Staff Complaint - QueenofYugoslavia

[Azande]

[b]BYOND Key:[/b] XanderDox
[b]Staff BYOND Key:[/b] queenofyugoslavia
[b]Game ID:[/b] I don't remember the GameID, but here is when the warning was applied which was during the round: 2018-12-06 02:22:29
[b]Reason for complaint:[/b] Misapplying a warning
[b]Evidence/logs/etc:[/b]
Warning is as follows:
"Please remember that while attacking security as a antag to avoid being arrested is valid, going as far as mid conversation with no threat and killing them and decapping them is far over whats allowed escalation wise. Please review the rules on escalation

[b]Additional remarks:[/b]

The reason I am contesting this warning is because the situation was fair.

I was a Dominian Priestess traitor, I was going to have an anti-synth gimmick because Dominians hate synths even when they aren't antags. Here's where everything went wrong.

Random bluespace crate spawned in behind my office - I thought oh cool, let's see whats in it (half the server rushes for these, it's a common thing). I found a posibrain and I was like oh cool, so I took it and two other things that were non-contraband and I handed the crate over to security.

Mind you, the CRATE IS NOT OWNED BY NANOTRASEN. The announcements clearly say it's an unregistered teleportation and that 'crew' should investigate it. So, I activated the posibrain which became alive as a player - I then told them they were a soulless husk of a non-being and cremated them (the player thought this was funny in LOOC).

Security then filed a warrant on me for 'destroying valuable station property' and 'detroying/altering a synthetic without authorization'. I found this out because I was passing out in the hall from a random even cloud of pepperspray. Officer Edward Sholl walked up to me, and tried showing me the warrant projector while I was literally passing out and stuttering.

Finally, I stopped passing out but I was still walking slow from the pain - I asked him if I could see the warrant so he showed it to me again. At this point, I HAD to act fast. I had an energy sword, shuriken, four EMP grenades, and a chamelon project on me. ALL of my crystals went towards this stuff and literally every inventory space I had on me was occupied by a traitor item. I was FUCKED if this officer brought me to the brig.

So, I had to kill him. If I had been taken to the brig, I'd be in a confined space (processing), where I would be searched by a warden armed even better than normal officers - and the AI would have a much easier time locking me down until more officers could arrive.

I told the officer "Well.... I can't really get arrested right now" (which QoY did NOT find in her investigation, and blatantly lies about in the warning - this was a clear indication I was about to resist). After I said this, I drew my energy sword and activated it, I then hit the officer three times, and his head flew off while he was still standing. I did not sit there and murderize him while he was on the floor, his head flew off because the speed of my attacks against his unprotected head caused his limb-separation code to activate. Doc (admin) tells me that this is not what Queen told him in msay when they were asking for advice on my ahelp, which would imply Queen did not investigate properly as she never asked me if I attacked him on the floor or not - and that she lied to an Admin about a player to get an answer they wanted.

To me, it was either:

1. Kill the Officer, and run - meaning I would still have opporunitites to interact with crew and pursue my gimmick, OR:
2. Don't kill the Officer, get arrested and permabrigged after all my gear is found. OR:
3. Try to run, but not have any access anywhere because I'm a Chaplain and then get gloriously batonned, and stunned down and then immediately searched and permabrigged.

So, I killed him. Now, QueenofYugoSlavia also accused me in bwoinks of 'removing him from the round', but this simply isn't true. A head reattachment surgery can be done in around 30 seconds by a competent surgeon player and a body can be cloned straight after that. 

The head was stolen by a DIFFERENT traitor, who did NOT tell me before they gibbed it in the kitchen gibber that they had stolen it or were planning on destroying it. I do not support the destruction of the head OOCly, nor did I have any IC or OOC part in destroying it. I was only informed after.


This is not the first time I have had issues with QueenofYugoslavia. They always bwoink me in the middle of active conflict that usually leads to me being distracted and then captured. They rarely know the mechanics of the game (which is troublesome when they're relevant to an investigation like claiming decapping stops a body from being cloned permanently). 


Overall, I would like this warning removed and some sort of training to occur. P.S. sorry if this looks ugly, the new forums are weird.

[Lady Fowl]

Ok so, first of all Claiming I don't know how game mechanics work is false when you twisted the wording of what was said in the ticket, which to help those reading I will post a snippet aswell as the full ticket and break it down

[01:27:26] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: hey, got a second? 
[01:27:31] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: Yup. 
[01:27:46] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Why did you attack the security officer? (?) 
[01:27:52] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: which one? (?) 
[01:28:03] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: sholl (?) 
[01:28:31] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: He was arresting me for destroying a posibrain in my cremator while I had all my traitor equipment in my pockets. If I let him arrest me, I'd be permabrigged as soon as they searched me. 
[01:30:11] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Why were you destroying the posi? 
[01:30:43] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I activated after I found it in the maintenance crate, when a player loaded into it, I told them they were a soulless demon and cremated them. They found it funny. I'm a Dominian Priestess traitor. Synth-hunting. 
[01:32:17] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Was there a reason you went for decapping the officer? (?) 
[01:32:26] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I needed to kill him, that was the quicket way. 
[01:32:44] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Why did you "need" to kill him 
[01:32:53] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: Already told you, please re-read my message. 
[01:33:11] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Im asking you to explain why you needed to kill him, not why he was arresting you 
[01:34:31] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: Him arresting me WAS the reason 
[01:34:51] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Have you read our rules on proper escalation during conflict? 
[01:36:19] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I've been here for five years, so I have. 
[01:36:32] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: as per admin heads gank policy, security are fair game if they try to arrest traitors. 
[01:36:55] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: what gank policy are you refering to 
[01:37:19] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: It is your job to know staff policy equally as mine, please ask an admin in asay/msay. Im in a security fight rn

[01:39:38] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: kindly link me this policy if you have it on you 
[01:43:51] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/1935-gank-amp-hostage-situations/
[01:44:02] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I asked Garn if this was still current last year and he said yes 
[01:45:00] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: It basically says if security is trying to interfere or arrest you, you can kill them. My entire round and gimmick would've been over 30 minutes in if the officer (?) had successfully arrested me, so I killed him 
[01:49:03] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Heres the issue. Killing them is one (?) thing yes but, why did you decap him? 
[01:49:23] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: because that was the quickest way to kill him, he didnt have a helmet on and hitting him anywhere else would've allowed him time to shoot me. 
[01:50:25] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: I think you understand that, its really pushing it to kill jhim outright instead of mortaly wounding him, but its very very excessive to take him and decap him to remove him from the round 
[01:50:32] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: especialy with no build up 

 

To which I was linked a policy from 2015, after discussing in msay with doc, evan and yonni it was determined decapping him even broke this quoted policy

 

 

 

 

 

[01:50:38] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: It didnt remove him, you can be cloned despite being decapped. 
[01:50:47] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: no, you cant. 

 

You cant be cloned without the head and brain. You are attempting to twist what was actualy said but however this is very minor.

[01:51:05] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: You know nothing about the game lmao. There's head re-attachment surgery, once you re-attach the head they can be cloned 
[01:51:22] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: If you'd like me to link you the surgery guide on the wiki to show you the operation, I can. 
[01:52:44] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Im aware you can clone with the head reattached. Thats not the point, nor is surgery the point. You went over what is acceptable to remove him from the round. Killing may be valid whilwe questionable yes. However decapping him goes over any point of whats acceptable, especialy with the lack of rp and lack of actual physical threat from him 

[01:53:22] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: It's not my fault that in the process of trying to kill him his head flew off. DEVS coded that feature, not me. I used a weapon to defend myself so I wouldnt be a traitor removed from the round 30 minutes in 
[01:53:41] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: The gank rules are clear and the action I took was acceptable. 
[01:55:20] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I was fully armed and geared and a search and arrest would've been an immediate round end for me. The Officer (?) got killed ebcause if I had 'injured' him, medical would have him up in seconds and then he'd also be hunting me down as I'd be on the run 
[01:55:57] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I didnt intend to remove him from the round I'm not the one (?) that got rid of his head nor did I ask the other traitor to get rid of it or even KNOW about him getting rid of it until it was already done. I left his head there purposefully so he could be cloned. 
[01:57:27] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: As an example, you cna check my ticket with Alb. Officers ran at myself and the toher traitor, and they got blown up by the welder tank we were already planning to deotonate because they posed a threat to us and he said ti was OK. 
[02:02:25] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: These are two (?) different issues 
[02:03:28] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: I have been invited out so I have to go in a few minutes, but I'll ask that you consult with the admins online about this because I dont want to have to file a staff complaint. The Officer (?) was about to END MY ROUND as an antag and icly asa traitor, so he got killed because that's collateral and under server rules AND gank rules, that is acceptable 
[02:03:59] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: It will be a few mintures so if you could wait that would be great 
[02:04:11] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: Sounds good, I should have 10-15 minutes before I have to go. 
[02:05:25] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: when the officer (?) approached you, did they ask you to come with them and you asked them to wait? 
[02:06:00] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: They asked me to come with them to the brig yes, I was recovering from a vent pepperspraying me 

 

VV showed no event of pepperspray nor did I find it in logs so this is up to debate which I hope the officer can confirm or deny, however still irrelevant

 

 

 

[02:10:21] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: My friend is on their way, I only have a few more moment. 
[02:10:45] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: one (?) moment and I will have my verdict on this 
[02:13:29] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Alright so 
[02:15:43] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: I have reviewed the logs aswell as screenshyots of the incident sent to me and I am going to leave it at this. Im applying a warning for this as this breaks the line of whats acceptable for escalation. While the opolicy is iffy and even agreed by staff that its old and not up to date, its irrelevent as this policy even itself was broken. they were showing no active threat towards you besides trying to arrest you to where you attacked them with no rp instead of attempting any other manner of evasion. You could of killed them or wounded them to where they would be unable to hunt you down but you picked to decap them to kill them as quickly as possible. 
[02:16:22] xanderdox -> queenofyugoslavia: Aright. I will see you in a staff complaint then, thanks for your help today. I gotta blsat for my tim hortons date 
[02:16:36] queenofyugoslavia -> xanderdox: Take care 

 

You left in a hurry, seeing just as you were captured and being borgified, which you did say you were leaving and is valid, the issue remains that you went far over anything acceptable for conflict with the officer. The officer was unarmed and had peacefully asked you to follow them to which you quickly made a comment and killed them moments later with no build up to this situation besides you destroying a posi. A warning was placed as you claimed top understand the rules yet went with this option aswell, followed by previous notes and warnings you have obtained. I have nothing against you personally nor was I attacking you. The issue was plain, you removed a user from the round with zero build up and solely to progress yourself. You even made the argument that he would of chased after you had he been healed by medical, which in all fairness, possible yes, but that drives a story forward. A antag isnt supposed to go in the middle of the hall and display this behavior

 

 

 

 

 

[Lady Fowl]

@Wigglesworth Jones @Yonnimer

[Garnascus]

So when i read this complaint i thought to myself "oh this is easy ill just cite the definition of gank in our glossary an-....". As it turns out we do say that gank is not acceptable in our "on being an antagonist" section but we do not define what specifically gank is in our glossary section. I reckon we appear to be working off of different definitions of what exactly "gank" is as a result. This is a fairly serious oversight that we must have missed when we redid the rules section over a year ago. The working definition that is meant to be used is fairly similar to the one xander cites in that now ancient forum post by doomberg. 

 

For reference something like "Gank is killing another player for absolutely no reason at all when there is no need at all". Generally we put emphasis on roleplay and interaction. So we expect antagonists to provide something to their kill targets first. This condition can be subverted if the individual can be reasonable expected to be a threat to you. So for example if you are breaking into the HoS's office and a cadet randomly walked by and spots you then you have justification to immediately pull out a weapon and murder him. You've been spotted committing a seriously offence and you likely have contraband on you that will land you time in the brig or in perma. 

In this situation xander was being arrested while he has an esword on him. There is a reasonable basis here to expect that once he is arrested they will search him and find the esword. At best they will confiscate it and brig him for more time. This will also place a greater suspicion on him for the remainder of the round. At worst he will be permabrigged and interrogated. This is a gamble xander should not be expected to take. Therefore i do see a good reason for xander to pull his esword out and chop the guards head off. It seems reasonable to me to consider this was the quickest and easiest way to kill the guard. I do not really fault our staff here since its on us for not clearly defining this in our glossary. A mistake that will be rectified. 

With all of this being said i reckon this warning should be expunged. Unless i am missing something?

[KingOfThePing]

Hello, since it got asked in the ahelp: I was the positronic brain. It was funny, I didn't pay attention and should've known that nothing good awaits me in the hands of a Dominian priestess. I had a laugh. He got me there, no salt needed. To the decapitation, that happened shortly after: As far as I remember it from deadchat Wigglesworth wasn't salty about his death and the decapitation drove the story of the round, since nothing at all happened before. With the death of Sholl the round really took off (in a good way). The only thing I see as problematic was that the head was missing and no attempt to clone the body could be made, even though all medical staff would've been present to do so.

Edited December 6, 2018 by KingOfThePing
Grammar is hard, mkay. Also I am dumb

[Wigglesworth Jones]

Hi. I was Sholl. I wasn't super salty about the death in general, though my head being stolen and gibbed (by someone else, mind you) was iffy. It was surprising, at the very least.  I don't personally think it was gank, but I ahelped to clear it up, just in case. I mean, I definitely would have preferred not dying, but that just happens sometimes, not much I can do about that.

[Garnascus]

Right so

 

In closing this warning is getting expunged from your record. Complaint resolved.