lilahnovi

Isn't there a rule about derailing? I clarified to King that this was just a rp guide for folks if they felt like using it, and fixed my post up. This has nothing to do with antag draft... 😭

I am not debating anything nor attempting to reheat anything, nor are any policy changes being suggested. I'm making a little RP guide for people to consider and adopt if they vibe with it. This is literally just a "hey, here's a neat conversation I had with someone, maybe you might like to know about it." Maybe I should clarify at the beginning. I felt like it didn't belong in the "remove borging" thread, as that's not even close to the point I was trying to make. I already added my thoughts there. I just wanted to put the idea out there as something neat and tidy. I considered putting it in general, but I wasn't entirely sure. I felt this area of the forum was the best place to stick it. If it's been mentioned in a 3-page thread, I didn't quite find it. Nobody needs to adhere to this. If there was a brainstorming category, I would be happy to put it in there.

THIS IS JUST AN RP GUIDE TO CONSIDER AND ADOPT IF YOU VIBE WITH IT. I'm not here to kick up some other debate, nor am I suggesting any policy change. If you dislike it, that's fine. Different narrative strokes for different narrative folks. So, this started from a conversation between myself and another player, and I thought it was neat and wanted to present it. There is kind of this view that marooning is the merciful option, while borging is the horrible option. Marooning is pretty horrible, too, but I think there is a way to better frame these punishments and guide their use in a more equal way. Why decide on one or the other? Or be 'merciful?' or be more cruel? It doesn't have to be one of these two options. Instead, you might consider... are they an outsider or part of the community? What message does the punishment serve to send? Marooning - the option for crewmembers I personally think on a narrative level that marooning is much better and much more symbolic for crew members. You are ousting them from their home, their community, and they are being exiled. It is done to punish a member of the group. You're not just leaving them on a rock - you're letting them know they're not with you anymore. They're alone in the Spur now. You broke our trust, and now you've lost the ability to be cared for by the group in this very harsh place. You might MIGHT get lucky, and get picked up by someone (yeah right) -- but more likely, you'll run out of supplies, and then die suffocating. The punishment says, "Out here, you are nothing without us." I think we sometimes have a mistaken tendency to treat members of crew who are antag as suddenly not part of the crew. But they are called 'traitor' for a reason. Exile them, and show them what being a traitor gets them. Borging - the option for outsiders If someone is an intruder, and they are trying to take from you, borging feels more thoughtful. You are essentially forcing that person to come and serve your community against their will, make them pay for, work for, or replace what was lost. It's a fantastic punishment for someone who comes in to your village, your home, and makes a mess. It's also more realistically grim and terrifying - borging is done to people outside your 'group' as both a punishment and warning. "Hey, see this guy? He had the nerve to come into our community, and try and harm us. Well, look at him now. Let this be a warning to show what we do to those who think they can come in here and do whatever they please." Remember, framing can do a ton of legwork, and can lead to more satisfying outcomes, and make it feel like command is doing things for the sake of the crew, which leads to more loyalty. P.S. ------------------ More framing, but less about marooning and borging. Just a tangent! As a side bit that was also part of that conversation - I think that command should be more willing to consider the potential outcome of a decision, even if it's non-canon and the round is coming to an end. Play as if the story is continuing in some alternate universe. Would it make sense to do something that angers half the crew and puts a target on your back? There is something of a duty to keep things orderly and keep up group cohesion (if you're a good member of leadership anyhow.) It's important to remember that this ship is a home for people. We're a village flying in space, and the crew are your neighbors, so it's better to do right by them (or at least present the veneer that you are doing so.) It's fundamentally more interesting when a corporation has a shiny face that is trying to hide their dirty laundry and nastiness behind suits and perks. They're acting for themselves on the bottom line and don't care about you, yes -- but they don't like to particularly look that way. It's bad for business, and corporations do take "Reputation Risk" into account financially. That's why the event pirates being borged was not mentioned in the papers. The entire Horizon is an effort in keeping this veneer up as I see it - "Watch us save the Spur. We'll find those new reserves, and everything will be okay again. Also, look how well our employees live. So many wonderful amenities. We really do care about you." In that, it would be conducive to their mission to make sure command at least tries to upkeep this and save face where it can. Maybe try your best not to break down the illusion by implying, "of course you work for a terrible corporate dystopia and have no rights, what did you think this was?" Protect the assets by protecting the image!

Or maybe just a box where you an input the character's birthday, without the year? Like, under age in the character set up, we stick in-- March 3! Or whatever. At least then we have some idea of people's birthdays and it's not something the server has to recalculate.

I will tack onto this an extra $50 or however much it takes to make the bounty $75. LOL Just because it's such a good idea. I agree that using monkeys seems sort of jacked up. I get it, they're cube monkeys and all that ("they have no brain functions!" some say...), but then what do you do with the occasional live one that won't stand up anymore? I also feel like dummies are just better in various given ways. You can have someone practice on someone who has lots of different injury and status circumstances (without having to take it somewhere dark and commit animal abuse lmfao). We can't exactly give a monkey kois lung or phoron poisoning without issues, but clicking a preset or a set of simulated injuries? Now we're spicy. But anyhow, it can be improved upon as time goes on with more advanced capabilities. I think making it something that is wrenched might be odd, especially if you need to make a scan of it. But I get your thinking on it. It would just be nice to have the training dummy named something silly like ELI (Experience Learning for Interns? LOL) that doctors can drag around and poke and bother. Also dummies like this are, in the year 2023, a real thing. Here's a video that shows it (CW: organs, gore-lite. Kind of looks... really really like someone was just CUT in half lmao. Don't watch if that sort of thing bothers you. http://www.businessinsider.com/realistic-medical-dummy-helps-medical-students-practice-surgery-2016-11 )

Everyone's talked about this quite a bit, but I just wanted to add in my thoughts, at 4a.m. because why am I still awake? it's a mystery... Important TLDR bits are in Bold and COLOR! I honestly think borging had been over-used and and used flippantly recently. I've been playing regularly in the last year and suddenly in the last few months it has ramped up. Especially with the event -- the pirates surrendered, and then they were borged in like a split second? That seems like a messed up decision to make (from multiple angles, trying to be grim or not). I'm not really sure what to make of it, and it doesn't make sense to me. It just felt rushed, I suppose-- though I am still rping the outcome on my character's poor little brain. A character of mine pointed out that this does another thing: Borging punishes a mechanist with a kind of trauma they may not be able to handle and should not be forced to undertake. They didn't do anything wrong. Honestly, realistically, it would take a special kind of person to do this task. The fact that I had some command member say to my psyche "Hey, check on the mechanist btw, that was really hard on her" after they were ordered to borg someone is evidence enough that something about this feels kind of odd. OOC, even. It frustrated me as a player. Saying, "well, that's their job" is a little bit insane because you can work as a mechanist wherever and never have to basically murder-imprison a person ever in your life. It would be exceedingly rare, I would imagine. Like, we live in super future land -- make a machine that does it for you if it's so vitally important to make your brain robots, or have synthetics whose entire existence is to do this task (maybe run by a ghost or an admin or something. The borging crew lmfao) But on an OOC level... something about borging just makes me sick. Something about it is so icky (perhaps the same way lobotomies really fuck me up, especially because it's something that many women had to endure.) There's just also some level of weird consent things around it that really make me drastically uncomfortable. Maybe it's supposed to feel like that, but it's not treated that way at all. It's honestly never felt fun when it happens, though perhaps others disagree (except I believe in one circumstance where someone was turned into a borg by an antag, and that was really interesting for them) It feels like a "Fuck you, wipe your brain, but you're not dead, and now you have to serve me!" cop-out or something. ( I can't help but think it's like the ultimate example of 9 year olds playing pretend cops and robbers and then powergaming/godmodding, and going, "nuh uh, you're dead and now you're my zombie that has to do everything I say!") I will note, I've never been ICly borged or anything like that. In my opinion, it's too easy to do, and straight up, I don't think the only options should be 'marooning' or 'borging' and they are weighed equally -- because holy shit they do not feel equal. I feel like borging should be one of those fucked up taboo super final options. It's done in secret. You can't just watch it through a window (so weird) and honestly it should be taken as such a potentially unpopular action that command is hush-hush about it, because of the wider implications of what could happen. It should be something that they sweat and be nervous about doing. They SHOULD be nervous to do it. It should be done very carefully. You are doing something that is considered pretty evil by a large number of people. Even Dystopia tries to keep its dirty laundry out of view. Doing it at the end of the round just because marooning would take too much time or something is also very frustrating, because you just get to be a helpless actor. It often sort of puts you in this place where the last 10 minutes of a round absolutely tanks, and people just feel bad and helpless and everyone's given up on trying. Don't do this, for the love of god. It just leaves a gross taste in everyone's mouth. Hold until end. Anyway, please treat borging with the actual gravity it deserves, since I guess we're keeping this awful mechanic. - Consider your mechanist, PLEASE. - Consider the act itself deeply and potential ramifications on the vessel community that your character lives in. - If you'd be better off just rping and questioning the antag or something, do that. - You DON'T have to end every round with the antags being given their ultimate punishment!! There is no reason to rush this. You don't have to actually carry out the act if some better rp can be had keeping them alive - and I can think of a million and one ways better rp would have been had with many of the borgings in memory. My two cents turned into 20$. Go spend it on some fancy ice cream or coffee or something. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- I woke up and wanted to add something. I wanted to add that I think Ramke makes it pretty clear and the perimeters are good (and genuinely not always considered or followed.) Please take note of the and in the first sentence. It should be treated as a "without a doubt" type of situation. I think this is a good measure to consider when deciding whether to ahelp or not. Was it a quick decision? Were witnesses saying 'wait, it's not like that'? Was the Captain acting on frustration or emotion? Or did it feel measured and reasonable? I hope the "ahelp it" folks can understand that sometimes it's just a gut feeling, and getting strict "they did this wrong" boundaries may not appear. It may be harder to investigate a gut feeling, and that's why people may not be sure about ahelping it and instead just stew in their bad feels.

I can at least say that this was not your fault in any regard. Command ordered everyone but essential people off of comms, so engaging with antags over the comms was a little bit tough. Totally understand why the call was made, as things were starting to get a little chaotic. (Unless in this case you are meaning crew as in essential crew, then ignore me.)

The purpose would be for the situations when "oops all of service has entirely exploded" which has happened a few times now on events and some other situations. The purpose isn't "there's a shooter go to the bunker." The thing is, nobody is 'figuring out where to hunker down.' We all go to the central ring and hang out where there is nowhere to sit, the space is wide open and difficult to reoxygenate, and everyone stands right in front of the entrance, getting in the way. This is essentially our "safe room" when service goes belly up. Then we stand around and be nervous. Yesterday, when the Levi was shot, there were not enough chairs for people to buckle down into and there was nowhere for them to go, so they just were flung around. The space is too large as is and taken up by the starmap (which is fine for a fancy central ring, not fine for an emergency evac space). The occasional person goes out to get stuff, but for the most part, people hang out in the one spot and watch the world go by nervously. This is also the purpose of the restricted (probably to hallways and general areas) camera feeds for the safe room. It gives people something they can look at and talk about. Everyone is more together and organized. RP is easier and more engaging, especially because you know who is there in the first place, and who is gone when people go out to get supplies or do something (it's very chaotic when engineers, doctors, and sec are running around in the middle of your group, and it's very difficult when they have to push people out of the way to get where they need to go). Every workplace I've ever been to has a safe place for people to go when there is dangerous weather, usually an auditorium. When/if there is an active shooter, we're ordered to stay in our departments/classrooms/etc and hide. It wouldn't make any sense to evacuate everyone to a bunker when there is a shooter. The conversation in the relay OOC channel where this originated was thoughtful, and why I ended up posting the suggestion in the end. Nobody mentioned that it would become "code red, go to your room" because that doesn't make sense anyway.

This event was interesting, I liked it. Especially with the ship being messed up across arounds. One thing it made me consider though -- it would be really nice if there was something akin to a crew bunker - perhaps something that unlocks when the alert is raised. Being in the center ring can suck a lot for a number of reasons -- in many cases, we're just in the way of security, engineering, and often medical who is trying to use the mechanist or RnD to evac. As well, it's often hard to reoxygenate, and we have to maker a fat mess, dragging lockers into the place. We talked a bit about this in OOC - consider making Holodeck Beta into the new crew bunker - maybe with access to the showers? Hmmm!

Gilt is fun, interesting and their characters are memorable. They play antag in lots of cool ways. I think she'll be able to add some interesting rp to the mix. +1 from me.

The thing here is, I do not believe my character's existence, my actions, and any story stuff involving Lisette honestly has any relevancy to the judgement or consideration whatsoever. You did imply that it was a problem, with how you worded it. Your response only makes it worse that you mentioned it, because what I just said refuted anything about it 'being weird/gross/contributing to something bannable.' I think it's just an attempt to make someone OOCly look bad for IC actions without actual knowledge of any character narrative with nuance. I don't care if it's private or not, that makes no difference to me. I post to set the record straight on what I view as ad hominem and red herring, because it was presented was a supposed bit of proof for Marcus being 'gross' or Birdie being a 'liar' and because it has nothing to do with the interaction between Metella and Marcus. So, I'll explain in a really concise way, to help summarize my former post (and why this sentence is misleading and NOT an actual problem, and should not be included in 'proof of his overall character') just in case it wasn't clear the first time: Tried cheating: Cheating was retconned but for the sake of clarity - he kissed one person who was flirting with him after the both of them had drinks (the player of the person kissed knew that Marcus was involved with someone - it was an attempt to whip up some drama). The other circumstance involved someone who was pursuing him. He never acted on that one, and was in fact quite stressed about it in private interaction. We rp'd that out. I even watched a number of those rounds. We talked about everything OOCly as a potential storyline and the way he reacts to things, since Marcus is a character with a weakness for people he finds attractive and sometimes gets himself in tangles. Even if he did it, it would just be a story beat of a character flaw, not proof of 'gross roleplay.' It's an 'open secret' because he's a little bit of a mess. Ten years: Yeah. They talked about it and worked it out like adults. Lisette is not a child - she is a grown woman that can make her own decisions. I honestly find it a little gross, the implication that a 25 year old woman can't make her own relationship choices. As a 32 year old woman in real life, I actually find this mindset incredibly messed up and implies she can't think for herself. His subordinate: They originally began dating when they were both bridge crew, and on the same level of authority. They spoke extensively about the move up to XO, worked out how they would navigate it, and he asked Lisette if it would be okay with her that he was getting a promotion. She was fine with this, and stated they should do their best to stay professional and cordial. Again. They're adults. The reason I point all this out is for the staff considering judgement, because it's not relevant. It only seemed like the purpose was to take a passive-aggressive swipe, and I don't appreciate it. (And, I just want to add this: A person can be a philanderer, and want to get to know people and make friends. Those things are not mutually exclusive, nor is it a 'lie.' I literally dated a guy like this in real life - tried to be good friends with everyone, but would always run into issues when he inevitably developed feelings for some of them - causing many huge blowups and constant relationship strife.)

Hi, since I played Marcus's SO and for some reason she was brought up, I would like to add in on this a bit. Cheating thing was retconned, since all parties involved had a conversation and we didn't like the potential outcome for our stories. I would really, really like it if something involving my character was not used as "evidence." The reason why Lisette left was because I just don't have the motivation to play her currently, so we worked out something. Even though it didn't happen, cheating is a thing that happens. People do it. They are flawed. This can make stories interesting. I was totally willing to go with it, as long as the other parties were cool with the consequences. They weren't, so we drew back on it. I personally see no issue with the age gap - they talked about it. Age gaps happen. Sometimes you fall in love. That's just how life goes. My parents and grandparents have an age gap, my husband and I have one too. Mature adults can work these things out. However, for the record, he was pursuing a woman much older than him before he and Lisette met, so it's not as if it's a thing for him. In fact, he was nervous because Lisette was younger, but she reassured him. They also got together when they were both bridge crew, and she was not his subordinate at the time. The characters talked about it like adults and worked out how they would navigate it when he was brought up to XO. Since my character is not involved in this in any reasonable sense, I would appreciate it not being used. It's not really fair to include it. I keep my rps to my private server because I hate losing logs and I hate having people watch me while I'm trying to write prose.

I personally don't feel muscle-memory is going to make this better. There are extra clicks involved to switch categories, and the lists just get longer. I have to click a tag to make it go away, rather than just selecting another tag, which would help with making it feel intuitive (e.g. clicking ears - done with ears - click ears again - Now click hat. Instead of clicking ears - done with ears - now click hat.) In the end, I just find myself clicking only one tag on the top, because I'm not going to bother with everything else, and scrolling through the now-extended list of things, which now makes it feel worse than before. I get the feeling more than a few people might end up doing this - or maybe I just know what I'm looking for, and I'm just not going to bother with all the tags. Plus, extra tags makes it feel like I'm definitely going to miss something I might find useful, so I tend to apply more broad tags overall. Also, visually, this is not kind. At all. It's too busy, and the categories (item slot tags, misc tags, etc) do not match up with the clickable tags. It just feels like a gigantic pile of words salad. Maybe if there were lines to separate each category, it might feel a little more visually intuitive. Sure, there is a probably a better way to do the loadout system. I don't think this is it. It might have been good as an optional bit to empower the search system, however. Something you could use to find that thinger you want. I can see that being useful.

Thank you! That does clear things up. I will do my best to write something interesting!

Mostly, my motives were fairly simple. "Give Saladas a face, since my character keeps talking about the place and what it looks like." I'd be happy to write a mock up, and I considered doing that, but I had a snag (maybe it's a personal nitpick, but it's a wall none the less): I'm not sure where on the page this would go. Would it be plopped under Major Cities? Is Saladas a major city? Would a 'Minor Cities' section, where smaller blurbs reside be more fitting? At least for a mock-up I would make, I don't know if I would explain very much in terms of history, or economy, since my focus is big on the look and geography of the city, so it may be more suited for a 'minor city' badge rather than a major one. After all, Saladas has nothing more than its name, and what continent it's in. However, as long as nobody on the lore team has some ideas or strong feelings about Saladas, I could see what I could whip up in terms of its culture/history/economy more broadly. I have more experience with something like Dominia + Schwann, where there's just a person I can talk to to get the nitty gritty from - Mictlan, as far as I know, doesn't quite have this? I just don't want to be stepping on someone's toes, and I've never made a lore app before, so I'm diving in a little bit blind. Sorry for all the unsureness! Thank you!