Erik Tiber

I think it looks pretty awesome. I need to try this!

I personally would be rather wary of something which could easily be interpreted as tone policing.

If you actually knew me, and the way I speak, you would know that my post was far from hostile. I am not stopping anyone from doing anything, I just fail to see what these "experiments" and "let's look at the community" threads achieve other than whining and self satisfaction when instead the members posting could actually be taking action and making themselves better and setting an example. If you set the example, and become what you want people to aspire to be then people will aspire to be it and standards will change. If you just talk about it, nothing. Will. Happen. I am pretty sure you are being hostile by making rather blatant bad faith assumptions about people and being so quick to jump on an utterly innocuous idea. It is very silly for you to talk about how there is no major problem with hostility when you are yourself jumping down someone's throat over literally nothing.

Jeez Sammac, it just looks like a fun activity to me. Why so hostile? Anyway, I think I'll try this out. It should be fun.

I do think that it's important to remember that really, this is just a game, and we should probably just stop taking it so seriously, or talk about "sacrificing for the good of the community" or whatever, or betrayal of the community, or whatever. It's a hobby. It's just a hobby. It's something we do for fun. This in no way means that we shouldn't try to improve the game or act on complaints, because really, I'd much rather have my hobby be even more fun. It's just that, we probably shouldn't be investing so much into this, emotionally. Let's just remind ourselves that this game is our hobby, not our job, and not some civic duty, and that we can all just be cool and not mind overmuch when someone does something like, say, criticize how the community might be run, or when someone might disagree with you on some aspect of the game. It's just a hobby. Hobbies are nice, and fun, and pretty awesome, let's just not take it so seriously that it stops being fun. And let's not take disagreements so seriously that we can't disagree or debate in peace. I also think it might be a bit important to be open to outside criticism, and emphasizing someone's message far more than their tone. Whether or not they're debating in good faith matters way more than whether or not they use nice words while debating. I'm personally used to forum communities like, say, forums.sufficientvelocity.com, which, while they ban blatant flaming (Though this really has a rather high standard, even flat-out calling someone an asshole isn't enough to qualify), they are far, far more focused on the quality of someone's arguments, whether they provide citations when requested, whether they debate in good faith.

Oh, well if it's from Baystation then that explains everything.

...Well, this makes more sense now. That's a problem with those players. I don't think we should so massively compromise basic common sense for those sorts of people. People have ample opportunity to chucklefuck elsewhere. I would take the negligible increased risk presented by these people disrupting a round over the much larger annoyance caused by adopting a policy that makes no sense, especially when said policy has such extremely wide-reaching implications. Not adopting that policy means that you have less roleplay opportunities as well for players who actually do want to roleplay their character's reactions. If clones being violently insane is a problem, then you could simply make sedatives be standard issue when you tell the patient the news. Or perhaps keep a nearby doctor ready with a loaded syringe gun. If they normally engage in their killing sprees after being released, then honestly, the problem is mostly with these players who somehow believe that being cloned would instantly drive their characters into a murderous rampage. Yes, but they won't do something so obviously horrible, for so little gain, which would attract so much government ire. In fact, since they're assholes, they may just expect these people to get back to work after a therapy session. Which is why clones don't automatically have mandatory leave for the entire rest of the shift.

Lorewise, NT and the Republic of Biesel jointly govern the Tau Ceti System, NanoTrasen having a considerable amount of power, especially over the Free Trade Zone in which the Exodus and Aurora are. It makes no sense for NT to be a government or make laws. They can not override the laws of the Sol Alliance. Furthermore, I see absolutely no reason for the government to cede legislative authority to a corporation, that is basically just completely surrendering your own sovereignty, and I see no reason that NT would go through the effort of legislating and enforcing laws, seeing as that is hardly profitable while also being rather costly. Maybe Biesel contracts a lot of government work out to NT, that's perfectly believable, that's actually very plausible. But it's quite silly to change NT from being a corporation to being a country. It sorta misses the point. Besides, within context, I seriously doubt that the Sol Alliance would tolerate Nanotrasen having a policy of cutting off limbs without consent and falsifying medical records left and right. The government has a vested interest in not having corporations make a mockery of the medical records of their systems. Every single institution that makes use of these records would object. Furthermore, it violates the most basic concepts of human rights to just cut off someone's arms and legs for their own good simply to delay some mental trauma. There are competent psychologists. It is seriously much less expensive to not engage in an extensive, systematic campaign of medical fraud and record falsification. I'm not sure the situation is all that comparable. Jango Fett was a famous bounty hunter with a huge reputation as a badass. This does not apply to every other clone. Regardless, being a clone means that the person will have to face identity issues. They won't just flat out break down permanently, since that isn't really how psychology works. By telling people they are clones, you avoid having to falsify medical records (which should be illegal), cutting off limbs involuntarily (Which is highly unethical and makes no sense, and should be double illegal), and can simply get them some therapy. They should not be driven completely insane and it can lead to roleplay. If you have any evidence that people would be driven completely insane, I'd like to hear it. I however asked a lawyer about the legality of all this, hypotehtically, and basically the current CMD protocols violate the most basic and fundamental aspects of law that it would make just as much sense if NT reintroduced literal human slavery. What's more important, however, is exactly why stuff like CMD protocols are illegal. They violate very basic legal principles, and by having these practices be legal, you've pretty much opened the door for very very nasty things. Basically, a corporation can now sedate you and cut off your limbs at will if they feel the need. This isn't consensual, nor is it necessary. This system is extremely open to abuse, since you're basically setting the precedent that non-government officials can, at will, sedate and mutilate you, then lie to you afterwards. Medical records would not be very useful if healthcare providers have government sanction to routinely falsify them, and a procedure like cloning should come with absolutely massive implications for healthcare. Why wouldn't corporations just routinely harvest people for organs under this paradigm?

I've resolved the case with Rusty, there's no hard feelings between me and him at all. Will reply to Delta later. I don't have a particularly good memory of what you said, so I don't feel confident in arguing this point. And you're right, that was an assholish move of mine. Is that channel still open and is there any particular way for us to get logs? Those would seriously help a lot in putting this to rest.

Why am I supposed to take your apology seriously? Are you sorry I made the thread or sorry for actually doing this? Given the circumstances, I am not at all inclined to believe that this was simply a mistake. Given my repeated posting in the topic, and given me being the very person whom the discussion was about. And you just 'happening' to remember that I still had access to the channel right after I had posted inside it. That's an awfully tough pill to swallow. Do note I'm not the one with logs here, you are, so you have every motivation in the world right now to lie to cover your own ass, since without logs it's just my word against three others. Until, of course, somebody in the chat would come and retrieve logs, but seriously, the very people I'm reporting are the very same people with access to those logs. EDIT: Given recent developments, I'm a bit more inclined to give Rusty the benefit of the doubt. Or even forgive him. However, there is no way I am going to extend anything resembling that to Delta, given him calling me pathetic one second and then asking me for help only a few hours later, completely ignoring what happened, never apologizing despite repeated contact. If for some reason my posts simply did not go through, then he went behind my back and is a two-faced liar. And if my posts did go through, then he has an awful lot of balls spewing that garbage about me, then asking me, utterly nonchalantly, to help him, by elaborating upon the work that I had done. And then, later, asking me if I wanted to rejoin the lore team. Either scenario does not paint a good picture of Delta whatsoever.

I was posting repeatedly in the channel. You asked why I still had access to the channel. This is more than just a bit unobservant, given that I was the very subject of the discussion and was repeatedly trying to reply to the blatant lies which were being spread. And given your particular timing, this seems like one hell of a coincidence. Given the general tone of the discussion, with people calling me pathetic, color me unimpressed. And the anger was over my association with Exogenesis.

I'm not sure why you would be unsure if I was online at the time, given that I was actively posting in the chat. I did clarify immediately after. I was posting my clarification in the chat. Nobody addressed my posts. Nobody responded to me. Nobody even acknowledged that I had typed anything into the chat.

BYOND Key: Erik Tiber Staff BYOND Key: Dea_Tactica, 1138, Rusty Sh4ckleford, Reason for complaint: Hostile work environment Evidence/logs/etc: Currently in the lore chat. As I was removed, I no longer have access to these logs. If anyone with access would like to look through that chat, feel free. Tablespoon can corroborate the manner in which I gave in my resignation. Additional remarks: EDIT: I've resolved things with Rusty via PM, there's no hard feelings between us at all. On January 18 at around 7:00 pm Central Standard Time, I had a rather unpleasant experience in the Lore Team chat. You see, I happened to notice a skype notification in the upper right corner of my screen. I've normally just ignored these, since I am not too good at that whole 'staying in touch' thing, but this time, something caught my attention. They were taking about me in the lore chat, apparently. So I opened the skype call and was greeted by Delta 38 claiming that I had asked Skull to help with exogenesis code, claiming that I had lied on the OOC channel, and then saying that it "was pathetic." I was rather taken aback. I did not know why people were so hostile over this. I looked through the logs, people were talking about how very horrible it was that I had 'hidden' my coding experience, that I had not volunteered it to help Aurora, even though I was not experienced with Byond code, even though I have no obligation to volunteer to code for Aurora (That's why it's called volunteering), and acting if I were somehow double-crossing the server and as if this were some great deception on my part. So I decided to say some thing or other in an attempt to clarify. Nobody acknowledged my message in the chat and they tried to immediately change the subject, not even bothering to address me. I said a few more things, I honestly don't remember what the specific words were. Then, Rusty Shackleford decides to be the first person in the lore chat to acknowledge my existence. He asks "Why does Erik still have access to this channel? Didn't he quit?" He refused to even acknowledge me in the first person. He instead referred to me in the third person, This was especially hurtful because Rusty had never indicated that he had a problem with me. Neither had Dea, who decided to join in on the 'fun' and complain about what a terrible person I was. That was what especially hurt. So I decided to notify them that I would be leaving the lore chat, in an attempt to appease them. I was trembling and quite frankly shocked. So I went to Tablespoon and handed in my resignation as well as a lengthy apology. Below are the logs of my resignation. Tablespoon can corroborate this. Of course, later that very same night, Delta has the balls to ask me to help him with Skrell lore. Which, I oblige. Because I really did not want to have another argument. Because the last time I was completely blindsided and on the verge of tears because people who I thought were my friends, or at least acquaintances, were saying I was pathetic, refusing to even acknowledge my existence, flat out ignoring everything I said and simply taking up another subject, not even showing any reaction at all to what I wrote, refusing to even address me in the first person. Past this point I don't care too much about 'revenge' and I never plan on returning to the lore team. This post is primarily for the purpose of informing others. If anyone would like to own up to what they did, feel free, but I'm not overly inclined to believe them ,given their history of dishonesty. And if they choose not to, then I hope this post will serve as a warning to anyone with the misfortune of working alongside these people in the future. I originally wished to simply be on the lore team for Aurora and Exogenesis. I did not have any intention of somehow betraying Aurora. I did not have any hatred towards these people. I thought that we were at least something close to friends, since I had invested a lot of time into the team. So when someone who I thought liked me treats me like a subhuman, it hurts.

EDIT:Well, as it turns out, Soundscopes did not, in fact, tell the lore team this rumor. So I apologize for the false accusations lobbed in his direction. I've taken this post and am putting it in its own thread.

But the AI isn't the captain. Why is the AI allowed to make that judgement call? Why wouldn't that be up to the captain? If you didn't trust them to make the right decision, then they wouldn't be captain.

NT doesn't really make law. It's a corporation. It has corporate regulations, but they are still subject to laws established by the state. Regardless, why not ask them first? You're essentially putting them through an unnecessary surgical procedure. If someone's in cryo for burns, you don't just keep them unconscious, drag them into surgery, and remove their appendix if their appendix is perfectly fine. You also need someone's consent before you perform a surgery unless their life is in danger. Really, cybernetics adn cloned limbs should all be perfectly affordable, plastic surgery should be so affordable that the only scars your characters would have would be ones they are intent on keeping. But that's a different thing entirely. However! I am in no way objecting to, say, having NT personnel bending the rules for work productivity, or NT cutting corners with something or other.

That seems like a point against them.

Well, I talked to some others about it, and apparently it's not uncommon for admins and staff members in particular to say rather vile things about players behind their backs. I think I'll go and check it out.

I personally don't mind at all, I'm glad you posted it. I mean, so what if it's showing off? It's still a good map, so it's perfectly reasonable to show it off.

Really, it makes perfect sense that the person learns they are a clone. I made an entire thread about that actually. To me, though, it doesn't make much sense why you wouldn't clone a suicide. Put them in a straight jacket if you have to, but well, if you don't clone them, then they're just going to stay dead. If you clone them and they try to commit suicide again, the worst that could happen is that they die again. I'm not personally sure how I should feel about how DNC's should be used. After all, it is effectively a death sentence if you want to prevent someone from getting cloned, period. Inaction is a choice after all, and your inaction prevents their cloning, and thus them being alive again. Which is viewed as very important. I mean, given the circumstances, actively ordering that a body not be cloned is basically ordering them to die, unless you will prep the body for transport and clone them elsewhere, but even then it would, logically, be better for the clone if you conducted that operation earlier and just locked them up in a straightjacket until transfer. Obvioiusly that's rather unpleasant, but given that the alternative is death, the bar is set rather low. If I'm missing something here, please point it out.

...I haven't gone on teamspeak yet, but ah, is it seriously normal for people to make comments like that about people? Because to me, that just sounds rather, well, rude. And petty.

Just chiming in here, I'm seconding what Josh said. I might actually weigh in later.

You know, I would really like it if a map like this took place in futuristic Antarctica, on Earth. Put it a few hundred years in the future. Climate change means that huge portions of the Antarctic icesheet are melted and much of the Antarctic coast now has conditions comparable to current-day Alaska, leading to colonization. You could be part of some operation or other to extract resources down in Antarctica.

I would much ratehr have ape uplifts. The tajarans and Unathi are already too human-like. We should not add any additional alien races unless the race is actually alien. And if the race can be described as "ape-men" then it is not alien enough. I mean something like hydrocarbon bones, hydraulic muscles, an alien brain structure, something which would actually provide people with new opportunities. If someone wants to play something identical to a human which just speaks funny, we already have unathi and Tajarans for that.

Ditto what Skull said.