MoondancerPony Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 In the current PR, the noir clothing is being replaced not with a normal jacket, but with an item that is admitted to be a reference to Detroit: Become Human. No matter what way you slice it, this is much worse than the noir clothes. Additionally, it keeps the other parts of the noir aesthetic (like wooden floors and tables) while removing the good parts (the unique camera console and wardrobe, as well as the items). I think a reference to another video game as the default is much worse than 'forcing' noir clothes on people. I think a decent compromise would be giving the player options, but on the other hand, is adding a reference item as a supposedly better 'replacement' really necessary at all? Proof it's a reference item: https://i.imgur.com/QD8CLoT.png And in general, I don't think outright removing the noir clothes as an option is a good idea, either. I would say do nothing or add more options. EDIT: Keep in mind that the current loadout trenchcoat is a non-armored (but better looking) variety that isn't role-restricted.
IAmCrystalClear Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 In the current PR, the noir clothing is being replaced not with a normal jacket, but with an item that is admitted to be a reference to Detroit: Become Human. No matter what way you slice it, this is much worse than the noir clothes. Additionally, it keeps the other parts of the noir aesthetic (like wooden floors and tables) while removing the good parts (the unique camera console and wardrobe, as well as the items). I think a reference to another video game as the default is much worse than 'forcing' noir clothes on people. I think a decent compromise would be giving the player options, but on the other hand, is adding a reference item as a supposedly better 'replacement' really necessary at all? Proof it's a reference item: https://i.imgur.com/QD8CLoT.png And in general, I don't think outright removing the noir clothes as an option is a good idea, either. I would say do nothing or add more options. EDIT: Keep in mind that the current loadout trenchcoat is a non-armored (but better looking) variety that isn't role-restricted. "Hey, let's get rid of this gimmick and replace it this, newer gimmick!" From what I can tell, we're being taken from being forced into one thing to being forced into another.
Bath Salts Addict Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 Okay, two things. One, that is literally the worst sprite I've ever seen. Ew. Second, people actually like the noir aesthetic and it's not out of place in the setting at all considering the fact that said setting is an amalgamation of influences and inspirations the lore team find interesting and incorporate into the game. Tajaran society is basically a mix between a 1984 Orwellian-style dystopia and the old Soviet Union. Luna looks like it's stuck in the 20's or 30's with it's retro-futuristic aesthetic. One character of all the characters on the station wearing a shirt, tie, coat and a fedora in an out-of-the-way office is hardly immersion breaking. I say leave the noir as default, but give the detective more alternate outfits to appease the sticks in the mud. On another note, why? You don't even play detective, and sure you main a role that interacts with them heavily, but why does it matter so much to you that you want it removed when other people are clearly enjoying it? This may be a bit personal, but I'm absolutely astounded by this level of selfishness. Just live and let live. Don't keep the detective on your screen if it's honestly THAT much of an issue for you, or stop playing forensic tech. I'd prefer being a noir meme than being forced into some stupid Detroit: Become Human reference or get turned into a cheap knockoff of a CSI: Miami character.
MoondancerPony Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 It's already been merged, but I assume the dev team is still open to tweaks. Yes, the devs have a policy against removing existing references. That doesn't mean we should actively add more, especially when almost no one was asking for them. The sprite doesn't even look that good or unique, and it's not "forcing" an aesthetic on anyone any less than the noir outfits were. Retrofuturism is a thing, and an important part of the setting. Things like replacing the tape recorder with the new universal recorder sprite, this, etc., are just... I don't know, removing fun and going against the style and direction of the server and setting?
Skull132 Posted June 17, 2018 Posted June 17, 2018 Righty, let's post here as well. First, re: retrofuturism. I do not know where this term came from, but this is pretty much the first time I've heard of it. The "retrofuture" aesthetic is an old Goon one, something which was never fully rooted out. Further, as you yourself pointed out, it's something we've deliberately gone against for the longest time. Recorders, PDAs, IDs, computers. Probably even more stuff that I can't think of at the moment. Point being, we've been running away from that aesthetic for years now. So I fail to see how this is going against the style and direction of the server, considering both have been moving away from the retro aspect for literally years now. Second, I would debate that the noir is not entirely affected by the changes. You lose the 1980s aesthetic, but nothing's stopping you from playing your character off as noir. I don't think we'll ever see the end of the hard boiled detective that smokes 5 cigarettes every 5 minutes. And that's not necessarily a bad thing. Noir in le future can be done, and I would much rather have future noir than 1980s noir. As I mentioned in the PR, the exact way we go about achieving this is probably up for change a bit next cycle as well, but that's the general intent.
StationCrab Posted June 19, 2018 Posted June 19, 2018 Okay so I thought I'd reply here, I don't participate much on the forums, and generally go with the flow and don't get riled by changes, but this really bugged me a bit. I understand that the Noir thing might be played out, but I genuinely enjoy it when I play detective. So this change in it's current form is a -1 one from me. I'm not a fan of the new coat replacement, but at least the majority of the clothes that the detective used to have can be gotten through the loadout system. Skull brings up good points about how it doesn't kill your ability to RP as a Noir inspired detective, and he has also expressed his desire to move away from the old style. Maybe there is some form of middle ground that could be found? I'm no artist, but I really enjoyed this art piece and thought maybe some sort of similar more futuristic trenchcoat could be created by someone more talented? Not to knock whoever made the new jacket, but it looks like a bath robe, although I can see they were going for the detective aesthetic from Detroit Become Human, for better or worse. This is what I envision for my character personally, maybe a talented spritesmith could create a more futuristic looking attire for the detective, while still allowing for a bit of the noir influences? I'd also like to come to the defense of other Noir players out there, not all of us go crazy and shoot the place up. I personally try to emulate the attitudes and mannerisms of the noir period, without going off like a loose cannon. Mainly because it is against the server rules, and the wiki itself encourages the detective to skirt the edges of conflict and solve the case. If people are concerned that noir aesthetic drives players towards murdering everything on their own, then you should deal with those players on an individual basis, not punish those of us who don't use the detective as a front line defense fighter. In closing, I just don't like the way it was just completely removed, especially considering that this seems to have a bit of push back behind it. If everyone reaches the consensus that Noir is overplayed and not welcome on the server, obviously folks should respect that, but I don't see the harm in putting options in the Detective wardrobe. Also I must admit I miss the awesome Detective's Flask sprite, which is not available from the loadout screen, but that's a minor gripe. As long as the cosmetic options remain in the loadout system, I can be cool with it. Sorry if this is scatter brained, I'm a bit tired.
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