Kaed

Man, this thread is only about you implementing dungeons as a concept. You have 0 creative control over what dungeons people make and what they think makes a fun dungeon. This thread keeps derailing as people (including me, let's be fair) tell you what dungeons need to be. If someone wants to make a dungeon that requires cooperation between science and mining, they're going to do it. (or they're going to ask someone else to do it, which has it's own gates for success). This thread has told me people like the idea of dungeons. Go ahead an implement it. If people want to include their own ideas for dungeons, then they are free to do it. The only quality control should be for not including or removing included dungeons that are fairly objectively shitty (i.e. have a just bunch of carp that can wander free and some random loot), aren't fun (i.e. is just a maze with no purpose that has a miner-killing proximity bomb hidden at the end), or somehow ruin the game immersion (i.e. clown temples)

There was a drop pod today that had an SM in it...

There are several items generated in an average round that unnecessarily reference clowns or the clown. These are a relic of bygone days when we had clowns and it was 'funny' to talk about them being on the station and murdering them. I created a PR involving removing them, but it's been largely filled up with le reddit brigade nonsense from people hailing from lowrp servers that certain of OUR players called in to 'support' them. I was asked to make a forum thread. Here's the important info, though. These three items had their text involving clowns changed to 'unauthorized personnel', 'carefully', and deleting the last sentence, respectfully. I'm aware that there is an ancient culture involving clowns and SS13, but we don't use them anymore. There's no redeeming value in keeping silly or nonsensical messages in the game simply for the sake of them being there. They're not funny anymore. They're not in any way necessary. It's time to move on, and within a week of this being implemented, most people won't even remember it was there, because the objects that include these are so rarely viewed that people mostly forget they exist unless they're using them.

Yes.

Night vision doesn't work (For me, at least) and the cold resist is pretty much useless. Claws and speed are the only real mechanical buff, and even then speed is arguable, since they take extra damage, and are especially susceptible to lasers. Night vision DOES work for you, just not in the way that was probably intended. Unlike non-tajara, you can actually see in the dark, in as much as tiles in your light of sight never fail to display their contents, even if they are completely dark. Normally, in complete darkness, you can't right click on floor tiles out of your immediate vicinity, because they won't display their contents. I know it's not as helpful as it probably could be, but used carefully, it can be a powerful asset.

Yeah I'm not sure what kind of ruins or dungeons you think people would be be putting in but I have no intention of them involving any 'lore' beyond perhaps vaguely tying one or two of them to the cult or something because they have a very cool thematic. And ancient crashed ships don't really have some kind of lore purpose either. Nor does it hurt to have the occasional dungeon with some kind of clear backstory. Xenoarch spends most of their time picking aimlessly at rocks, it's not going to ruin them to find like, some kind of ancient skrell structure or whatever.

I would like to point out that there is already a Xenoarcheologist job that is actively searching the asteroid for remnants of civilization. Lorewise, it would not be surprising in the LEAST that there could be a structure within the asteroid. They have found and continue to find countless evidence of it. And grounding these 'Dungeons' into the Lore further actively ruins the theme of xenoarcheology which is where you are meant to link your findings, anomalies, artifacts, rock age, and now ruins. That can't happen if you're too pedantic about it, it will ruin everything. what??? No really, what the hell are you talking about? How is this ruining xenoarchaeology? I've read over this paragraph six or seven times and I have no idea what you're talking about. It seems to me like it would give them more to do.

Since you seem to be having trouble understanding our problems with your idea and think it is some kind of false meme, I have taken one of your 'dungeon designs' and helpfully included some pointers on 'free-roaming monsters that are not inside a structure'. "Walls of stone that look exactly the same as procedural generated stone throughout the area" do not adequately mark the borders between 'a dungeon' and 'the rest of the mines'. In fact, this design in particular fails to actually close off the 'dungeon' entirely, which means that these carp can wander off into open areas that were generated outside the dungeon space and attack miners who didn't even breach a wall.

That answers about 20% of the problems with this concept by grabbing hold of the nanotrasen is evil meme and running it into the ground. Did those people's families evaporate the moment they died on the asteroid? That's some bad PR there, NT loses a bunch of miners and 'doesn't give a shit'. And also doesn't address the other problems, which makes me think you don't really have an answer. Because the entire premise hinges on the idea that people suspend their disbelief for the purpose of just inconsistent adding content for the sake of it. I reiterate, again. Dungeons need to be concrete structures of fixed designs (there can be a lot of them, though) that spawn by chance, and don't rely on RNG just to determine the entirety of their content. 'Some fish and random stuff' is a low effort and low reward concept that does very little to improve the game Nor do they need a bunch of monsters that attack you the moment you discover the locale, or 'warning signs' that inexplicably appear on the other side of solid rock to scare you away. If there's monsters, they should be inside the structure, so you have to actively venture inside to be threatened by them, making it a conscious choice to take a risk, not something you can accidentally trigger because you drilled a rock. All the subtle clues in the world mean very little except giving you a reason to laugh at someone who missed what you were trying to convey, which is just spiteful.

Lets look at it from another angle, then, since you're so adamant about this: Realism vs nonsensical 'game logic' Why are there human remains on the asteroid? If they're from a previous shift, they should have been reported and cleared up. If there are human remains, they are, by default, evidence that other people were there before you and died, and it undermines the whole plausibility of the situation. Why do they lead to a sealed area where there are space carp inside that presumably are the ones that created the corpses? Did the carp wall themselves in afterwards? Why were the carp not exterminated? How are they alive after all this time? Why is there random shit in this cavern with the space carp? Who put it there? Did the carp manifest it magically by shitting it out? If it was the people who left the corpses, why are there no corpses in the room with the carp? By contrast, having ruins and crashed ships and things can fit a lot better into a narrative than a bunch of random shit and monsters just being there for no other reason than 'gives miners something to do once and a while'

Hey everyone this is pretty off topic for the thread and we need to get back to the discussion of the actual suggestion, which is about dungeons. Yes, I am. The human remains will catch the interest of a novice player and lead them towards what seems like something interesting, whereupon they are murdered by carp. StrawMan BurgerBB: But kaed that's their own fault for doing it Strawman Kaed: We don't need game mechanics that punish people for ignorant curiosity.

It's up to players if they want to engage the rest of the station in what they find, but 'I found some random shit and fish in this cavern' is significantly less likely to engage anyone but medical than finding an ancient temple full of shit people can poke at. Then it's not an activity they do on the side like all the other things you mentioned, it's just something that happens to them. Randomly. And if they're unfamiliar with your 'warning signs', they just die. Whee? This is a very inconsistent argument, burger.

Every single one of those things except the last one are stuff you should not actually be doing during a typical shift and I would actively discourage the playerbase from doing, because they're nothing but shitty memes and pointless busywork for no other reason than self gratification. And that last one is just your coloured viewpoint on interdepartmental roles. Adding 'wandering around on the asteroid looking for random loot' to miners behaviour options is not helpful and I don't know why you think it is a necessary addition.

That being said, I kind of agree that the concept you're putting out creates situations where a miner can be blasting through rocks and suddenly find themselves being swarmed by murderfish, which they almost certainly can't escape or fight off effectively unless they've been pimping out their kinetic accelerator a whole lot. Even without the fish, you're just kind of creating this randomly determined spaces (and if you think 25% is a low chance, by the way, I think you have misunderstood how probability works, especially if there is more than 1-2 locations these can show up on in the map) where people can find loot of variable quality in usefulness ranging from 'gee, that's sure weird there is a wrench out here' to 'wow, a gun I can't use because I'm not an antag. Swell!' Being killed suddenly because there were 6 carp on the other side of the wall is only fun in the sense of Dwarf Fortress Fun, and we don't generally tend to encourage Fun in this game. And let's be clear here about something else. This doesn't actually benefit traitor miners in any reliable way. They have much better, more effective, and more fun ways of getting a weapon without wandering the asteroid aimlessly for half the round or more, hoping that a dungeon spawned, that they can find it, that they can survive it, AND that it has something that will be useful to them inside. Because they can just buy a gun from their uplink instead and get started on something immediately, remember? I think the idea of dungeons has merit though, all that being said, but it would need to be a much different implementation than random monster spawn rooms with random items in them. A set of more focused structures (buildings, ships, ruins, etc) with much smaller spawn chances, that has specific items in them that people can be excited to find, instead of large empty rooms to just sigh at and wander off because there's a pair of sunglasses and two wrenches on the floor of this room that had 5 carp in it they barely survived, because, lol, RNG strikes again! Boring: Urist McMiner: "Hey guys, there was a room with a bunch of carp and I almost died... I found a pair of goggles and a spear, though..." Exciting: Urist McMiner: "Woah... I just found like, a temple, and there's like weird floating red crystals and shit in here, get science on the line!" Edit (Arrow768): Removed parts not contributing to the discussion

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4879 Aaaand done.

On it!

I remember someone suggesting this before and it being met with general dislike, and people saying 'this isn't lifeweb'. Personally, I like the idea a lot. But I"m also not sure how mechanically feasible it is in our current code.

Soy lattes, in my space station? Never. -1 million

Sleepy plz You're killing me RN I guess it would make a bit more sense for the different face shapes to be an optional addition to the character if they're male. Otherwise he would be like giving every male character a chiseled Jaw. Unnecessary.

Yeah sorry, I don't really care for it. I don't really have a strong opinion on gender dimorphism, but I think the sprite you came up with looks really freaking ugly. I also don't think it's a good idea to lock certain face or horn designs behind a gender because that restricts player options. This sort of thing should be moderated not mechanically enforced.

Burger I never said you did the medical rework, I said people are still salty about it.

Maybe you should slow down and try and focus on one or two moderate projects at a time instead of trying to rework every section of the map one department at a time. In general restructuring of the map is going to be met with poor reception, because people don't like it when you constantly change where things are. Some people are still angry about the medical remap. Pick a battle that you're likely to get somewhere with, with things you know how to do. Your map efforts have shown some consistent themes such as a lot of strange wide open spaces that generally are met with poor reception and are not aesthetically pleasing to look at. Mapping is about interior design and efficiency, and you can't just sort of slap things around and expect people to be into it.

Nah, I have plans to make it so non cultists can't attack cultists with the dagger, and with the new methods you'll have of stunning a runner, you can easily stop them from walking off with your knife. If they try to be a smart ass, then they'll suffer. I might even have a specific thing you can do to stun people who try to steal your dagger, where they have like a telegraphed message about the ritual knife in their hands humming ominously, and if they don't drop it within like 5 seconds, then it hurts and stuns them.

Yep, I got that. I'm just against it being a rune on the floor you drag someone over and spam click on. Like I said here, how about: All cultists start out with a dagger they can use to injure people with now, so they shouldn't need the rune to exercise punitive measures. They will also be able to perform a sacrifice by themselves, so if the person refuses to join, or ghosts in spite of you, just cut out their heart and use it as dark fuel for later.

If you like, I will recolor the gshep sprite and nothing else.