Jamini

We really do not need a civilian, RP-centric job whitelisted. Hell, I'm still of the opinion that command whitelisting isn't necessary or helpful.

I would strongly suggest throughly vetting anything from goon before we implement it. The sheer amount of shit they have (sometimes literally) needs to be very, very carefully evaluated. Goon is notorious for adding the most imbalanced, whacky, and ridiculous things to SS13.

Naaw, it was fully up for a good fourty or more minutes. I just took the screencap at the end of the round when everyone was chilling out.

Good ol' Biodomes.

Loko 13 is actually moderately dangerous to drink. Syndicakes aren't. Ergo the former is probably contraband due to the danger.

At which point, as he continued to refuse to come back to the brig, a complaint to CC should have been filed. Instead what happened is security attempted to detain the captain before they got the okay from CC (which eventually did come in thanks to Galloway, but not before at least two witnessed attempts to arrest Ezra). Security acted in this instance as if they were the ultimate authority on the station, willingly defying orders and acting as mutineers.

A question for you skull. In the event of excessive charges. (Which could potentially be anything above minimum time/fines). Could a captain order a time reduction to the minimum, or order a brig timer down to a fine? I was under the impression that the Head of Security and Warden were the only security members that could brig for more than minimum time regardless. However, should they brig someone for double or triple time could a captain order the time reduced if he isn't satisfied with their reasoning why the timer was increased?

Such as say... nobody providing the charges for a prisoner. Which he attempted to do. Ultimately did. Then an attempt at arrest was made illegally against his person without CC approval. (CC approval was gained after the fact/during the arrest.)

I've outlined why I disagree with your assessment of the situation here: >> http://aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=18&t=2809&start=10#p28011 I can import it into this thread if desired, but I feel like we're already pushing what's reasonable discussion for this complaint thread. Copied because skull gave us time to move things over: Ah, but it wasn't a pardon. You need to stop assuming it is. A pardon implies the regulation break never happened and no charges are applied. Phoebe was simply released two minutes early in the belief that she had not broken a regulation, due to the fact that the Warden, when questioned, did not know why she was brigged. Now: 1. He was releasing a prisoner early. That is indeed something that the HoS, and by extension the captain, is permitted to do. A prisoner he had reason to believe was unlawfully brigged at the time I will add. 2. Regardless of the legality of his actions, you clearly do not arrest the captain unless they are performing a clear violation of regulation. Which this was certainly not. Security had ample time to message CC and explain their case. Which they ultimately did, but not before making multiple attempts to detain. Security and the Captain were both clearly in the wrong. The former of mutiny, and the latter of slightly questionable exceeding official authority. Now, looking at regulations. mutiny is a grand crime, while the charges of exceeding official authority are not. Security is clearly. Very clearly. Much more in the wrong.

Howso? I would argue quite the opposite really. Security were refusing, repeatedly, a valid order to give a prisoner an early release. In part because security had failed to give the reason for the brigging in the first place when asked. (Later the reasoning was given, however it did take quite a while for anyone to say what the charges were. And yes I was on the security channel.) While firing his gun on lethal was wrong, it doesn't change the fact that security grossly overstepped in this case. Frankly, this should be an incident report. Possibly one for both sides.

Loko is only toxic SOME times. In high amounts. It has this nifty little proc that gives it random effects. ..but yes, Loko is generally contraband due to how dangerous it is. It would fall under Non-medical drugs IIRC.

NAME: Mu'in Tak (Played by Jamini) DATE OF BIRTH: Jun 12, 2436 (Approximate, Hire Date) AGE: Unknown, Approximately 21 SPECIES: Tajaran SEX: Male CLEARANCE LEVEL: Assistant (Indenture) EMPLOYED AS: Assistant (Indenture) HEIGHT: 158 cm (5'2") WEIGHT: 47.1 kg (103.84 lb) FUR COLOR: Sandy Brown DISTINGUISHING FEATURES: Three Cybernetic Implants along spine. HAIR: Brown EYES: Brown GENERAL NOTES: PROPERTY OF CYRUS STAFFING LTD. MUST BE SUPERVISED BY SYNTHETIC CONTROLLER "CYRUS" AT ALL TIMES CONTROLLER MAY BE DOWNLOADED VIA EXTRANET ONTO ANY pAI DEVICE, OR INTALLED AS A CENTRAL INGELLIGENCE REMOVAL OF IMPLANTS FOR ANY CAUSE IS TO BE CONSIDERED GRAND THEFT FROM CYRUS LTD. IMPORTANT NOTES: DO NOT CLONE DO NOT BORGIFY EMPLOYMENT RECORDS MEDICAL RECORDS SECURITY RECORDS NAME: Cyrus DATE OF BIRTH: N/A AGE: 3 Years on the line SPECIES: Synthetic SEX: N/A CLEARANCE LEVEL: Artificial Intelligence EMPLOYED AS: Artificial Intelligence GENERAL NOTES: Cyrus Staffing LTD officially requests that all user feedback of Unit CYRUS and it's charge be attached to the following feedback form.

Contraband: 1. Non-medical drugs outside of chemistry without a prescription or executive permission. (Medical personnel are considered to have a permit to carry soporifics.) 2. Lethal weapons without a permit or executive permission. (The following job roles are assumed to have a permit: Captain, HoP, HoS, Warden, Detective) - Note, this does not include security officers. Force Gloves are currently included up here. 3. Non-Lethal weapons without a permit or security permission. (The following job roles are assumed to have a permit for nonlethal weapons: Command (all), Security (all)) Stun gloves are generally included here. 4. Obvious nonstandard tools. Including but not limited to: -Emags -Chameleon jumpsuits -Energy Shields -Nonstandard implants -Illegally modified PDAs -singularity beacons -Power sinks Note: Security generally do not have sufficient training to identify most nonstandard items. At most they see something unusual. You should be checking with research or engineering for most traitor items! Just because in a meta sense you know how something works does not mean you ICly know how they work! Note: Science are permitted by default to have contraband within the labs, so long as it does not leave the lab, for the purpose of study and research.

The Head of Security can already issue warnings and early releases. I already do this myself as an officer because I know people hate brig time, provided they serve some of the sentence without any incident. No. Uh. I' just going to point out that if the HoS can issue early releases and warnings.... the captain technically can too. The HoS is the cap's subbordinate. The HoSdoes not hav legally any mmore power than his boss. This is exactly the samme as if a captain denies a station modification or law upload, or orders one It is the samme if he denies or permits testing over his RD's head, or orders medical treatment for a crewmember or a DNC over his CMO's head. Unless something is criminally unsafe, his orders are the highest athority on the station.

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Security are the only force without any real oversight on the station. They don't answer to IAA, they don't answer to CC, and they don't answer to the Captain. Until security bans start getting handed out like candy for poor sec play, I don't honestly see that changing either. Ooh, ooh, me! I've got it. 1. Respect the law -At all times, attempt to follow regulations as set in corporate regulations. If you see clear violations of such, detain the person doing so regardless of role. If you see a borderline case, report it to your direct superiors and wait for approval. (Direct superiors being the HoS, Cap, and DOs. DO trumps all, Cap orders trump HoS.) -Do not get involved in issues that are not clearly outlined in Corp regs. Paperwork, procedure, and directives fall under command and IAA. Not you. If you feel as if you see a breach of a regulation outside of Corp Regs, report it and wait for the okay from your direct superior. 2. Respect your superiors -Respect all heads of staff and attempt to follow their orders where possible. Stay out of departments you are told to stay out of. Keep an open line of communication with the commander who's department you are operating in if at all possible. -Obey orders from your direct superiors. DO orders override all else, Captain orders override HoS, HoS orders are for security alone. -Obtain permission from either Central, the captain, or the entirety of command, before going after a command staff member. They outrank you, and ICly they have enough political weight to get you fired. 3. Respect other crewmembers -Minimum force when detaining another crewmember. Do not use lethals when tasers or flashbangs will do. Do not use tasers or flashbangs when pepperspray or a flash will do. Do not use a flash when words will do. -Don't stick your dick into the legal workings of another department. If they have paperwork done, you back off and let them work. It's funny. I've played a fair number of security-based characters historically, and I've never ever had someone complain about me. Even though my officer characters are robust as hell. The only complaint I personally had to recent history was being over aggressive as an antagonist which I resolved with the player in question without further incident. Quite frankly, in my opinion, Aurora needs a massive crackdown on security power. When every highpop round has eight security slots filled yet only a bare handful of players in medical, science, or engineering there is a clear indication of an imbalance. But hey, I'm just the anti-sec guy aren't I?

They did contact central, after making numerous attempts to arrest and detain Ezra. That said, he did eventually go to lethals. Which was unwarranted. But I'd hardly call anyone in security blameless. Quite the opposite in fact.

You know. I'm just going to point out that only security can get away with ignoring any order they don't like completely scot-free. Just saying. Nobody else can really do that. Might be worth making note.

Alternatively, make it legal for the cap to pardon or reduce non-HoT crimes. Or both. You know, since technically they should have authority over security. Not the other way around.

Only so long as you can build them without a manipulator and still get a single charge. I wouldn't mind science being able to make "empowered' makeshift gear. Also, stungloves should have a notable sprite difference and name difference on examine. Make them harder to conceal for sure.

Hycinth and I talked it out privately. I'll let her explain here properly. Techno, the LAWP was acquired in response to Kaipov's own. I will point out that even with it I wasn't able to bring Kaipov down. (The other officer who I had dueled with and won I had to finish off with his own rifle). Hell, you all came very close to killing me a few times throughout the round. If I hadn't prepared to be injured and heal myself with stashed medical supplies and a vendor, I would have succumbed to infection long before. What ultimately killed you was the borg player. My intent was never to gank security. As stated, Ahri simply was responding to force used against him with similar force. Everyone that he directly attempted to kill either requested to be killed so they could be made "immortal", or were armed combatants. Jillian/Hycinth was very much a known armed threat, and we both explained ourselves privately postround.

Your bounce radio was on at the time, so they heard just about everything both of us said either way. It was very much a fight-or-flee situation. And once again, multiple members of security were heavily armed and hunting Ahri down. Ergo, rushed. I mean hell, Kaipov arrived shortly after and we had a scuffle which you survived. That only shows to accent how little time I had to act at all.

I do apologize, but Kaipov was running around the hallways with a LAWP. Most of the rest of security was heavily armed and looking to go full lethal as well, which I heard over your bounce radio. Mind, I had also already been shot at by the bartender and a few other people at that point. I also recall saying something over :s about taking you as well. In part I was very much hurried because I knew other people who WERE hostile were nearby. My intent was to quickly shard you, then continue the events elsewhere. I know it did come off as a little over-agressive, but my options at the time were either fight or flee. Staying to talk or delaying wasn't an option. (As it was, Kaipov was close enough to respond to save your life.)

I'd love him to play Tajara just so he can get creepily hit on by a human until he feels uncomfortable. But no, really. Furry plays a pair of very distinct and interesting characters with both solid strengths and flaws. He definitely deserves the chance to be a fucking catbeast.

Honestly, don't like this idea at all. While I do like the idea of a construction device instead of pooping out metal bits with our hands. I can't support something that will utterly kill anyone except engineers from construction or remodeling at all. SS13 has been designed and constructed with the intent to have building be fast and easy. It's a major draw for the game. The only way I can support this is if this device was plentiful, easy to attain, and fits in a backpack. (I'm talking 5+ in tool storage, one for every member of engineering, two in research, two in cargo that can be built in an autolathe, and no more expensive than a stack of metal for cargo) Restricting construction too much to engineering cuts out assistant's ability to assist quite a great deal, and also would drastically reduce the amount of work that engineers have (which is a bad thing, since we already get lots of SSDs in slow rounds!) We need construction to remain fairly easy to perform. ------------------- Another alternative is to look into having tools make parts, instead of making them from the sheet itself. I.E. Wrench > Metal sheet >Menu -Table Parts -Chair -Rack pats Welder > Metal sheet >Menu -Rods -Floor Tiles -ETC

Right, uh... Well. To start, I was the person who put up the initial complaint about Delta in that instance. A few of the reasons I was putting forth the complaint was, as noted by me near the end of the complaint, due to misinterpretation and misunderstanding between myself and the events. While I didn't outright object to the antagonist ban at the time (And I still don't really.) I do kind of feel, at least personally, that he's had enough time out from playing antagonists and head roles. Has he changed? No. Delta is still who he is. Change doesn't happen in a day, a week, or even a month. At his core Delta is who he is, and trying to force change from our position on him would be absurd. Any person who expects radical change from punishment like this at the core of a player is deluded. What I will argue that his time off has given him more perspective, and maybe helped delta realize how his actions as antagonist and command impact others. He has gotten to see the impact that captains and command staff, good and bad, can have on the round, and he has gotten to experience antags very much from a position where he was completely prohibited from joining them. In the time since Vira has been acting as a wonderful and reliable warden. And I personally feel that enough is enough. I say Let Delta have his antag and whitelist back. Please.