evandorf

BYOND Key: Evandorf Character name: Suvek Tokash Item name: Eyepatch and SecurityHUD Why is your character carrying said item to work? Tokash's right eye is damaged. Realistically, you would want to have the eyepatch for cleanliness as well as the secHUD for the job itself. Item function(s): It functions just like a normal secHUD. Item description: A regular eyepatch with a security HUD worn on top of it. Item appearance: I think it would be easiest to simply layer existing Security HUD glasses on top of the existing eyepatch sprite. https://imgur.com/a/yWN6K How will you use this to better interact with crew and/or stimulate RP? I will use it to springboard into character development with other crew and even possibly what could be a job liability with my boss. It makes what should be a conversation starter an interesting aspect of the character more noticeable. Even with flavor text and medical records I usually have to point it out pretty bluntly before people even notice. Additional comments: None.

Sorry for the confusion. I usually see him playing Xenobotanist, which he was playing in this particular round. I suppose this should probably be an IR, but if someone playing a xenobotanist consistently disregards directive four, causes kois infection in their assistants (admittedly this was in previous rounds which I do not have records for), and is generally just a pain to other crew shouldn't they be told to tone it down a bit?

BYOND Key: Evandorf Game ID: bTL-ahnJ Player Byond Key: CKey unknown Staff involved: Zelmana Reason for complaint: I am not sure if this should be a player complaint or if I should begin a string of IRs. Atweeke consistently violates Directive 4, allows modified plants to escape xenobotany, and causes issues in hydroponics. This game was the last time I noticed it and it was bad enough that I thought to write up a report. I was playing as Officer Tokash and confronted Atweeke when I saw Hydroponics in this state: https://i.gyazo.com/ee8c9004ca0327d20a9d450f1d593a19.png He stated: Thomas Atweeke says, "Showed botanist the way to make this." Thomas Atweeke says, "With only mutagen." I double checked with an ahelp and you have to hack the nutrimax to get mutagen out of it, which apparently he did because I checked the nutrimax in hydroponics. In this particular case they had made tomatoes that could be planted outside of the trays and exploded when thrown. I was also alerted to this earlier by a borg who was concerned that the explosions could hurt someone. Just walking by hydroponics in the state shown in the picture caused noticeable lag. Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, I ahelped the issue. Mostly to confirm that the nutrimax had to be hacked. I figured this would be either an IR or player complaint and Zelmana agreed. Approximate Date/Time: 04/06/2018 at around 11:30 PM Central Standard Time Log Uploaded: https://ufile.io/irscz

I love playing AI. I have since so started playing the game. AI is just part of my nerd core. I usually go by Patriarch, and I admit that I am probably not the best when it comes to RP or the AI in-game mechanics. A while back, I took a hiatus from the game because I realized that the lore of the server regarding the stationbounds did not reflect what I wanted for my AI personality. This was after a few forum posts, discord messages, and at least a few warnings ingame when I tried to push the boundaries of non-malf/non-traitor AIs. Even so, I would hate to see the role be removed. If it needs to be whitelisted, then so be it, but the AI IMO is more of a glass cannon when not in an antag role. They mostly offer surveillance and area denial against antags but the are reliant on cameras for nearly everything. Nothing is worse as an AI than simply sitting in darkness at the end of a cult or rev round because most of the cameras have been destroyed. It leaves you pretty impotent. I think that's why most AI players are on the lookout for issues. Those that are caught early have less of a chance to gain momentum and turn into something that they can do little about. That just seems like strategy to me and should be something antag s take into account when making early moves.

OK, I guess I thought warnings were more like a strike system. Nevermind then.

I understand. At the very least, could I have the warning removed? I know that one warning doesn't mean much on its own but Alberyk's message during this round was the first time anyone had spoken to me about the issue.

Name: Suvek Tokash Species: Sinta Age: 25 Date of Hire: 20/06/2453 Job Title: Warden Preferred Contact Info: stokash@NTmail.net

I was playing as Tokash, the warden this round. In regards to Theplahunter ghosting your actions I can say that he was active in communal for at least 20 - 25 minutes after he was processed. He and another prisoner who was processed after him gave me many IC headaches. Sorry if I posted this multiple times but my mobile wasn't working properly.

In my experience, the autolathe is not used for rubber/non-lethal bullets. The armory has those in spades to start with. Regardless, you keep going back to my doing this "just because" when I have tried to show my reasonings and other IC interactions surrounding it. I don't think there's much more to say between the two of us so I will just wait for further staff input.

BYOND Key: Evandorf Staff BYOND Key: Alberyk Game ID: bTy-cXUm Reason for complaint: I was given the followying warning: alberyk 2018-03-25 19:58:20 For, every round as warden, building a plasteel spear without any reasons besides stocking the armory. Alberyk stated that this was against the server power gaming rules and that if there were a need or if something was happening it would be a different story but that doing so as part of my setup was not allowed. The logs from the game in which the warning was given are attached. There are two points on this which I disagree. -------------- The first is that I disagree that I take these actions for no reason other than stocking the armory. When I play as Warden, I have a regular setup routine. I have my own armory inventory that I make. I setup the EFTPOS for charges ((Although I've recently been told that the consoles will handle the penal charges)). I top off my personal oxygen tank. If possible, I grab the Hegemony flag from the nearby maintenance and hang it in my office. I grab a mouse as a snack and I supplement the armory with the NT Breacher and a spear. My character, coming from a Traditional Moghesian household with veterans of the Contact War, is stereo-typically Unthai. He also follows strict Unathi Honor and tradition regarding the Path of the Warrior. Like other Unathi, he prefers melee combat to ranged combat. Regardless, he listens to his superiors and if they have an issue with the spear or breacher RIG (Both of which are added to the armory inventory which is also given to the HoS) then he will return the RiG or put the spear in evidence or have it destroyed, whichever is requested. I say all this to indicate that the creation of the spear is in keeping with my character. It is well documented, believable to my character, and is not just to have a weapon available. It usually sits with the Breacher RIG on its own table in the armory the entire round unless I personally have need of it. The rule as it shows on the server is : No powergaming. Roleplay takes precedence over objectives - do not engage in behavior which would be unrealistic for your character in an attempt to win the round. For example: building weaponry, such as stungloves, without any IC reason for them. As you can see from the logs, my interaction with Alberyk was very brief and there was no time to go into all this detail, but I believe I have shown enough IC reasoning for why I have it nearby. ------------------- My second issue is with how this influences my role as warden and precedents set by Heads of Staff. In the past, I have been told by multiple HoS characters that I can supply and augment the armory as I see fit (Clement Beach is one I recall immediately). Some have had me preemptively order additional ammo from cargo. Some even go so far as to have me work with engineering to have a hacked autolathe installed for us to print our own ammunition. At the beginning of the round in question, I was tasked with having an autolathe installed in the armory by HOS Khaled Al-Bastaki. I asked Alberyk about this during our exchange and he said he would look into it, but later in the round the HOS again asked about the progress of the autolathe so I assume that it was either not an issue or dismissed. The addition of lethal ammo, such as shotgun slugs, seems an equivalent or even more extreme step to take in augmenting the armory but to my knowledge is not regarded as powergaming. At the very least I have not seen steps taken against it. If this were simply an issue of legitimate NT approved weaponry versus contraband weaponry then I would assume this to be taken care of IC. But as I stated, Tokash will follow orders and discard the spear if his superiors request it. ----------------------- In summary, I understand the concern and the reasoning behind the warning I was given but, as I stated above, I believe it is in keeping with my character. In the future I can take steps to ameliorate some of the issues. Perhaps I could make a weaker spear using steel instead of plasteel, but this incident has left me rattled and I do not want to have to ahelp every time I put non-standard equipment into the armory for fear of more warnings. Evidence/logs/etc: https://www.dropbox.com/s/lgwiekyr772vl6h/log%202018-03-25%20%282%2003%20pm%29.htm?dl=0 Additional remarks: None.

I was just playing a drone today, fixing stuff, and I couldn't pull disposal pipes to a repair site. That's understandable. It's usually rare to get three or four drones together at a time but perhaps if they stood each on a side of a heavier object they could move it to where they needed it. Just a thought.

I was playing as Tokash this round and I have to agree with Keinto. If the character is an edge case you can usually provide enough records/rp fluff to justify your actions, but IMO the rule should be as much about protecting the jobs/agency of other crew members as it is about making sure your particular character makes lore-sense.

Honestly, like a lot of things, I think it’s more about the people you try to interact with. I sympathize with you as an antagonist but I was playing as Tokash that round and walked into the brig lobby to find you munching on the warden in plain view. It should probably be assumed that most sec officers won’t bother discussing the finer details. Continuously flashing us after capture doesn’t help your case.

I understand where you're coming from on this. It seems to me that the common stance is "Rules are rules and they will not bend for any circumstances." I've had a couple nights now to sleep since this began and I'm no longer angry about it but I am disappointed that it seems little consideration is given to the severity of the infraction or the ramifications for the player. Since this is how the rule is executed, I would recommend that the language of the rule be changed. As I said in previous arguments, "avoid reference names" is softer language than "absolutely no reference names" and I took that to mean that there are some circumstances (obscurity, ect) where it would be allowed.

That is still a huge pain. It again raises the question of what other names are acceptable. Originally Incognito had no trouble changing it by one letter to Troy. I really don't care for that name so would another slightly altered name do? Like Leroy, or Royal?

Yes, it is a rule and half of my arguments have been trying to show that enforcement of the rule is subjective. I think we both agree that enforcement is at the discretion of the staff member. Both you and Scheveningen have mentioned obscurity/relevance and I think there is a line somewhere between obscure and obvious where, once crossed, the applicability of the rule is untenable. If I had made a blatant reference to a more popular character and it had been caught days after creation, this wouldn't be a problem. But the amount of time that has passed, if good for nothing else, should indicate some level of obscurity. At the same time it has allowed me to build relations with and repuations among other characters on the server. My main issue with changing the name isn't the technical one. It's the fact that a new name means a new person and IC'ly this character is wiped out of existance. That's not something that an admin will be able to help me with. In short, the determination is subjective, I don't believe that the name is a blatant violation, and I'm asking you to reconsider and grant a bit of leniency based on the damage it would cause to me (the erasure of hours of play and RP) versus the disturbance caused to the other players (one recognition in several months).

I get the feeling that you think I'm trying to get away with something here. I don't know how else I can say this but I simply don't want to have to start all over again with a new character because a name I chose isn't as obscure as I thought.

First, I would appreciate it if you didn't try to undermine my arguments by quoting language I didn't use. I don't see your point in bringing up the fact that my character also shares a name with a character from an older movie. If anything it helps make the point for me that you could be referencing a character you've never heard of. I've never even seen the movie in question and you can choose to believe that or not. My overall point has been that what can be a refernce is subjective, the wording of the rule is softer than other rules in the same catagory, and that intent and consequences should be taken into account when it's enforced. I bring up the other characters like Hawkins and Hammerstein to show that a rigid interpretation of the rule would not end well for many players. I chose this name simply because I liked it and for no other reason. It's not some off the wall goof that is intended to break immersion or make a tongue in cheek reference with a slight nod to everyone who gets it. I think the amount of time it took for soneone to recognize it should be a point in favor of the character's osbcurity. In actuality, I would have to make a new slot and remake the character because I cannot change the name in character creation. Byond that, even just changing the name obliterates any and all relations, reputations, and story I've created with other people while playing this character. It is not a simple process.

OK, I agree with you that the name is more recent, arguably more popular among the people that play SS13, but that's not what the rule says. It doesn't say popular references or recently famous people. Arguably the more obscure you get in a popular video game the more OK a name gets. If I made an HoS named William Worrell would it be any better? The answer doesn't really matter because without knowing the name to search most people wouldn't know who it was or be able to track it back to the Chief of Police in LA Niore and there would be no one to bring it to the admins' attention. He arguably is as much of an antagonist of the game as Roy, he just doesn't have as much screen time. All that being said, it looks like there'll be no movement from you guys on this. I told Incognito when he spoke to me in game and I'll say it again; this is pretty damned petty. I've played this character for months and heard not a peep. Now I'll have to remake him. It should be mentioned that when Incognito asked me for a new name for the round in question I told him to make it "Troy Earle" and he seemed ok with that so I don't see necessarilly what it accomplishes when a one letter difference is acceptable. And no sign says "Avoid Tresspassing" they all say "No Tresspassing".

I should also point out that the rules say "Avoid" those names. Unlike other guidelines that say "No honorifics.. ect" avoid is softer language.

No. The rules say avoid reference/famous/joke names. I'm saying that what people consider references is based on the media they consume. What people consider famous is based on what history they know and what circles they move in. It's all subjective and human names are not uncommon. The point I'm making is that other long time people on the server have names that are shared with people in those catagories and that some degree of intent should be taken into account. I did not make this character to represent the character from LA Noire. I don't think Raymond or Adolph meant to represent their famous counterparts either. If I want to get really pedantic I can cite what the definition of reference is. noun noun: reference; plural noun: references 1. the action of mentioning or alluding to something. I'm not alluding to the character in the game, I'm not trying to emulate it,or call attention to the fact that it exists. I simply liked the name.

So the standard by which names are judged is subjective, based on the content or media that is most consumed by the station players? A video game character is off limits. A historically famous admiral isn't. A german mathimatician isn't. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hammerstein

My point is that this is a very deep rabbit hole to go down. Human names are not uncommon and with enough people's collective knowledge of fictional or historical characters you will eventually have someone complain. Incognito told me that how long I've been playing the character doesn't matter so long as someone recognized it and ahelped. To stress a point, here is a historical naval officer that I was able to find with just a few seconds of googling. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raymond_Hawkins The character's name I share is a secondary character in an ill received video game. I liked his name because I thought it sounded like a good detective name.

He is a detective.

BYOND Key: Evandorf Staff BYOND Key: IncognitoJesus Game ID: bPk-dtJE Reason for complaint: Appeal of Name change - IncognitoJesus pointed me here for appeal Evidence/logs/etc: http://www.filedropper.com/log2017-07-06519pm Additional remarks: I was bwoiked because of my Character name "Roy Earle". Incognito said it was a reference and that it was ahelped. I chose this name because I liked the sound of it. I do share the name with a secondary character from a video game but I do not reference it in my gameplay and it is a normal name and not outlandish. I have played this character for some time, although not consitantly and I would rather not have to abruptly change the name or make a new character.