Korinra

As much as it pains me. I think it's probably better to make them have random components. It's fine to say, "These are secret compounds", but the wiki should mention them, but comment that the recipes change round to round. That way a scientist could TELL You what the chemical they discovered will do, but they will have to discover it.

You must really like clerical bot concepts based on your suggestions. Again with the other ones I reply to for clerical bots; If you can conceive of it being a basic office function: Fax/Make Coffee/Do Paperwork/Make Copies/File Things/etc... Then yes, a clerical bot should be able to do it in my opinion. +1

Sorry Sebbe, but yeah anything that brings someone back from being fully dead I'll disagree with. So if it's a hard question of, "Should defibs be implemented to reanimate recently dead?", then -1 from me.

I do feel like a clerical bot, designed specifically for clerical duties, should have no limitations on how it handles paperwork. +1

Going to have to agree with Azande on this. There's no real reason for it to be defaulted on a bot unless a staff head decides they specifically want it modified for some specific round-related reason.

Honestly I'd find this interesting, especially if it came with other needs. Like Hexatrasenil begins by giving a drowsy effect, slowing movement to half, then after a while it makes you drop what you're holding constantly. But while under the effect, it would be super hard to be an antag, and unless you get some kind of antidote, like charcoal to absorb it or ipecac to vomit it out, you'll see a message, "You've realized how your actions were wrong! You're antagonistic ways have to stop! [YOU ARE NO LONGER AN ANTAGONIST]". Of course this wouldn't work on things like Vampires, but it might give the psych a reason to TRY it on them from an IC perspective. Additionally, there would be a moment of, "Do I confess my crimes?" kind of RP. Maybe the Detective already knows your PDA is an uplink, but wants to see if you'll confess that after treatment. Confession? We'll confiscate the PDA and provide a new one, hid that detail? Detainment for a while and we'll take the PDA anyway!

Well, immunizations in the real world might be a good place to start. Maybe if Virology has a machine that predicts some details about the possible virus each round. The Virologist could then work on preparing a 'best case scenario' immunization. The virus may or may not trigger, but if it does, people who have been immunized will have the following: If the Virologist guessed right based on the data, complete immunity to the disease (there's no 100% way to guarantee success though) If the Virologist guessed 3/4 right based on the data, the disease MIGHT affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 1. If the Virologist guessted 1/2 right based on the data, the disease WILL affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 2. If the Virologist guessed 1/4 right based on the data, the disease WILL affect the immunized, but won't move past stage 3. If the Virologist was wrong, the virus can and will spread like normal. This is basically how immunizations for influenza works. They predict how the disease will mutate, make an immunization, and MOST of the time the immunization is extremely successful. But take Swine Flu. That was a failure. They failed at predicting, and as a result, the immunization basically did nothing, which resulted in a lot of sick people. Still TREATABLE, but it did make for an outbreak scare. This, first and foremost, gives the Virologist something to do every round. If there's not a Virologist, business as usual, hopefully people will go to the Medical bay when they're sick. If there IS a Virologist, he can make up some immunizations, pass them out to medical, and have an announcement made that immunizations are prepared for 'the current flu season'. This would ALSO add an RP element. Didn't get the immunization which led to you getting sick despite it being asked of you by your staff head? Well that's neglect of duty and ignoring an instruction from a superior. Security might pop you in a cell for a bit and force that immunization on you.

What's the difference between a Quartermaster who steals a growth tray and a Roboticist with a weird ID? That weird ID is an agent ID, but from the character's perspective it could easily have been an error. "Mr. McRobotmaker, we saw that weird ID on your person, the Captain/HoP would like a word with you if you have a moment." I've seen that exact scenario lead to a shoot-first ask later situation that even the officer who DID it was laughing in LOOC with me about 'yeah I probably shouldn't have done that'. He didn't get a bwoink for shooting without a word, and he shot a roboticist who did not run or hide or anything. Officer ran into Robotics and shot twice. Roboticist yelled, "Ow!" Officer shot a third time which stunned. Officer cuffed and began walking away. It wasn't until AFTER that he said something IC to me, the posibrain that was just in the backpack of the Roboticist. See the thing is, I have no problem with this from an OOC standpoint. I think yes, the officer should be reprimanded IC for firing on a non-aggressive target who was unarmed, but that's 100% IC. I think an antag should be able to do this too though. If a situation calls for a quick and quiet kill, why is that bad? If the antag does it to silence a potential whistle blower, it only makes sense if he's quick and efficient. However, that's not to say I don't think antagonsits should TRY to encourage RP. How many Ninjas have I seen hold up a bomb and wave it at me if I started asking who he was? I run away from the bomb, and the ninja silently moves on. Problem is, now I'm reporting it to Security and the Captain. A smart ninja would have either stayed hidden, or when that fails, kill the person who saw them silently. The ninja on Aurora CAN'T because then it's just 'murderboning', rather than stealth preservation. A dead man who's brain is in a backpack somewhere can't very well tell you what killed him. Additionally, lore wise, an antagonist ninja is going to know the station has a cloner, or could safely assume it would.

Twice people mention how ghosts are required, and to them I quote this line: Lay eggs - Allows you to birth another borer (With an indicator if the borer is intelligent or not, triggered by a ghost taking over the borer). A non-intelligent borer simply allows a ghost to take over later. This means the host is still infected with an NPC borer that does nothing. Then later on, someone could, "Join as borer" if one is available. This ALLOWS ghosts to join but does not REQUIRE them to.

First off, it's not my word verse your word, you are changing my word to account for your claim of my ignorance. However I never claimed I ahelped any of this. My stance on SOME security is unfavorable, some I find quite well RPed. Take Noir for instance, I've not a single complaint about him. I'm not great with names, but there are a few that I rather like (can't think of his first name, but Officer Carmichael also comes to mind as favorable). My point has nothing to do with personal feelings toward Security or Antagonism. My point is that Security has no standard for how they must interact with confirmed antagonists. They can shoot to stun/kill depending on situation, and not bother saying a single word. This isn't how they're expected to deal with regular crew. For instance, if a Quartermaster is found to be stealing a growing tray from botany, officers will come out, ask him to return it, and peacefully try to arrest him (good officers anyway, there might be a few who wouldn't do it that way). My point is, why is there a standard difference between how they're expected to deal with a law breaker verses a confirmed antagonist? If I get arrested as a crew member, I expect the whole thing to be resolved verbally. I don't expect to see a weapon at all, and depending on how the whole thing happens, maybe not even cuffs. But antagonists have to be ready for a shootout against armory-level Security. Why is there this gap in policy? You keep talking about me personally, but why aren't you addressing the question? As for the topic: We need to have a proper discussion about Antagonism and Roleplay I'm addressing a conversation about antagonism and roleplay. Antagonism includes the resolution to it does it not?

They are the ultimate operational authority on board, meaning unless external authorities are brought in, they are the ultimate on board. He is not a crew member like a Janitor, the Captain gets paid exorbitant amounts of money per day, and controls a nuclear weapon of mass destruction. Corporate law doesn't extend anywhere over whatever. Each station follows 'Corporate Regulations', and then each station has their own set of 'Station Directives' tailored to their facility. An example of policies the Captain can change: Fining first instead of brig sentences, no-smoking sign rules, who is and is not allowed to drink at the bar. The list goes on. The Captain has an incredible amount of sway over many policies on board. They simply cannot change the definitions on the corporate regulations wiki page. 3. Getting a Captain fired as IAA is next to impossible unless they murdered someone. Sorry, this is the truth. I used to main IAA, and I still play it (one of two players that play it often). Let me tell you a story, a Captain suspended someone because the person refused to take off a luchador mask. The person complained to my IAA, I filed a report alongside the Chief Engineer who did not approve of the action (the person who was suspended was an engineer). The demotion was highly questionable, the person didn't violate any serious regulation aside from joking around with a mask, and their head of staff was not consulted. Do you know what Central Command said? They overrode the demotion! For the ten minutes left of the round... Then, the player filed an IR against the Captain to see real action taken, I was listed as a witness and handling agent, do you know what happened then? I was told off by the CCIA Supervisor for even considering reporting a Captain for something less than murder, and to never question the Captain - despite it being a CCIA's decision to override the Captain. 5. The link you shared is both Work in Progress and legacy, it is so old that it uses 'Nursing Intern' instead of 'Medical Resident', a change that happened ages ago. Not credible for your assistant gambit - Station Directives are up to date and override WIP wiki pages. 1) A note about cloning from the wiki: Another thing to note is that cloning should not be seen as a simple Escape-Death-Free™ card. Cloning is financially damaging and traumatizing. No one shouldn't fear death. And an excerpt from your quote: The Captain is loyalty implanted, and is therefore trusted to act in the best interests of the company, crew, and station he or she is assigned to. You think someone loyalty implanted to BENEFIT a company should be picking the option that hurts the company MORE for no added benefit to the company? And before you even say the word crew, yeah, the Captain also should benefit the crew... As a WHOLE. It's not an individual benefit, the Captain should focus on a broad look, making sure everyone benefits together, not individuals. For individuals, the department heads should focus on that. 2) You have waffled on your answer. You initially said the Captain's word was ULTIMATE, which meant he could order ANYTHING. Now you're saying he can order... Mmmmm MOST anything. Which again means you're wrong about your initial assertion that he could order anything. If you push the line AT ALL, that means there IS a line that the Captain can't cross. I stated a blanket, "There is a line that should never be crossed", you argued there is not one. Now you are SHOWING a line which should not be crossed. 3) "Getting a Captain fired as IAA is next to impossible" That sentence right there, read it again then read my initial statement: IAA is an unusual exception, who technically doesn't "outrank" anyone, but has the power to dismiss anyone of their position (including Captains), if the situation needs it (VERY rare though). I'm not sure why you're calling me wrong while demonstrating the VERY rare situations that it could apply in. I agree that lore wise it should be controversial, but the alternative is cloning a person then throwing them in a cell for the duration of the round. So let's look at it from an OOC standpoint. Would you rather stay in a cell for an hour, or RP a borg for an hour? Those are literally the two options if you died as a murderer. So not ultimate authority. I'm sorry but I was VERY clear that it's not something you'll see often, but rather that it's VERY rare. To say anything short of "The captain can do anything they want at any time for any reason", means you agree with me. If you can think of a SINGLE instance, where the Captain would be stripped of rank, then you agree with me. If you say, "That captain has ultimate authority, meaning he can do no wrong", THEN you disagree with me, but so far everyone who has disagreed with me that he doesn't have ultimate authority, has then turned around and said it's "mostly", or "essentially", or "almost always". But those qualifiers mean NOT ALWAYS.

Security are a reactive force. You do something, security goes against you. They do negotiate, why do you think every single hostage situation actually turns into a negotiation for the life of the hostages. Literally yesterday the Captain played by Xander Dox has had a discussion with the Traitorous AI and ALLOWED IT to be a Head of Synthetics and keep itself unlawed as long as it doesn't overstep its boundaries! That is negotiation, security does talk to people they do negotiate! Maybe you should gather more experience! Everything you described as "Good sec RP" indeed DOES HAPPEN, maybe you wwere right in your first post. You didn't notice because you do not play antagonists enough. YES we have shitty officers! Does anyone ahelp them? No, they just complain in threads like these 2 months after the incidents happens. I love how you're trying to call me ignorant in a really cute way. I play CSI often, and I know how often I've seen Officers rush in guns blazing without a single word. Know what I've never seen? An officer say, "Halt!", or "Stop!" or "Lay down your weapon!" to an antag. Never seen it. I have seen it where they talk over comms sure, but you can't shoot someone you haven't found yet. I also know how many times I've seen code red and armory up for small suspicions because people know OOCly that it's an antag. "The roboticist has a weird thing? CODE RED! SCAN THE AI!", ok so metagaming is good RP then? Sure I guess at least they're RPing their metagame in those situations. Frankly I see it so often that I don't blame the good-guy antags for trying to trick the playerbase into thinking it's a strange event sometimes. I've seen exactly one gimmick sort of work in a Crossfire round, where me as a pAI calling a guy "hostile" caused an all out gunfight that nobody could explain afterwards. The first person who shot couldn't explain why he shot other than, "Well they came in after you said "hostile". I called him hostile because he threw a helmet at me. From a personal perspective that's a hostile action. Didn't mean bring in the Calvary. I was given the order, "Find hostiles and report their location", he threw a helmet (hostile) I said where he was... gunfight broke out because he was a Merc (who up till that point the crew trusted to be NT reps). No words were said between them, and the Mercs all died. No one got Bwoinked because we chatted about it after the round. I wonder if the mercs would have gotten bwoinked if they decided to fire first without any interaction or RP.

What I don't understand is you disagreeing with me and arguing with me while ultimately agreeing with me that death should be final with no chance of the body being brought back. If you can please explain why you're arguing with me beyond that I'd be super happy. Beyond that it's all opinion, and yours and mine are different. Stop trying to argue like an opinion can be right or wrong.

1) i301 Murder To kill someone, or attempt to kill someone, with premeditated malicious intent. Also cover Attempted Murder. The premeditated and malicious bit is important here. Cyorgification or Holding Until Transfer on majority Command decision. I'm guessing this is what you're referencing. So your options, when dealing with a murderer, are; A) Hold them in a cell until transfer or B) Cyborgification, and Command chooses which one of these. Right, I agree, are you going to vote to throw the corpse into a cell? Or are you going to vote to throw it into a cyborg? 2) The Captain is not ultimate in any sense of the word, and I'll address that in 2.5. 2.5) Ok, so here's the example I give. The exact wording on the Captain's authority as as follows: Authority The Captain has the final say on almost every matter on the station. If the Captain tells someone to do something they better do it, or have an exceptionally good reason to not do so. Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not. The only time Corporate Regulations may be overridden is if there is an imminent and overwhelming threat to the station. Situations where the captain's orders are overridden are rare, but may include orders that would cause unnecessary and large amounts of damage to people or property, or are simply outrageously stupid. For example, ordering the Chief Engineer to vent the bar of atmosphere as people are getting slightly tipsy. This is not the norm however, and generally people should follow whatever the captain says. ---------------- This means, the Captain CAN be ignored in extreme circumstances, his authority amounting to nil if he abuses it. He does NOT have ultimate authority, as it gives examples where his authority stops (therefore NOT ultimate). Additionally, if he's the only staff head, then in a 0/0 vote, all OTHER staff heads unanimously agree, as not one single staff head disagreed. Bottom line, Captain isn't ultimate, the wiki even says that he's not. Yes if he gives a legal command, "RD, I want you to stop Phoron experimentation for the shift, and put more effort into R&D", the RD is obligated to obey that. That command is not dangerous or illegal, so it should be followed. Failing to do so would be criminal. However, "RD, Science is stupid, I want you to blow that department up", is dangerous, reckless, and plain stupid. You would LEGALLY be allowed to ignore that command from the Captain, so much for "ultimate authority". This also means the Captain is NOT able to change corporate procedures at his whim. The Captain isn't NT's chief anything, he's a crew member just like the janitor. He just has more authority over the crew. NT owns multiple stations (like the Odin), and the Corporate laws extend FROM the Odin over to the Aurora. The Captain is a small piece of the NT brand. His authority is STATION policy, but Corporate Policy is just that, Corporate (applying to ALL stations). Remember, because it's Corporate, it applies to the Odin too. That means, if you are saying he has the authority to change things from that list of policies, he can change them on the Odin too, and that simply isn't true. 3) Quote "More often than not, security officers and heads of staff will ignore your complaints. The best course of action in this scenario is to take your complaint to the Head of Security, and failing that, the Captain. If nobody on the station is listening to you, it is within your power to inform Central Command about the station crew's (lack of) cooperation. NanoTrasen Command usually takes the side of Internal Affairs Agents because they are loyal and trained in procedure and Corporate Regulations. A single Internal Affairs Agent has the power to make a crewmember's life miserable; it is a bad idea to mess with Internal Affairs!" Yes, saying, IAA doesn't DIRECTLY fire someone is true, but saying they don't have the POWER to get you fired, is false. IAA can and will get a Captain demoted in a snap if they're not following NT procedures. Do they sign off the paperwork? Nope, but as someone who has seen it happen, IAA CAN get a Captain fired without much more than a fax. 4) I will concede the point about interns, I looked further and found that to be kind of true, but still not really relating to the point I made initially. They are outranked. https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Chain_of_Command 5) I encourage you to click to the previous link, which shows Assistant having less say than anyone, but ONLY answering to staff heads. 6) OK I'll update my initial post to say Gross Negligence. I've read othe rposts leading up to here, but they're too nitpicky to mention individually. If the HoS says, "I don't want his guns on station", then Security can ask for them not to bring it. Bottom line, yes, I'm sure you could nitpick where the order comes from, but my point is in who ENFORCES it. If an officer asks you to go back to your ship with your gun, you don't just flip him off and walk away, you have two options as a merchant, confirm with staff heads or comply. Chances are, if officers are asking, the heads will agree with it (even if they didn't initially instruct it honestly). That's the whole thing though, yes you're right about how you nitpick the point, but the point is STILL RIGHT.

"My solution to this problem on an HRP server is that antags should be allowed to act as LRP as they want but nobody else." This is hippocritical, you're criticizing security for acting too LRP and Validhunting and then in the same breath you say that antags should be allowed to act that way but security shouldn't. Also we do have reigns on security, it's called Heads, you see we like to let players deal with their issues instead of needlesly stepping in and punching down on them. You have ahelps, you have character complaints, you have IR's, you have staff complaints, you yourselves can put feedback on others heads or report to us that heads aren't acting properly and their head whitelists should be stripped. None of this has happened, instead we always get informed through some third party ranposting in discord or Forum and whenever we ask for specific names and situations we suddenly get the "Oh I don't remember, I don't know, It was so long agoooooo" If you want to solve a problem you need to put effort into solving it instead of throwing your opinions in unreletead threads. Please don't change what I said. I said, "Security are allowed to run in without RP, why aren't Antags allowed to?", I'm saying it's hypocritical to say it's OK for Security to run in without a word, but if an antag does it then it's "bad rp". If you hold one person to a standard you should ALL people to that standard. If you say antags need to try to RP out to draw a story, then why are officers not being required to try to REASON with the dangerous antag. THAT could be an interesting negotiation style RP where Security and the criminal yell at each other, the antag shouts demands, the officers try to get him to lay down his gun. How tense and amazing would that be? But no, Officer McGunnin has all the leeway to fire without a word despite that being against the Corporate procedures of ATTEMPTING a peaceful arrest first, which WOULD be good RP. Even if it was something like, "Hey you! Stop! Lay down your weapon!", then the standoff. That in itself is acceptable, but no, not enforced. Fire away wordlessly, you're an officer, not an antag.

You can make a crossbow in the game already. Wood/wire/battery/metal, in the right order, crossbow that fires metal rods. I mean... really this is Cargo's job to order these things, or Engineer's jobs to make things. There are tons of improvised weapons. You can make a metal bat and baseball swing people's heads, or you can take the handaxe as a botanist/xenobotanist and chop at people. The chef has a knife, the bartender a shotgun, Scientists can make a myriad of weapons, anyone can take metal and make a knife. There's a lot of primitive weapons available as is. -1

Going to agree with Sebbe on this. If we're going to say Antags need certain rules, then why don't Security have to follow the rules too? Bottom line is, Security is WAAAAAY to big for it's britches these days. Officers are glorified mall cops, but they run around guns blaring with no repercussions. Just today I ghosted a round where I joined in as a posibrain. Officers suddenly showed up, fired three rounds into the roboticist, and THEN said "STOP!". OK yeah... you RPed I guess... but really? You fired THREE TIMES before saying a word, and the roboticist didn't even MOVE! But if an antag did that it's BWOINK!

There are SO many IC misconceptions that people have, so I'd like to begin a list! Feel free to suggest more to add: 2) A dead body has three conditions in which it should not be cloned: Suicide/Violent Offender/Medical Records has DNC on it. 5) The Captain does not outrank NT's operating procedures. Unless there is a case that following the procedures will result in catastrophe, they should be followed. That means, if there is an emergency, follow the emergency procedures unless doing so makes the problem worse. 17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER. You're right that Execution is not legal, but per the Wiki: The NSS Aurora is in Tau Ceti space, which does not consider cyborgification capital punishment, making it an optional punishment. This means they shouldn't be cloned, they SHOULD be borged. Per the Wiki: Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not. This simply means, Captains word is not ultimate. The thing a lot of people forget, NT outranks the Captain, and Corporate law, is law made by the Captain's boss. IAA is there to enforce corporate law, and make sure that the staff heads aren't bending rules unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary for them to do so. So you're saying that the Captain is above the law, but then showing an example where my point that Security CAN arrest him is made? I'm sorry I don't think I follow how you're disagreeing with me while showing how I'm right. I didn't say they could slap a set of cuffs on him at their whim, I said they COULD arrest him and here you are showing how they can do that while saying they can't... IAA can and SHOULD know this: IAA has a fax machine in their office. That fax machine is for them to report to CCIA any station infractions that need rectification from outside sources. Simply put, if the Captain demands officers to walk around with weapons displayed during code green, and refuses to back down despite that being a clear violation of corporate regulations, he faxes CCIA, who will then make the final call (which a good IAA would never fax without knowing the answer). That being said, this has been discussed in GREAT detail in the Discord. IAA outranks no one, but can demote anyone. They have loyalty implants, and MUST follow the corporate regulations at ALL times. That is their exact job description. If someone fails to follow corporate rules, IAA reports to their staff head with the intent that the person be forced into obeying or demoted, and that applies to the Captain too. If the Captain fails to follow the Captain's boss' rules, the IAA talks to the Captain's boss, CCIA, and a message is sent to the station calling for the demotion of the Captain. True, I agree Right, you're departmentalizing a statement that was provided as a blanket statement. Yes if the RD tells a scientist to do something and the CMO tells them not to, a smart scientist will ignore the CMO's orders. That doesn't mean the RD outranks the CMO though, the staff are paid by the RD's budget, so ignoring the person who pays you is grounds for NOT being paid. It's not a question of rank, it's a question of paycheck. However yes, each department head has a place they have more control of then OTHER department heads. But that isn't to say my statement is wrong. Quartermaster is not a staff head, so HoP DOES outrank Quartermaster as a staff head. Warden is also not a staff head, and does not outrank Security Officers. HOWEVER, he DOES have the authority over the brig (not the Security department, just the cells). Following the Warden's instructions in the brig is specifically mentioned on the condition that the Warden is following Corporate's laws about HOW the brig is to be run. The Warden's job isn't to control the inmates only though, it's to PROTECT the inmates from the officers as well, that's why that authority exists. The warden is supposed to be the peaceful mediator between officers and prisoners. Interns aren't BELOW regular members of the staff, they're just less trained. That means they're often paired with more experienced staff to help them learn. But an officer can not fire a cadet. Bottom line, they don't outrank the cadet. Assistants aren't outranked by departmental employees. They're on the same level, under the department head HoP. Their job is to assist in menial tasks (from an OOC standpoint they are a position for newer players to get to know the game with). They are not outranked by regular crew. Yes, like I said before, AI has the least authority, that is correct. It has the most control, but no actual say in how it uses that control. So if you saw someone wearing that in real life you'd think they were honestly a Wizard? I fear for that mentality. I'd think they were some weirdo in a Wizard costume, an actor, or a cosplayer of some kind. Again I defer to the wiki: If you brought a sweet gun defense weapon aboard, you should keep it concealed unless it absolutely has to be fired. Command Staff has the right to prohibit you from bringing personal weapons aboard (though they shouldn't do this unless they have a good reason), and they may also impose restrictions on you that are not otherwise listed in the regulations or directives. You are a visitor on a very fancy research station - treat it and its crew with respect. This means that yes, you CAN be told that carrying a gun is illegal, and be told to bring it back to the Merchant ship. They SHOULD be telling you if it's a problem before you leave the ship. They CAN opt to tell you NEVER to bring it on station, but usually shouldn't. The fact is, they have the right to say no to you having a gun on the Aurora. Azande NanoTrasen Official Posts: 620 Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:02 pm Contact: Send private message Re: CSI Unplayable (A plea to HOS/Captain/Warden/Security)#9 ben10083 wrote: ↑ Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:41 pm Perhaps regulations should have a moderate level crime called "Impeding a Investigation" which punishes players for contaminating evidence and removing the victim from scene. Do you mean.... Sabotage? But really, none of this is an issue - if someone contaminates the scene, tell your Head of Security and continue to collect evidence. Editor of the Aurora Tribune Clerk of the NanoTrasen Worker's Association Mentor in NT-ISD Discord That is YOU calling it sabotage in another thread... that exact example no less. Did something change in the last 8 days?

I'll agree with Azande to a small degree. I don't see the favoritism myself but that might be because I almost NEVER antag. The bottom line is, yes there should be a set and clear "this is ok and that isn't" mindset for rules. Death: Is it ok/reasonable to kill a character? I think it should be with no conditions. An antag should not have to worry about being antagonistic. Killing people on a shuttle: I don't really care about this one, because the round is ENDING. If you REALLY care at that point, I have to wonder why. Once the shuttle is called, the round WILL end in 15 minutes, whether you live or die. Atmos/Fire/Etc...: If you REALLY want to try to kill the entire crew, and drain all the oxygen on the station... well there are hazard O2 lockers, there are engineers willing to fix it, there is a surplus of oxygen tanks (that honestly SHOULD spawn full). If people want to hide and turn on internals in an emergency EVA suit, they can survive. That being said, I'm a firm believer that every office should have O2 lockers IN them based on how many people should be in that office maximum. Why do I think it's OK to do all this without high RP? Because Security can come in guns blazing and THEY don't get bwoinked for stunning/capturing the Antag or even killing them if need be. Security is "just doing their job", but wasn't the antag also? I think it's a really snowflaky attitude to say you 'shouldn't be killed' by an antag. If you get killed by a coworker who wasn't an antag, YES Ahelp it. The admins SHOULD be watching out for needless violence that has no good RP behind it, but the fact is, killing as an antag HAS an excuse. Antags gotta antag! It would be nice, if for a week, antags were allowed to do ANYTHING they wanted without repercussion. I'm not saying that is the BEST way it should be, but at least for that week, we'd be able to see DEFINITIVELY, how that changes the game. THEN rules could be set to determine what constitutes TOO far. They should, for that week, be encouraged to be as crazy as they want! Let's just see how that molds the game, so we know where the real lines are.

Those are conflicting thoughts in my opinion. For something to have weight to it, it NEEDS to have a chance of failure, a long delay, a punishment for dying as it were. That IS the weight. If you feel like you can be brought back always at any time, there's no weight to death, so knowing that you will have to wait a while for a CHANCE to be brought back... THAT makes death feel more heavy. Frankly I'm of the camp that this is how it should work: Defib takes you out of crit for a while. Like, you go critical, defib removes you from critical for 60 seconds, but also does a little bit of burn damage. This allows for a way to keep people conscious without having to use injections/pills, but at the cost of temporarily hurting them. Now should the victim ALSO be receiving treatment, the burn damage will not be a problem to mitigate, and you can save a life. That's more on par with how defibs really work. Once a person dies, that (to me) should be it. You died? Guess you can come back as a different character for the round, but that guy is DEAD. The Odin (which admittedly lore wise has MUCH more sophisticated equipment, will revive you. Victims of death will be cremated on station to avoid 'clone syndrome', and the 'dna genome' that the Odin has will be used to form the clone. That way you never run the risk of running into your own body. From an OOC standpoint, you CAN always join as another character, so the punishment isn't that you can't play. But if you were working on something as Character A and did something stupid that got you killed, you'll have to try working on that the next round, because now you're Character B, or a pAI, or a mouse, or a myriad of other things ghosts can become. At the end of the day, cloning serves no benefit to a story that is based on high expectations of RP. The weight and consequence in this case is losing the character with the inability to play him this round. I don't think we need to further punish death by making players hang out as a ghost for 15+ minutes hoping for someone to gather enough resources for a revival and possibly failing (if the guy gets stopped/prioritises some other dead dude/the power goes out). As for defibs and how they work I guess if we wanted to get technical we could treat a certain period after "death" as crit (in brainmed brain is still alive some time after, for example, your heart has stopped, allowing you to be brought back. Getting over a certain brain damage threshold is what stops you from being defibbed back to life) I disagree with that though. I have 7 characters. With what you are suggesting, I could spend over an hour doing stupid stuff in rapid succession and getting killed, only to move on to the next character. And with a limit of 30 characters? There should be a defining punishment. Maybe if there were a limit of how many characters you COULD play each round, but you get say, 3. Three characters die, then you're done for the round. If a character dies, that CHARACTER is done for the round. Think before you act, and you'll never die. Hell I have died once in like... the last month of playing. I've been injured a few times, but I also don't arm up and fight antags, I run away like a normal person would in these weird scenarios.

There are SO many IC misconceptions that people have, so I'd like to begin a list! Feel free to suggest more to add: 1) Security doesn't need a warrant if an officer sees the problem. 2) A dead body has three conditions in which it should not be cloned: Suicide/Violent Offender/Medical Records has DNC on it. 3) Warden/Detective/CIA are not officers and should never be expected to act like one. They have their own duties to handle, and should be expected to handle them at all times. 4) The AI does not outrank the Captain. Station bound synthetics are the lowest rank on the station. 5) The Captain does not outrank NT's operating procedures. Unless there is a case that following the procedures will result in catastrophe, they should be followed. That means, if there is an emergency, follow the emergency procedures unless doing so makes the problem worse. 6) On that same note, the Captain should not ever be fighting alongside Security. A good Captain steps in as a department head when needed, and delegates while working with other staff heads. 7) No rank outranks another with the exception of: Captain outranks everyone, followed by staff heads, then staff, then AI. IAA is an unusual exception, who technically doesn't "outrank" anyone, but has the power to dismiss anyone of their position (including Captains), if the situation needs it (VERY rare though). 8) Metagaming is knowing ANY details about antagonists. Saw a guy in all blue with a pointed hat? I bet you think wizard. YOU think wizard, your character SHOULD be thinking, "Weird stow-away with no ID". 9) The Merchant's ship is NOT NanoTrasen property. As such, an officer standing on the Merchant's ship would be out of line if they detain the Merchant for something they did on their ship. If the Merchant begins attacking people on his own ship, it's fine to step in to protect the crew, but if the Merchant isn't hurting anyone, Security can not hold him to ANY other law legally. If he steps OFF his ship, he IMMEDIATELY agrees to follow NanoTrasen's laws though, meaning he can wave a gun around on his ship, but if he steps OFF the ship with it, officers can demand he go back to his ship to stow the gun. 10) The Chaplain isn't NECESSARILY a religious person, they might be a Councilor who is there for emotional support rather than religious support. 11) Petting a Tajara is not Sexual Assault, it're closer to Battery (unwanted physical contact). 12) A medical personnel who moves a dead body can be arrested for tampering with evidence under i221 - Gross Negligence, this has a minimum sentence of 15 minutes and/or demotion, with a maximum of 20 minutes AND/OR Demotion. Don't touch that body till CSI tells you to. 13) If an officer touches you BEFORE asking you to come with them peacefully, they are in violation of i117 - Excessive use of force in detainment. The most they can possibly do without breaking the law is apply handcuffs and lead you. If they flash you and you didn't move, they've broken the law. Even if VERBALLY you rejected them, force it to be used against people who RESIST, not people who verbally DISAGREE. 14) In code yellow, you are still to be treated as if it were code green, but if an officer says they need into your office to deal with a threat, you're breaking the law not to let them in. It must be a reasonable request though. "I need to get in there to deal with the blob", is a fair request that you should comply with. 15) If someone killed you somewhat pointlessly, it's OK to ask admin if that was a valid kill. If they tell you it is, be kind, thank them for their help and tell them you don't need additional help. If however they tell you it was valid and you yell at them about how you think it wasn't, ask the next person you see to flick your ear as hard as they can, you've earned it. 16) A 'valid' is a kill that is within the rules. 17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER. 18) No position is EVER a defacto position for a higher rank. Warden =/= HoS when there is no HoS, HoP =/= Captain when no Captain is present. NO ranks do that. 19) Security doesn't assess guilt, they assess threat. If they arrest you and you were innocent, you MIGHT be charged as guilty simply because the evidence IMPLIES you're guilty, and the arrest is to prevent threat. That's why they're called SECURITY officers and not POLICE officers. Their duty is keeping the station as a whole safe, not policing behavior. This is also why they handle threats like Carp and Spiders. Station Security. 20) You can resign from you position if you don't like your staff head, and be temporarily demoted to Visitor/Assistant. From a lore standpoint, this should be SUPER rare, as you wouldn't get paid for that. But if you just can't stand him/her anymore, stop dealing with them, and file an IR complaint. If you CAN stand to deal with them, you can still file an IR complaint, and simply keep working too. If they retaliate to a valid complaint, CCIA will bully them into submission.

I think the root of the problem should be addressed. Make virology more accessible. Right now it's one of the few departments that 100% relies on other departments to function. Without a chemist/CMO, virology does NOTHING. Make virology able to make it's own chemicals, and Virologists (like myself) will play Virologists more.

Those are conflicting thoughts in my opinion. For something to have weight to it, it NEEDS to have a chance of failure, a long delay, a punishment for dying as it were. That IS the weight. If you feel like you can be brought back always at any time, there's no weight to death, so knowing that you will have to wait a while for a CHANCE to be brought back... THAT makes death feel more heavy. Frankly I'm of the camp that this is how it should work: Defib takes you out of crit for a while. Like, you go critical, defib removes you from critical for 60 seconds, but also does a little bit of burn damage. This allows for a way to keep people conscious without having to use injections/pills, but at the cost of temporarily hurting them. Now should the victim ALSO be receiving treatment, the burn damage will not be a problem to mitigate, and you can save a life. That's more on par with how defibs really work. Once a person dies, that (to me) should be it. You died? Guess you can come back as a different character for the round, but that guy is DEAD. The Odin (which admittedly lore wise has MUCH more sophisticated equipment, will revive you. Victims of death will be cremated on station to avoid 'clone syndrome', and the 'dna genome' that the Odin has will be used to form the clone. That way you never run the risk of running into your own body. From an OOC standpoint, you CAN always join as another character, so the punishment isn't that you can't play. But if you were working on something as Character A and did something stupid that got you killed, you'll have to try working on that the next round, because now you're Character B, or a pAI, or a mouse, or a myriad of other things ghosts can become. At the end of the day, cloning serves no benefit to a story that is based on high expectations of RP.

I'd like to give a few thoughts on this: 1) In reality, a defibrillator is made to correct heart rhythm, not restart a stopped heart. It's a common misconception that they're used to restart the heart, but that simply isn't the case. If the heart is beating in a strange rhythm, the intent is, BRIEFLY stop the heart so it resets in rhythm. 2) Having defibs, encourages medical to rush to every recent death to "save" them. In previous topics, I've discussed how medical already tampers with criminal scenes and endangers crew by rushing to the injured. Sometimes, people get injured for a reason outside of medical's control, for instance, if a person attacks them. Rushing to the scene endangers the medical personnel, and increases the risk of upsetting antagonists into harming other crew members. For this reason, defibs add an OOC desire to "save", which causes IC negative backlash. In truth, I think Medical should ONLY ever go to an injured person when help is requested. And if they detect someone has died, contacting SECURITY should be the priority, not bringing back the dead. If you want to see an improvement in RP, make death have a consequence, make it take LONGER to be brought back. Make it difficult for Medical to get to a dead body, not easier and faster. The reason defibs work so well on some servers, is they don't care about the RP nature of life and death. The game centers around the 'find antag/eliminate antag' mentality. If someone dies or gets wounded, that's where the antag likely is, so everyone should RUSH there to capture them. In an HRP setting though, we should look at reality for suggestions. In reality, people don't expect medical to rush to the recently deceased, they expect police to, so they can investigate WHY there was a dead body. I like the idea of defibrillators having a use, but not to bring back dead bodies. It would be nice if during surgeries, small risks could happen that cause certain things to be required. For instance, an artery gets nicked and now you need to 'apply stitches' to seal it. The trauma of surgery causes the heart to begin slowing down, give it a jolt to speed it up with the defib. This makes surgery more of a minigame than a list of 100% successful steps. Failing to react could cost a patient their life, which gives an RP chance between CMO and surgeon, a chance for the CMO to confront the surgeon and discuss the mistake. It also adds punishment for dumb behavior, like jolting yourself on a door because you decided you needed to know how to hack doors even though you're not an antag, and don't have gloves. Well now you get to spend some time unconscious, and POSSIBLY even dead, because you couldn't just act like a normal person. Because of this reasoning, I will recommend against this idea. -1 EDIT: Beyond all this, I ALSO agree about wanting to take out cloning. Death should count for something on an HRP server.

I'd say that the slug has no direct control over most people, but if the person SSD's, then it could be safe to say the slug could have an option to take over completely. That way the slug isn't just SOL. Like, if you go to a cryo tube with a slug in you, and you ghost. The body just instantly is taken over instead of vanishing, and the other person can now be you. People might notice "Boy he's acting strange", because the borer has "destroyed too much of the brain and is now winging it". As for the power struggle, it would be somewhat meta gaming to CONSTANTLY ignore the borer, but for instance, if the borer says something drastic, that might just make the person confused. "You feel like committing suicide", "But I'm happy... so that was a weird thought. Maybe I should see the psychiatrist." However, the guy who's been on the station for a while, "You feel like taking a break, it would be nice to go talk to the Head of Personnel and see how their day is." "You know what? That's a good idea, I'll go see the HoP". The trick is, the borer would have to find the things the character would consider 'acceptable' thoughts without making the person so confused by their own thoughts that they see a psych. If the person is a workaholic, being told that they want to take a break would be odd. If they're lazy, and being told to work harder, that would feel strange. That's the struggle.