Kitchen/Bar Overhaul: The return.

[BurgerBB]

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Kitchen and Bar overhaul. It was one of my first PRs but was shelved because of how long it took. It's currently still a WIP because the piping needs to be fixed up, as I literally copy and pasted the section back into an updated map. Piping is incomplete, and there are some doors that are missing.

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Goals:

- Make a kitchen big enough for 2 chefs.

- Connect the bar and the kitchen together for an actual classy service, if still desired.

- Retain the food counter for those still into fast food.

- Add an entertainment area suitable for events.

[Asheram]

I'll be upfront with you and say that I don't like it.

In any order.

1. It's too easy for chefs to miss people at the counters, and it'd be an impossibility for them to serve anything directly at the bar counter.

2. The barkeep area is far too small. Both their bar and personal space

3. There's no discrete way for the barkeep to slip into maintenance, making things a lot harder for traitor barkeeps.

4. As the chefs are forced to shift items one by one unless they've got a plant bag, the smartfridge by the ovens is useless.

5. The tables are too small for proper use, the kitchens need more table space, not less.

6. The Gibber is notoriously ornery about the direction you put things into it. I actually don't think you can load it from the "front"

7. You are missing the kitchen clothes locker which used to be in the fridge.

8, The ATM just by the kitchen was just where it needed for those who wanted to pay with cash.

9. The kitchen request console should be placed more centrally in order to get a better view of it.

10. I'm 90% sure that both the candy and cereal maker should be placed on the ground, not tables.

11. The takeout area is way, way, way too small. Unless someone finishes the PR for the "Smartheater" and you put it there, it's near unworkable.

12. There's also no disposals by the takeout area.

Don't get me wrong, any attempt to rework the kitchen should be lauded, but what we have here are a bunch of steps in the wrong direction which looks good but won't work for those who will actually work there.

Edit: Missed the ringer for #1. My bad.

Edited May 18, 2018 by Guest

[Bauser]

Conversely, I am a big fan of this redesign, though it's not without its own weaknesses.

To start with things I really like:

1) Giving the chefs two tiles of walking space around each table would be a godsend for anyone who has actually spent time trying to maneuver around the current kitchen with more than one person in it. God help you if you're dragging a crate (like a freezer box) or locker (like a refrigerator) as well - and get ready to play Pacman if someone asks you to run the janicart through it like I am occasionally. Simply put, we have a strong enough presence of chef players that I am regularly annoyed by the unnecessarily restricted space. Two tiles' width keeps things accessible without losing the cozy, efficient feeling. This makes it mechanically like a lab (chemistry, telescience, virology...) - and that's what it should be.

2) The window between the kitchen and bar serves the double purpose of working as a serving window, allowing the bartender to be involved with the people who are there to eat, and allowing the chef to be right up close to the people at the bar, allowing him to be involved in the bartender's conversations and RP. Our current bar is large enough that if you're sitting at the bar, you probably can't see the chefs, and if you're sitting at the chefs' counter, you probably can't see the bartender. In contrast, this design concentrates people geographically by putting the two functions of the bar (food + drink) in the same spot, without interfering in the ability of either. And bringing people closer together will make it feel more public and let more people engage in whatever roleplay takes place.

3) Having 3x 4-person tables instead of our current 2x 6-person tables is more useful, because the most common use of those tables is for small gatherings anyway - you don't ever really see more than 4 people sitting at one unless someone's organized an actual event... So the extra table just means there's potential for an extra group.

4) The addition of a proper stage makes the whole place very classy and suitable for an entertainer, and we do have a couple players who occupy this role occasionally. Now Wynter won't have to make me drag the piano out of maintenance every time he wants to play for people.

5) In general, I think this horizontal orientation of the bar (wider than it is tall) is much more aesthetically appealing than our current one (taller than it is wide). Perhaps this is because it is attached to a vertical hallway, so the contrast here is satisfying.

To address or build from some of Asheram's concerns:

6) The bartender's personal area does seem a bit too small. A possible remedy for this would be to get rid of the upper set of doors that enter into the bar and then use the extra space to stretch the bartender's room down to the remaining set of doors. To prevent this from causing congestion by pushing against one of the tables, the leftmost table could be scooted down a bit (in line with a suggestion I make in point #10, below).

7) The chef won't miss people at the counters because there is a ringer at the primary hall counter. This is suitable for people who want to take their food to go. Currently, people who want to eat from the kitchen have to choose between the hallway counter and the bar counter, and this pointlessly segregates people. De-emphasizing the hallway counter means the people who want to stick around and chat are better incentivized to go into the bar and hang out with everyone else. As said before, it brings people together.

8) I THINK this design only has two fewer tables than the current kitchen, they're just spread apart more. To bring it completely in line with the current kitchen in terms of table-space, it would be easy to simply add another 1x2 table flushed to the right-side wall of this design (in front of the intercom)

To add some of my own concerns:

9) There is no door into the theater area. I assume this is an accidental omission, because this design makes it impossible to get in without cutting down a wall.

10) Having the three main tables lined up feels pretty cold, sterile, or stagnant to me... Maybe it would look nicer if their alignment was staggered (one tile up, one tile down, one staying in the middle)?

11) If someone is playing on either of the arcade machines, they are blocking both the stairs to the stage and the exit to the maintenance tunnels. I recommend getting rid of one arcade machine so whoever's playing can always slide themselves into its little alcove, out of the way.

12) There should be a bar sign displayed in the primary hallway, right at the entrance like our current bar, though I do also like the one actually in the bar here.

[MO_oNyMan]

Finally, some entertainment area improvements. Seems fine and dandy. Although i have some concerns

1) I'd place the coffee machine in the bartender's area. We have a barrista title now, dirty assistants shouldn't be around cool coffee machines

2) I'd replace one of the cigarette machines with a snack machine

3) arcade machine by the door is awkwardly placed because whoever is using it blocks both the theatre and the stage

4) bar sign with the name of the bar should probably be on the outside (?), i'm not sure

5) Are those stairs in the bartender's backroom? Are we getting a wine cellar?

[Doxxmedearly]

HELL YES ENTERTAINMENT STAGE!

 

Now Wynter won't have to make me drag the piano out of maintenance every time he wants to play for people.

You just wait until I make some compositions for two pianos.

= = =

This IS good though. I'm tired of having to beg for someone to fetch a piano and then shove it awkwardly in the bar. An actual stage is great. I could finally make my musician character. The table in the lower left is perfect for card games, too. I love a lot of the bar redesign, but don't play enough chef or bartender to know what works best.

As for the rest... I think I echo all of the following concerns:

Bauser

9) There is no door into the theater area.

10) Having the three main tables lined up feels pretty cold, sterile, or stagnant to me...

11) If someone is playing on either of the arcade machines, they are blocking both the stairs to the stage and the exit to the maintenance tunnels.

Asheram

3. There's no discrete way for the barkeep to slip into maintenance, making things a lot harder for traitor barkeeps.

4. As the chefs are forced to shift items one by one unless they've got a plant bag, the smartfridge by the ovens is useless.

5. The tables are too small for proper use, the kitchens need more table space, not less.

8, The ATM just by the kitchen was just where it needed for those who wanted to pay with cash.

(As for Asheram's point 4, I don't see a problem with letting the chefs start with a plant bag.)

Small nitpick, but the comfy chairs would be a better fit for those booths at the bottom than the wooden ones.

I'm a little sad about the disappearance of a dance floor, as some really good RP moments were had there. It IS very underutilized though, so I understand its removal. One could just as easily dance in front of the stage.

Overall, I'm really digging this, though I think feedback from chefs and bartenders is critical.

[Asheram]

8) I THINK this design only has two fewer tables than the current kitchen, they're just spread apart more. To bring it completely in line with the current kitchen in terms of table-space, it would be easy to simply add another 1x2 table flushed to the right-side wall of this design (in front of the intercom)

Naw. There's a 2x(2x3) set of tables in the kitchen as it is. I was friggin' ecstatic over this setup at first because if you put the blender and the soda/condiment dispenser (which seems to be missing as well) over by the two tables to the left where the cleaver is, extend the tables two steps upwards, and then add an entire row of tables to the southern wall then this would've been absolutely brilliant.

Then I noticed that it's where the counter to the bar is and that dream was shot into flames. (Unless you take away a table to get up to that counter properly)

You really don't need a two square wide area to pass each other. Workingspace on the tables should be prioritized.

And I will admit I missed the ringer. Good eyes.

[Saudus]

Not at all a kitchen or bar player, but the general layout looks great and much better than current. Seems there are a bunch of quality of life tweaks to be made, but the general concept seems great.

I am surprised by how fun I think the stage is, I mean technically we have one at the holodeck, but that isn't the same. That is more for purposely made gatherings, this seems like it could create impromptu ones.

[incognitojesus]

I would make the stage a little smaller. Also, in my opinion, one or two of those wider tables should be replaced with smaller ones, and the booths should be a little bigger.

[Bauser]

Naw. There's a 2x(2x3) set of tables in the kitchen as it is...

A way to bring this design up to the current standard in terms of table space would be to connect the two tables with another big 2x2 slab of workspace in the middle - resulting in a huge 1x(6x2) counter space. This leaves 2 tiles of walking space around the whole thing, and it would look really cool. And we can just nudge the holopad somewhere else.

 

You really don't need a two square wide area to pass each other. Workingspace on the tables should be prioritized.

It's not my goal to nitpick, but if either of you isn't on help intent, or you're pulling something, you literally do need a two square wide area to pass each other. Because you have to maneuver around. I'm really tired of playing Pacman.

[Asheram]

You really don't need a two square wide area to pass each other. Workingspace on the tables should be prioritized.

It's not my goal to nitpick, but if either of you isn't on help intent, or you're pulling something, you literally do need a two square wide area to pass each other. Because you have to maneuver around. I'm really tired of playing Pacman.

True, but the only thing you'll be dragging something in the kitchen is when you're either hauling a body, or a crate.

Neither of such are very common.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

It is very common to pull things around in the kitchen.

[Scheveningen]

I like the premise of this overhaul, attempting to centralize both the kitchen and the bar together. It's just unfortunate that what had to be sacrificed is the initial table space towards the main hallway, and what used to be the original 'buffet counter' as I like to currently call it for lack of a better term. The self-sufficiency of the chef to be able to toss food either towards the hallway or the main dining area of the bar for pickup was definitely valuable. I'm hoping more people play bartender so that this isn't too much of an issue. My concerns can easily be handwaved by an engineer disassembling one of the tables between the kitchen and the bar.

This does quite literally look like the bar & grill I used to manage, which is both cool and also mildly suspicious...

:thinking:

Put a cargo tagger and a hand labeller in the kitchen so they can wrap meals up and send them to certain departments to compensate.

[Asheram]

It is very common to pull things around in the kitchen.

Like what, if I may ask?

[Bauser]

True, but the only thing you'll be dragging something in the kitchen is when you're either hauling a body, or a crate.

Neither of such are very common.

Pulling refrigerators and freezer boxes around in the kitchen is very common.

And, in my case, the janicart example is, too.

[Bauser]

My fix to the problem of the chef not being able to serve food directly is this:

 

Let the chef walk behind the bar to deliver stuff in case the bartender isn't there or won't do it. Obviously, don't give the chef access to the bartender's personal area. I don't anticipate any logical reason for bartenders to be so territorial about their counterspace that they would disallow a chef from stepping in to drop off some food, anyway.

[Asheram]

True, but the only thing you'll be dragging something in the kitchen is when you're either hauling a body, or a crate.

Neither of such are very common.

Pulling refrigerators and freezer boxes around in the kitchen is very common.

And, in my case, the janicart example is, too.

And the collective time of such is about...one minute a round? It's not like the medbay where you are expected to haul around folding beds all the time.

[Asheram]

Alright, I'll put it like this.

Meat, cutlets, bacon, sausage, meatballs, meat protein, eggs, milk, spaghetti, dough, dough slices, tortillas, flour, Sliced and unsliced bread, Sliced and unsliced Cake, Universal Enzyme, Salt, Pepper, Space Spices, Sugar. (And then not counting all the actually cooked meat)

That's 20 of the most common ingredients and intermediate ingredients you'll find in an active kitchen on the station.

These Can Not be placed in a smartfridge.

As a solo chef (Daniel Brooks) I take up 7 spaces alone just sorting all of that so I don't have to stuff it all in a pile in the refrigerator or the kitchen cabinet.

Intending to have two chefs work on 3 tablespaces apiece (just 3 since the grinder is blocking the fourth) Isn't workable. It just isn't. No go.

Edit;

The possible argument against this is "Sure, throw it in a pile anyhow." The keyword here is throw, because you won't be able to see the table beneath it. And this brings up the issue of having to sort through all of this, and it will take a 10 seconds or so just to load all the items, possible even more to sort through it.

But why would you want all of this prepared to be used? Because with the little counter space at the takeout, there's nowhere to put food, so you'll have to prepare it to order. And that is hell on its own.

Edit2: And if you suggest just putting things on the floor then I'll remind you that this is a HRP server and we don't want to serve our lunches along with a shot of spaceacillin.

I believe the appropriate likness is imagining having to play the chemist with the "Chemical Dispenser" just being large jugs of chemicals you have to handle manually, and no "Refrigerated Medicine Storage"

[Bauser]

I bastardized your map in PDN to give a quick and dirty example of some possible alterations

In the process, of course, I fucked up all the utilities, so just forget all the pipes and wires ._."

 

EDIT: I don't know what bartenders like, so I left the extra space in the bartender's personal area empty. Imagine whatever you want!

[Asheram]

I bastardized your map in PDN to give a quick and dirty example of some possible alterations

In the process, of course, I fucked up all the utilities, so just forget all the pipes and wires ._."

 

That is better. Didn't consider merging the two tables like that. (and now I feel like an idiot for that rant earlier)

Would you mind flipping the gibber around and place it where the corn oil was? The kitchen is still a bit too cramped for my taste, but that'd make it 100% certain that the gibber could be used.

[Bauser]

I am confused by how you interpret THIS kitchen as "cramped," but not our current one. Anyway, here's a version of that same image with the corn oil and gibber in swapped places: https://i.imgur.com/vsrSdBn.png

EDIT: another benefit of this kitchen is that it stops people who hop the hallway counter from immediately having access to everything in the kitchen. Now there's a door in the way.

[Asheram]

I am confused by how you interpret THIS kitchen as "cramped," but not our current one. Anyway, here's a version of that same image with the corn oil and gibber in swapped places: https://i.imgur.com/vsrSdBn.png

EDIT: another benefit of this kitchen is that it stops people who hop the hallway counter from immediately having access to everything in the kitchen. Now there's a door in the way.

 

It's the use of space in the original one. Technically it's smaller, but the larger tables and the availability of the counter inside the bar made up for it.

With your additions I believe I am indeed falling for this one though.

Now, the reason I asked for you to flip the gibber around was because I've had issues with putting things in the gibber from the front and diagonally. I'm frankly not sure from the top though so now when I consider it, if you can easily put things in from the top then the ideal place might actually be by the door, aimed in the same direction it was before, effectively swapping the original location of it and the meat spike (Sorry for this)

[Bauser]

Okay, how about this for the freezer? I've rearranged everything so you get full access around the gibber... https://i.imgur.com/nDW4DSh.png

And most importantly...

by putting it right above the scrubber,

WE CAN FINALLY EXPLAIN IN-CHARACTER WHY OUR SCRUBBER SYSTEM IS FULL OF BLOOD AND GORE

Edited May 19, 2018 by Guest

[Asheram]

WE CAN FINALLY EXPLAIN IN-CHARACTER WHY OUR SCRUBBER SYSTEM IS FULL OF BLOOD AND GORE

IT'S THE BEST POSSIBLE THING!

Seriously, I love it. Also makes it a bit fun that we now have all the meat shooting directly into the freezer freezing cabinet.

Edited May 19, 2018 by Guest

[Bauser]

There should definitely be a sink somewhere in the kitchen though... There's one in the freezer, but there should be one in the kitchen proper. So I hope that gets thrown in, too.

[Asheram]

Ah! one nitpick. Would you mind switching the places of the meathook and some other item? If you have it there, if we should happen to move the freezing cabinet then there's no way of putting it back without having to climb inside it.

If you place the icecream machine over the vent and then the meathook in the lower left corner then it'd be ideal.