Eliot Clef

Alright. Now that we've had a pretty good amount of time on the new map, I want to bring up an issue that was brought up repeatedly before and got no traction because it was too soon to even consider doing anything about it: The bridge is very vulnerable to nukeops in addition to being in a part of the station no one has any reason to go near most of the time. Even if there's someone there there is almost zero risk in approaching it, and by extension, the tools they need to blow the entire station level and everyone in it up. The AI is hilariously, incredibly vulnerable to nukeops, but would be equally vulnerable to anybody capable of cooking up tank transfer bombs. Unlike the bridge there is ACTUALLY zero risk to blowing the AI up. Decent-sized tank transfer bombs placed behind the AI Chamber are sufficient to destroy most of it, and if the AI isn't killed outright, it provides trivial access either for theft, murder, or a follow-up bombing. NukeOps choose to use this vulnerability very, very often. I have never seen this turn out badly for them, ever. These issues become less pronounced if nukeops do not have default access to multiple tank transfer bombs.

Relax, and don't push! Usually it takes a good handful of days. As an aside to the overall topic, while I don't wish to +1 or -1 Cobracoco007, I do think it warrants mentioning that he has a lot of learning to do. I think he's well-meaning and I don't think he will be or HAS been a deliberate problem, but I have had two incidents with him recently: * As an Internal Affairs Agent in dead hour, he changed Wang Shui and Karina Miller's names in the employment records to Dong Shui and Bitch respectively. When pursued for arrest, he ran away for a brief time and then disconnected. * As a Security Officer, he was complicit in beating a restrained and compliant antag to death. (Sort of. It was a changeling so the long-term consequences were nil.) Notably, he acknowledged that he messed up big time here very quickly, and tried to role play distress at committing manslaughter and the consequences thereof in a fit of panic.

The amount of times I've wanted to scream this at people is ridiculous. If someone made an IR about you in real life. You wouldn't see it and be able to read it. You wait until the equiv of the DO/IA sends a formal letter to you or visits you or your manager calls you into the office. While I understand the reasoning, I think it's a lot more dangerous to deny people the ability to submit rebuttals than it is to simply allow it to happen. Incident Reports leading to Duty Officer visits are fairly disruptive to the people who have to deal with them, and Incident Reports are sometimes quite frivolous and slanted. Admittedly, I think I've only ever offered rebuttals as slaved synthetics, which I am fairly confident would be tapped for information concerning Incident Reports on their shifts.

If you've decided that Security is just categorically awful players -- which you have, with the stated intention to simply kill the entire sec team whenever you can -- there's no real point in engaging you in any kind of prolonged discussion. I'm not inclined to deal with this kind of naked aggression very much, and I doubt there are a whole lot of people who are more willing than I am. I've personally stopped using some Security tools (mainly cameras) specifically because it makes it too easy to catch antags unacceptably early if you use them right. I've also gone to talk to antags and immediately gotten fireballed in the face for my trouble. Lately, I've actually had way more problems with non-antags than with antags, but that's another problem for other threads. EDIT: I actually enjoy it when Haruspex roams around acting Overtly Weird/Irregular. Have people really pulled guns on you for this? Did you report it? Because that shit does need to be reported.

Perhaps as a less extreme alternative, we could cap off each weekend with Monday-Tuesday being extended? Though, Swat's idea is pretty good too.

You are part of the problem. This, as outlined above, is literally the problem. You're not offering any solutions, but rather encouraging the perpetuation of the problem, saying we "might as well get used to it." Did you post this to validate your own actions, or to actually weigh in and help us figure out how to make the server a more enjoyable experience for everyone? I'm seriously curious about what would possibly lead you to think this was constructive in any way. Yep. This kind of behavior causes a feedback loop that trains Security to not give people a whole lot of breathing room.

I'm all for Skull's idea of requiring people to be around for a while before Security unlocks for them, but requiring an application to be submitted to play security is just going to make security dry up. Particularly since security is already a high-stress job where you get called shit even if you're doing the job perfectly acceptably.

BYOND Key: Aedan, playing as IAM (Security Officer) Player Byond Key: Cobracoco007 as Ondoncil Veigel (Forensic Tech), Concorde as Konrad Brecht (Detective), and A Royale With Cheese as Burt Bovin (Security Officer) Staff involved: It was ahelped, and Ryfer was the last one to discuss it with me. Reason for complaint: Ondoncil was playing a Forensic Tech, Konrad Brecht was playing a Detective. They discovered that Sean Crawe, who was a changeling, was some kind of mutant and decided to bring him in. I believe he was trying to eat somebody's corpse, the details of which I didn't really catch past a point. When they did so, they took him into the crime lab. I went to check on them a short time later, to make sure they had him handled -- though I had told them to WAIT, particularly if their stories of his arm-leaf blade mutation thing (I forget their exact words) were true. Shortly after I was let into the Crime Lab, Konrad Brecht unloaded his revolver into Sean Crawe, who was restrained in cuffs and as far as I could see, compliant with the arrest. I immediately apprehended Brecht and moved to process him, when Ondoncil started screaming for help. I went back, Brecht still in cuffs behind me, to find Ondoncil beating Crawe to death with a crowbar. Both were screaming about what I was doing for most of the time, and I ended up apprehending Ondoncil. Crawe died, but as he was a changeling it didn't matter much. He played possum until later in the round. For the rest of the round, Brecht was rambling on and on about how he would walk away from the charges levied at him, and rambling about how aliens were scum. Ondoncil was much more humble, and admitted he screwed up. I can't tell if Brecht was just putting up a front ICly or if he OOCly believed his actions were justified. I think Ondoncil probably learned his lesson, but I'm less certain about Brecht. Burt Bovin is a much more minor secondary complaint. When the situation was explained to him, he questioned whether or not due process was being carried out, and made statements to the effect of thinking that Konrad and Ondoncil's actions were correct. In the case of Ondoncil Veigel, I think the lesson was most likely learned. In the case of Konrad Brecht, I'm not sure. In the case of Burt Bovin, I find it extremely suspect for somebody playing Security to be OK with the defacto execution of a prisoner. Regardless, I would like a paper trail to exist. I'm not necessarily seeking action, but I do want the events of this round to be out in the open. Approximate Date/Time: 6/7/2015, between 9:15 and 11:17 PM CST.

I objected to this the last time it came up, and I'm objecting to it again now. If there are problematic ERT members, you need to be noting down their names and making complaints to get them blacklisted. If we're getting too many newbie ERT members, we can require people to have played for X amount of time before they're allowed to go ERT. An actual ERT whitelist is going to mean ERT never gets filled. ERT needs unambiguous, overriding authority that doesn't require a bunch of nonsense internal politics or ifs/ands/buts that may involve having to contend with potentially compromised Heads of Staff being able to countermand their orders. Yes, even the Troopers.

So, I was in the middle of this round as IAM: Yes, Sleepy and Ryfer were kind of chucklefucking. No, it wasn't really sexual, at least not deliberately so. I guess it could probably have some sexual undertones but it was played for absurdity, like some kind of Loony Toons short. It was also dead hour extended nonsense, which I would strongly advise to take into account. ICly, this was only such a headache because people decided that the silliness warranted repeated arrests, brig time, and demotions. Strictly speaking, what would the round have been without this silliness? It would've mostly been the Chef putting blood in space cleaner and freaking people out a little. I think there may be some content in this whole thing that should be avoided in the future, but I don't think Ryfer and Sleepy were really that... big a deal? I thought it was funny as hell, but I also wasn't really one of the people trying to put a stop to it. In all, I think the entire situation was taken more seriously than it needs to be.

We've been really good about not looping back into this absurd idea for a while. Can we not? Also, yeah, this validhunting nonsense has been a bigger problem recently. I don't think it's actually a significant increase in this behavior in regulars, but rather, a consequence of summer and therefore getting more new players. As people have been noting in-game, there's a lot of new faces recently. The increase in violence, and for that matter, in violent games modes is pretty easy to attribute to this.

This idea is pretty much exactly what it says on the tin. Available to Traitors and NukeOps, the drones would be identical to those spawned during NMV Icarus random events, and would in fact prompt the same message to the station, but wouldn't target anyone wearing an agent card. Each purchase should come with a remote control (or perhaps a PDA cartridge) with a one-time use to spawn a drone, along with perhaps a "summon drone" option similar to the ability to summon Securitrons/Beepsky for security. High cost, probably 6-8 telecrystals for a regular traitor, giving enough extra crystals to get an agent card and something else small. Maybe higher for nukeops to prevent them from having an absolute army of the things. Maybe an option to have drones with different armaments. Taser, Ion, Lethal/Lasers, Lethal/Ballistics.

Promoting people into positions that are necessary, including Head positions, is literally a job position on the station. The Head of Personnel exists for this, and a part of playing the Head of Personnel well is recognizing need in a department and funneling people into that department when they have an appropriate skill set. We shouldn't have non-whitelisted players using this to get around not being whitelisted, but it's OK if whitelist/frequent Heads join in other roles and then get promoted. As for the overall topic: I think it depends a lot on what skills we're talking about. I think Science in particular is well-justified in having broad skill sets, and should be able to do stuff like machine building and the like. And I honestly think that, with the possible exception of Miner, just about every job in QM is a job that anybody is reasonably qualified for in a pinch. So... this really depends on context.

Yes, please. But I think this is already a work-in-progress.

BYOND Key: Aedan Accused Players Byond Key: Quinton Briner / Ckey Unknown Time of Act: 4:00-4:22 A.M. CST, on 6/1/2015. Reason for Ban: Mixed high-yield bombs during dead hour extended with apparent intent to detonate them. Evidence: I can't really provide logs because the accused didn't get the opportunity to use their bombs. Sybil Rosetta-Sigma discovered that they'd been mixing and transporting high-yield bombs, and called for Security to apprehend them. When Vira De Santos and I found him apprehended by Beepsky, he had a destination tagger specifying the HoP's office and a detonator rigged to frequency 149.7, code 40. We investigated the HoP's office, discovered two tank transfer bombs, and concluded that he didn't have any more bombs on the station after Sybil checked how many transfer valves were missing. The bombs were dismantled, he was thrown in solitary, and now I'm writing this report! He went SSD shortly after being caught, and long before being placed in solitary. One bomb was tested on the range, because it was destroyed and one valve was missing but unaccounted for.

I was there when this happened, playing Scavenger at the time. Can confirm that it was basically the end of the round, and all other details. To be frank, Lauren was pretty much cornered no matter what she did. She was wanted for murder (which I overheard from sec's radio and I suspect she did too), Centurion was there and ready to arrest her, I think there was a security borg nearby. Grabbing Ana and beating her to (near) death removed an obstacle, but she ran into escape -- then filled with people -- and got caught pretty immediately. Admittedly, Ana is extremely dangerous. Probably one of the most dangerous members of Security to have to fight. If I were going to prioritize taking down a member of security pending a potential combat situation, Ana probably would be at the top of my list.

So hey, you know how we don't have blue secborgs yet? It looks to me like there's already a partial sprite in the code at least, in the form of the statues at the wizard den. I think these would be a pretty good additional option for secborgs.

OR you can make a powered crowbar that -- slowly -- allows you to pry open active airlocks.

I disagree. The balance of combat in Space Station 13 is heavily influenced by the likelihood of being removed from the round plus the ease of being returned to the round. As was discussed in the Great Genetics Thread of 2015, SS13's lethality levels are balanced on the ease of being resurrected. For an IPC, the consequences of losing a fight are much more serious than for anybody else in the game, and they're already seriously fragile from a couple of different directions. Explosive limbs? I'm unclear on how IPC limbs are a weakness but I keep seeing it mentioned, and instant death from EMP of any kind. I also understand that IPCs are somewhat more vulnerable to laser weaponry, though I have to admit I've never seen it in action. Their options if they get brought down are: Stay dead, become slaved beep boop. That's assuming anybody bothers to treat their corpse properly, a lot of people don't even know what to do with a dead IPC. I don't really have a problem with the brute damage resistance being re-examined in and of itself, but I do think the IPC weaknesses should be re-examined as a whole if that's going to happen.

Does it ignore riot helmets? I was targeting head pretty much the entire time, and it didn't seem to help.

Josh's biggest claim to fame on this server, in my perception, is playing Winston Carton -- a dirty cop who often played the part of nukeop. He's very accommodating of antags, even as a member of Security. You're aiming accusations of bias at an individual who has a longstanding history of the opposite sort of behavior. Primarily when some cultists started camping arrivals and cryogenics, apparently. Security apprehended a number of individuals on Neglect of Duty. On the surface it can be argued that Security went on to commit a violation of i214, Exceeding Official Powers, but that depends on what EvilBrage (the Warden) has to say about his intentions and what the logs demonstrate about the same. As has been indicated, the power outage caused by Engineering's hissy fit deprived the normal brig of power at the time, somewhat justifying the use of the permabrig as a temporary holding area. I can verify this lack of power, because by the time of the jailbreak the brig required a crowbar to navigate at all. The people who suffered the most from the cult victory weren't Security. They mostly got folded into the cult, from what I could see.

Josh was not a participant to the best of my knowledge, although somebody can correct me if I'm wrong. He was a Moderator-Observer, the only one on during this round, and most likely flooded with ahelps/outrage and unreasonable social situations. As he was not a participant, it cannot be said that he was attempting to wield his mod authority out of simple outrage that his "side" lost. The topic of possible antagbans appears to be directed not at the Jailbreak situation, but at the cultists who took up arms and started snatching people fresh out of cryo/arrivals before they even have a chance to orient themselves. In essence, spawn camping.

This is a stilted, one-sided caricature of what happened that doesn't accurately represent the behavior or outcomes for both sides in any meaningful way, and demonstrates a wildly unfair bias in favor of the Cultists. (As a point of clarification: I was one of the Security Cultists who aided in the jailbreak and I do agree that permabrigging the Engineers was way too much.) While I believe that running down the sequence of events from my perspective is most likely not productive at this point in the thread, I would be willing to do so if somebody feels it is called for. This, however, is just unproductive aggression that will provoke more bad feelings to no particular end. Please don't do this.

There's the bias. One bad decision does not deserve another. And of course, you don't want to say that sec was anywhere near as bad because you, whether implicit or explicit, condoned whatever actions they took when you told them to go ahead. I'm going to reiterate this again: The fact that the Engineers were cultists was unknown and immaterial except to other cultists. There was no antag hunting, and no knowledge of antags ICly or OOCly that I was aware of. Engineering factionalized due to a minor arrest and brig sentence early in the round, power began failing as a result, and people were arrested for this. The only thing they had to do to not call attention to themselves was get power running to the station again. They chose to let power fail. I, as CSI, was never called in to examine anything (Note: I doubt I'd find anything, given the engineering uniform and equipment, although given Lauren's preference for a black jumpsuit this may not have been the case. She was, at any rate, the one witnessed to remove the power cell from the SMES APCs. The others simply didn't fix the damage she caused.), and the culprits (primarily Lauren Blade in terms of actual action) who were letting power fail were pretty vocal on the radio about it.

I was CSI, so I wasn't actually there to witness it. But supposedly the one doing the trespassing, (Anton?) Bennit immediately ran upon being spotted doing the intrusion. So he kind of put Security on guard, I guess? Even so, I think he only got a three minute sentence for the trespassing. Again, I wasn't actually there in the cells, so this is entirely going off of relevant radio chatter, which may be erroneous or misremembered.