BurgerBB Posted July 25, 2018 Posted July 25, 2018 BYOND Key: BurgerBB Game ID: None. Player Byond Key: Scheveningen Staff involved: Various; Aboshehab, Doc, Garnacus, Juani Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Aboshehab was on break and recommended that I speak to Doc, Doc posted about it in the mod chat about Shev's behavior and there was no response for a while, so Abo recommended I speak to Garn. Garn hasn't responded to a DM that I sent 5 days ago. Upon bothering Doc again, The general consensus was that I should make a player complaint. Generally the feeling I got was that no one wants to deal with this issue privately. Approximate Date/Time: Various Reason for complaint: There will be two threads I will be referencing: My developer application: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=11223 The original complaint thread: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=11222 As a potential staff member, I wanted to avoid starting unintentional drama over this issue so is Shev would start anything, I would just ignore it and hope that it would go away as people have been telling me. Now, the beauty of it is that ignoring problems does not actually make the problem go away in this scenario, so here I am, making a second player complaint. Now that I gave up on dev, I tried speaking to staff members privately about Shev's behavior as I didn't want to start another shitfest, but unfortunately it seems that no one is willing to deal with that issue, which is the impression I am getting, however I hope that just be me being negative. I wanted to solve this issue privately without a public spectacle but unfortunately I cannot do that so I guess I'll just have to deal with it and just post everything I was going to say anyways. It would be nice if all these screenshots were addressed by a mod, but there is going to be a lot of them. So over the year I've been here, I've learned quite a bit about Shev, entirely unintentionally. Shev started to take an issue with me when I was belittling players, acting as some sort of self-proclaimed guardian for them. That was the excuse he used when justifying throwing more fuel into the fire in the first complaint thread: ( https://i.imgur.com/Ajd9Ubu.png ) I don't think that this was ever addressed, but it's kind of fucked up for a player to do this in a situation when they're not a mod, but then again even if they were a mod this would be some pretty abhorrent behavior. It got quite worse over time for various reasons. One of which is me posting about them in a place used for venting, and then those logs getting leaked to them by a friend. I don't even need to post the screenshot given how everyone probably knows it like the back of the hand. It's the one where I compared him to a child with downs syndrome disrupting everything and the best thing you can do is ignore it and let it pass. It likes to be posted a lot despite being addressed multiple times and me apologizing multiple times for it, genuinely. It's posted every time I try to correct things and make things right, usually paired with "This is why I can't be civil with you." despite the incident happening months ago and apologies being made and addressed via discord PMs. Proof of this can be seen the developer thread and the original complaint thread. I think that this is important to bring up because they ended up joining the place itself. and using it as their own personal dumping grounds to post exclusively about why i'm satan incarnate. ( https://i.imgur.com/Mv2wnaH.png ), thankfully everyone knew what he was trying to pull so one one took it seriously. I would get more examples, but they ended up leaving the chat itself unexpectedly as soon as I resigned as trial developer, which I thinks speaks volume about his intentions there. I cannot directly search for more examples of him posting there because of how discord handles searches. It's a huge shame because he said quite a lot of things about how developers are not better than players in terms of contribution and general developer dislike which may shed light on how he views things. Recently, I fucked up and used humor that people did not find acceptable, and I resigned as developer because at the current Aurorastation climate, I could not handle being developer. Part of the reason why I resigned because I thought that Shev would actually cool down, maybe perhaps give him a burst of happiness, but for some reason it made things worse and he started to berate me on discord publicly, as seen below. I'm embedding this one because I think everyone needs to see it because I think it perfectly embodies Shev as a person. They see someone who accidentally offended someone. They then publicly berate them, usually saying quite rude or demeaning things. They then somehow try not to make it entirely serious by throwing in a joke in there. They then go serious again and continue the beration. While this is unique in it's anger and general hatred, they like executing this concept. They like pinging people publicly on discord for issues that happened either a while ago or off discord, they did this before, as seen in this post: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?p=97709#p97709 I ended up speaking to staff members about this because this was unacceptable. He was given a measly little discord warning by Juani that probably expired by now, and I do not think his behavior will ever stop because of it. This is proven by the fact that someone who knew more about Shev came up to me and told him about the fact that Shev used to be a moderator for this server, and that he ended up losing moderator twice due to "behavioral issues". I genuinely and unironically believe that this is starting to border on harassment. For one user to spend so much time complaining, flaming, and baiting someone, it's unhealthy to everyone involved.
Chada1 Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 Do I count as involved? I think I might, but if I don't, just delete this post. I've seen a lot of this drama as of now (And was even part of it for a little while during Burgers' trial app) so I am pretty sure I am involved. I'll start with, I take a lot of issue with your behavior, Burger. You consistently go off server to talk behind peoples back and it's effectively the same as defaming people. You should not be surprised in any way shape or form that people are offended by your actions. If Schev joined a server to talk crap about you when you weren't there, you'd probably react very poorly as well, because it's rude, you are talking behind peoples back and slandering them. It was worse when you were doing it as a part of the Staff, but now that you aren't it's still bad. That said, you have apologized and though Schev didn't accept your apology, I did, but you've still been doing it, but I've gone on for too long, this complaint isn't about you. Scheveningen has been known to go off and get really bitter about people and go off on them, though I harbor no ill feelings towards them (Or you), they should have known that there was no way this would end well for them, there is absolutely nothing that would justify what they've said and done, they effectively tracked you down and harassed you non-stop, that's nothing short of bullying and ridiculously inappropriate and unnecessary. I'll be disappointed if they aren't punished from this complaint, but it could be dismissed due to occuring off server. If it is dismissed I suggest you block Schev and push them out of your mind.
BurgerBB Posted July 26, 2018 Author Posted July 26, 2018 Do I count as involved? I think I might, but if I don't, just delete this post. I've seen a lot of this drama as of now (And was even part of it for a little while during Burgers' trial app) so I am pretty sure I am involved. I'll start with, I take a lot of issue with your behavior, Burger. You consistently go off server to talk behind peoples back and it's effectively the same as defaming people. You should not be surprised in any way shape or form that people are offended by your actions. If Schev joined a server to talk crap about you when you weren't there, you'd probably react very poorly as well, because it's rude, you are talking behind peoples back and slandering them. It was worse when you were doing it as a part of the Staff, but now that you aren't it's still bad. That said, you have apologized and though Schev didn't accept your apology, I did, but you've still been doing it, but I've gone on for too long, this complaint isn't about you. Scheveningen has been known to go off and get really bitter about people and go off on them, though I harbor no ill feelings towards them (Or you), they should have known that there was no way this would end well for them, there is absolutely nothing that would justify what they've said and done, they effectively tracked you down and harassed you non-stop, that's nothing short of bullying and ridiculously inappropriate and unnecessary. I'll be disappointed if they aren't punished from this complaint, but it could be dismissed due to occuring off server. If it is dismissed I suggest you block Schev and push them out of your mind. I have a different view of talking behind people's back than most. I'm aware of a few staff members who talk behind my back on a once-a-month basis. I don't make staff complaints on those people because it was meant to be private and for me not to see. While I do view these staff member differently because of such LIES AND SLANDER, I do not hold it against them administration wise. I'm not complaining about them complaining behind my back, I'm complaining about the hypocrisy that occurs where they complain about complaints made in a semi-private environment and then complain in a semi-private environment.
Garnascus Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 Alright this song and dance has gone on far too long. Determining who is less shit here is really not something i am interested in. You're both giant turds to each other.Last incident i can remember is about two weeks ago when i told the both of you to take an argument to PMs. If neither of you can figure out out how to block and ignore each im just going to drop a ban on the both of you. Probably a week.
Scheveningen Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 Sure, let's go for round two, because the first time really worked out for the both of us. Lemme put my thoughts on how I've behaved, though: I believe I was justified in saying the recent things lately because I genuinely think you're an intolerant and malicious person, and tolerating intolerance is not something I tolerate or care to uphold. You've demonstrated numerous times that you -- actually, hang on, Zelmana said it the absolute best in politicla thunderdome. I hope he gets a pat on the damn back for this. . ^ THIS, TBH, FAM. This represents one half of what I know about you. Other people I know generally are divided into more parts than this about what I find characteristic and unique to them. The only two things I find unique and significant to you are two things: 1.) You're great at insulting people and baiting people into arguments, 2.) In any form of discussion you always seek to 'win' the discussion, no matter the cost. You are ALWAYS right and everyone else is ALWAYS wrong. I think that this is important to bring up because they ended up joining the place itself. and using it as their own personal dumping grounds to post exclusively about why i'm satan incarnate. the irony of this statement, seeing as you pretty much do the same thing regardless about other people. It's the drama section of that discord, it is exactly what it is meant for. Blame [mention]Lohikar[/mention] for setting up a space for that. As a potential staff member, I wanted to avoid starting unintentional drama over this issue so is Shev would start anything, Apparently not, because you inferred I was both a downie and an N word to defend yourself rather than just picking the proper route and going, "You're right, I'm sorry" without the additional baggage you constantly sling on your statements directed at me, because it's evidently obvious you enjoy frustrating me, otherwise you wouldn't be doing it. You clearly didn't value your staff position enough to not act like you did, otherwise we wouldn't be at this stage where you're attempting to seek punishment on me for something you did far more wrong than I did. I'll ask other staff members whether being vocal about a very unfit staff member is against the rules and "harassment" now. All things considered, aren't you the hypocrite for accusing other people of harassment, seeing as how you pretty much inferred to me... ..That, because, what the fuck is wrong with you? From what I can pretty much guess based on how I've seen you treat me and others: You're either inept in regards to social conventions (making you really unqualified for staff) or you're a toxic, unrepentant asshole that only cares to apologize for their toxicity when there's consequences if you won't apologize (making you unqualified for this community). There's not really a thing in the middle here because I can't recall a single situation where you were remotely attempting to be nice to me. Even in the more calm period we both had after the first complaint, you were still acting incredibly suspicious, dismissive and low-key disrespectful towards me. Whether the suspicion is justified or not, it doesn't matter, because it's still proof you had very, very little respect for me. This escalated over time and now we're here. No, you haven't apologized in a direct, singular capacity towards me. You're flat out not telling the truth when you say you've sincerely apologized. I'm not complaining about them complaining behind my back, I'm complaining about the hypocrisy that occurs where they complain about complaints made in a semi-private environment and then complain in a semi-private environment. This entire sentence makes no sense and I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to a "semi-private environment." It's a public community. Anyone can join. Whether they stay is a different story. Now that I gave up on dev, I tried speaking to staff members privately about Shev's behavior as I didn't want to start another shitfest, but unfortunately it seems that no one is willing to deal with that issue, which is the impression I am getting, however I hope that just be me being negative. Funny enough, I spoke to the other head admin about whether you'd get punishment for your conduct in discord, since you left staff long before official discipline could be issued. . Are you familiar with the concept of 'crying Wolf?' While not 100% am I attempting to draw comparisons between that fable and your situation, I'm effectively saying the moral of the story here is that staff will judge the validity of a complaint based on the person issuing it. Similar concept, they probably don't just want to avoid dealing with me, they want nothing to do with you either, because your credibility lately is nil. Funny, it is almost as if what I said in #trashcan earlier this week has some truth to it. Take Garn's "I don't want to do work, leave me alone curls up in shell" statement: Alright this song and dance has gone on far too long. Determining who is less shit here is really not something i am interested in. You're both giant turds to each other.Last incident i can remember is about two weeks ago when i told the both of you to take an argument to PMs. If neither of you can figure out out how to block and ignore each im just going to drop a ban on the both of you. Probably a week. If he insists I block you or else I get a week-long ban, then I'll abide that and never talk to the OP over the public discord ever again. I imagine it doesn't bar me from replying to this forum post, if it does, oh well, I'll chance that risk for the sake of clarity. If I get slapped with a week long ban as a result of this post, I'm going to make an alt and post the Charlie Sheen "I don't know what I expected" meme in the off-topic board. /s Looking at his statement pretty much infers he already made up his mind about this entire situation and also pretty intent on doling out punishment already. Because he's one of two head administrators that's insisted the only recourse is to bury this issue until it rises up again. If both of the chief representatives of the administrative team have mostly been reticent about addressing this issue beyond what they've said already, it goes to show how much they want to bury this issue and move on. They don't want to deal with this. This pretty much means the only way this gets resolved in a way you like is that you speak to me through DMs to get all of this sorted and out of the way. Just a suggestion, though, I'd hazard a guess you have no intention in attempting to bury the hatchet for part 2 because you don't trust me. There's nothing I can say to get you to trust me. I don't care if you choose not to talk to me again. That's all I have to say. If Burger's response is not ideal, consider this post as the only one on this thread.
BurgerBB Posted July 26, 2018 Author Posted July 26, 2018 Alright this song and dance has gone on far too long. Determining who is less shit here is really not something i am interested in. You're both giant turds to each other.Last incident i can remember is about two weeks ago when i told the both of you to take an argument to PMs. If neither of you can figure out out how to block and ignore each im just going to drop a ban on the both of you. Probably a week. Done. Both on the forums and discord. Hopefully this will stop the callouts.
Garnascus Posted July 26, 2018 Posted July 26, 2018 Its not my job to sort out whatever personality issues the two of you have that causes you to treat each other like this. Its a testament to how lenient we as a team are that neither of you are banned yet. I am dead serious on that. I am going to assume burger has blocked you now delta. I want you to do the same. [mention]Scheveningen[/mention][mention]BurgerBB[/mention]
Garnascus Posted July 27, 2018 Posted July 27, 2018 GREAT [mention]Scheveningen[/mention][mention]BurgerBB[/mention] The next time you guys engage in internet bloodsports on github, these forums, discord or the server i will immediately dish out a MINIMUM of a week ban to the both of you. Block each other on discord and pretend the other doesn't exist everywhere else. This is not a restraining order. If the two of you must interact over a PR then i expect you to do so in a professional manner. If one of you makes a stab at the other then just immediately report it to staff and they will deal with it. "he started it" will not work as an excuse. If there is nothing else i am going to lock this in 24 hours.
BurgerBB Posted July 27, 2018 Author Posted July 27, 2018 Not sure I really approved of how this is being handled but I don't think there really isn't anything more than can be done, I guess.
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