5%, that littlest margin of error, is what you are going to deliberately insult me over.

 

I am not putting this as a insult. Do you think I like punishing people? No, I punish people to try and get them to change. Hell, I gotten a perm synth and antag ban in the past and I was pretty salty over it but I have learned from why I got the bans and accept them. I also did not put a gun to your head, I could've straight pushed the punishment because you were not on the server and in fact, I didn't even need to PM you the ban reason. I did it out of the kindness of my heart to try and teach you Nikov, I don't want to permanently ban you, I want to help you improve and I am needed to hand out the appropriate punishment based on your notes. I got you on because I wanted to discuss with you about it.

 

I've got a wife and three kids who will randomly demand my full attention at any point in the day, and if every little incident piles up like this, and every past incident stays on my record, and every future incident gets compounded by the past, I cannot remain on this server. You've got to decide what you're willing to permaban over, and a courtesy-based rule doesn't seem like where you should draw that line.

 

I understand that you have a wife and three kids, it must be a ton of work. But if you do not ahelp or contact someone on discord when you fall SSD and fail to cryo properly, it causes issues and may cripple the round. If you are unable to spare enough time needed to play a certain role, take a break from it. I am not trying to be rude over it, I am trying to state a fact. You are responsible for your own playtime and making a attempt to leave the game properly as a head of staff. I did discuss with the other staff online at the time. I PMed you the ban reason so you know because I don't want you to be gone from the server for three days and completely miss the ban, not even knowing it was applied and if the issue kept up, you would get a more serious punishment because it logs inside your notes.

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I will be handling this complaint, though we have already discussed this issue as a group before hand.


We agreed there's two points in this complaint, firstly:


The punishment:

We have agreed that the punishment is just and fitting, you have a yet active warning about going SSD

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Putting the hardsuit rig there allows anyone to grab it, stuff it in a personal locker and no one will ever find a way to get it again, not even staff could find it easily if at all, while not the same as taking it with you into cryo, it still puts the equipment at risk of being lost with no IC way of recovering it.


If you can't put it back in time, simply ahelp with it still on your body, at least that way we can tell who stripped it off, and we can either get an admin to do it, or instruct someone nearby to handle the return of the equipment and putting you in cryo.


Secondly, the way the incident was handled:

We don't call people over discord to tell them to come back, if someone cryo'd then they have irl reasons to leave, the most you can do is notify them of the issue with a "please put your equipment in your office" if you note it down, or simply warn them, as they can see it when they login next, but in your case a ban was justified, calling you over and having you fix your mistake and then still banning you wasn't. So I've asked to have your ban removed, and replaced with a severe warning instead, and as of this writing, no one disagreed so I'm going ahead with it anyway. Our trial handling admin Catnip will be discussing this with sonic.


So next time PLEASE ahelp, shoot a discord PM to a mod or admin in the worst case scenario that you must leave and have no time to cryo yourself if you can't find the time to put your equipment back in your locker, another incident like this will result in another job ban atleast.



I will leave this open for 24 hours in case anyone has anything else to say.

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This leaves the question; are you willing to permaban over this kind of rule. Because if you are not, I would like to know what the limit is in punishment. In addition to a family to interrupt play my internet dies in wind, rain, bright sunlight and butterflies alighting on my phone lines. Will that compound over years to end my whitelist?

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This leaves the question; are you willing to permaban over this kind of rule. Because if you are not, I would like to know what the limit is in punishment. In addition to a family to interrupt play my internet dies in wind, rain, bright sunlight and butterflies alighting on my phone lines. Will that compound over years to end my whitelist?

 

Don't believe we've ever had a case such as this, we've at the most given out permanent job bans for extreme offenders. But assuming let's say we ban them from a department for this, they move on and do the same for other departments to the point where it's just us racking administrative actions in hopes he'd stop, then I suppose a permanent ban is possible. We've just generally never had a case like this.


Side note but I'd like to iterate what Datberry said. If you cannot properly cryo yourself in a reasonable amount of time. Ahelp it and we'll do it for you.

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I have further doubts about this rule. It exists on almost all servers but exists for a much more practical reason; traitors or nuke operatives will have objectives to steal certain items, and the rule exists to keep those items from being removed from play so that the antagonists aren't blocked. However, we do not have such game modes here, with a sole exception of the nuke disk. Since admins can stick a player in cryo at an F1 request, what prevents them from spawning a new copy of the blueprints or CE's stamp with an F1 request? Creating them for an antagonist would be metagaming and ruin the challenge of the round, but we don't face that here.


It seems to me that this rule is more of a holdover than relevant to our play, and a seven day temp ban from a given position should be the maximum sentence for a rule now reduced to a courtesy to others.

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It's not just courtesy, staff shouldn't need to intervene every time someone is too lazy to put their equipment where it belongs. in case there's an emergency you can shoot an ahelp but you're expected to be able to play the whole round or cryo successfully most of the time.


if in the worst case scenario your internet is completely shut off, you can PM an admin/mod when you get a connection about the time you disconnected and they can check if there was any note/warning about the incident and edit/remove it.


Considering this resolved, locking and archiving.

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