Player(s) Complaint: [Security Personnel During Round]]

[Fortport]

BYOND Key: Fortport
Game ID: b1t-b5l4
Player Byond Key: Unknown. Security staff at the time. Cannot remember who the negotiator representing them was, but nobody on security disregarded their decision to my knowledge.
Staff involved: This was regrettably not ahelped by me or anyone. Like everyone else, I vented in OOC after the nuke exploded and while moderators were commentating. As far as I know, no staff were directly responsible for what happened.
Reason for complaint: Poor roleplay and a lack of fear on security's part. Though the antagonists(of which mercenary team I was a part of) may not have been perfect, we had stated our demands more than once over comms before entering the station. All of the mercenaries(including myself, codename "Mufasa") went to the captain's office first. We took the spare ID, the nuclear disk, and the captain's gun before heading into the security department through tele maintenance(around an hour into the round or even less).

Earlier in the round(before we boarded) we decided that we wanted Lt. Columbo, and I'm very sure we mentioned it at least once or twice during our first threats and demands. It is why we went into the security department, anyway. Approximately three/four mercenaries, all armed to the teeth with explosives and weapons and dragging a NUKE behind them(which we could detonate at any moment), were stopped in the hall by all of security. Mufasa(me) lead negotiations with one of the security employees(unsure of rank, cannot remember exactly) on the other side with his coworkers, blocking the path. Mufasa said that they must move out of the way, or they will be bombed. He even held it up in the air where everyone could see it(and the cyborg had a grenade too, but they didn't know that.)

The security member leading negotiations said that they would not move, because they did not want the mercenaries to get into their armory. They refused to move in the end, staying fixed to the spot even when threatened with an explosive and given a chance to move. After several seconds pass with Security unwilling to make a compromise, Mufasa threw the bomb and the cyborg dropped its grenade(which exploded catastrophically). Meanwhile, one of the mercenaries orchestrating the whole operation saw everything go to shit. The nuke was detonated two minutes after this, and the round was over. Anti-climax, but the antagonists did what they threatened because security clearly wouldn't let us do anything without a fight. Even if we had a nuke and explosives and were in a narrow hallway with them.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation?: No, unfortunately. Though everyone complained in OOC, nobody ahelped this even though everyone was clearly not happy.
Approximate Date/Time: May 28, 2019. The round ended at 8:52 AM.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Fortport

[VTCobaltblood]

I have been in that round.

It's funny to hear you say that security had poor roleplay when your mercenary team activated an on-station nuke, killing all people on it, over a dog out of all things. That is honestly a tg-level gimmick that has no place on a high roleplay server, where your characters are expected to act believably. Would you believe that a team of terrorists would activate a nuclear bomb because they weren't given the dog?

"Security didn't give in to our demands, so they got what they deserved" is a poor excuse for this. Why are terrorists with a nuclear device threatening to activate said device because of a dog in the first place? I'm not a moderator to decide if it's antag ban-worthy, but I have a feeling that it is. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by VTCobaltblood

[Fortport]

10 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said:

I have been in that round.

It's funny to hear you say that security had poor roleplay when your mercenary team activated an on-station nuke, killing all people on it, over a dog out of all things. That is honestly a tg-level gimmick that has no place on a high roleplay server, where your characters are expected to act believably. Would you believe that a team of terrorists would activate a nuclear bomb because they weren't given the dog?

The nuke wasn't detonated until after a big explosion nearly killed ALL the mercenaries(one of us died, and also our cyborg) and the nuke was removed from our possession. The explosion that nearly killed everyone was from a grenade the cyborg dropped. I cannot remember if the nuke blew up because of someone doing so manually or because we started a timer to intimidate them and wanted to shut it off, but our cyborg blew us up and we could not toggle it. Someone might be able to read the game and see exactly what happened.

Regardless of how you want to dice the outcome, what is absolute is that security refused to move despite overwhelming firepower, bombs, a nuke, and threats that they intended to use it. Right in front of them. All they had to do was move and they didn't, priming the encounter to escalate because they were stubborn("do it, you won't"), despite being given chances to not fight.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Fortport

[VTCobaltblood]

1 minute ago, Fortport said:

The nuke wasn't detonated until after a big explosion nearly killed ALL the mercenaries(one of us died, and also our cyborg) and the nuke was removed from our possession. The explosion that nearly killed everyone was from a grenade the cyborg dropped. I cannot remember if the nuke blew up because of someone doing so manually or because we started a timer to intimidate them and wanted to shut it off, but our cyborg blew us up and we could not toggle it.

Your gimmick was still pretty much "nuclear operatives really want Lt. Colombo". Which is, again, a poor, tg-level gimmick that is absolutely not believable. Even before you detonated the nuke, you threatened to do so. Over the dog. How is this good roleplay?

[Fortport]

2 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said:

Your gimmick was still pretty much "nuclear operatives really want Lt. Colombo". Which is, again, a poor, tg-level gimmick that is absolutely not believable. Even before you detonated the nuke, you threatened to do so. Over the dog. How is this good roleplay?

1

We wanted more than just the dog. We wanted other valuable things from every head's office, and at least a hostage or two(one of which being a head, for ransom). We were in that department for the dog, and threatened to use the nuke as a measure of leverage. The nuke was detonated for some reason/somehow after everyone was seriously injured and casualties being taken, rather than just "we didn't get our dog"

Edited May 30, 2019 by Fortport

[VTCobaltblood]

1 minute ago, Fortport said:

We wanted more than just the dog.

As far as I recall, over the common radio, you have only stated you wanted Lt. Colombo. Still, I don't see how any of this justifies a nuke. If you wanted your gimmick to be stealing valuable things, you could have accomplished that on raider, not on mercenary with nuke threatening. You are a team of terrorists, not petty thieves.

[Fortport]

5 minutes ago, VTCobaltblood said:

As far as I recall, over the common radio, you have only stated you wanted Lt. Colombo. Still, I don't see how any of this justifies a nuke. If you wanted your gimmick to be stealing valuable things, you could have accomplished that on raider, not on mercenary with nuke threatening. You are a team of terrorists, not petty thieves.

Taking everything valuable and holding a ransom, with intents to roleplay with hostages, was squandered upon us all being blown up. The nuke was used as a last resort by someone. I was just as disappointed that the round abruptly ended as everyone else, and I don't recall any of us actually saying to prime or start the timer on the nuke.

As Mufasa doing negotiations in that hall, I never said we were detonating the nuke if they didn't let us get Columbo.(me, myself, just focusing on that situation). Just that I had a bomb, and intended to throw it at security if they did not move. Which ended up happening. The nuke was someone else's call.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Fortport

[furrycactus]

I was also in this round, playing as one of the members of command. While security weren't exceptional by any stretch, well. Forgive my bluntness, but the entire antag gimmick was extremely not engaging. You announced immediately on arrival that you were literally bringing an entire nuke onboard and would set it off if you didn't get everything you wanted in a very "do exactly what we want or everyone in the round dies" kind of way, which frankly, was extremely shit.

Certainly, security could've acted far better. I wasn't very impressed with them either, and think they did a terrible job; but at the same time, I can't lay all the fault at their feet, considering you all showed up to the station thinking that dragging an entire nuclear warhead onboard was fine. Did you expect security to just bend over and let you do as you pleased while carrying a fucking nuke~ onboard??? Which was detonated at the one hour mark, no less, killing the entire crew, the majority of which got no RP out of this entire situation whatsoever aside from having to hide in their departments because of code red and code delta.

I would also argue for an antag ban personally, but it's absolutely not my call to make in the slightest. The nuke is bad play practically always, and should just be removed if you ask me. Or at the very least, not be allowed to be taken off the ship without proper escalation. You guys dragged it on the station with you as soon as you arrived, so I have no sympathy for any of you, honestly.

[Fortport]

28 minutes ago, furrycactus said:

I was also in this round, playing as one of the members of command. While security weren't exceptional by any stretch, well. Forgive my bluntness, but the entire antag gimmick was extremely not engaging. You announced immediately on arrival that you were literally bringing an entire nuke onboard and would set it off if you didn't get everything you wanted in a very "do exactly what we want or everyone in the round dies" kind of way, which frankly, was extremely shit.

Certainly, security could've acted far better. I wasn't very impressed with them either, and think they did a terrible job; but at the same time, I can't lay all the fault at their feet, considering you all showed up to the station thinking that dragging an entire nuclear warhead onboard was fine. Did you expect security to just bend over and let you do as you pleased while carrying a fucking nuke~ onboard??? Which was detonated at the one hour mark, no less, killing the entire crew, the majority of which got no RP out of this entire situation whatsoever aside from having to hide in their departments because of code red and code delta.

I would also argue for an antag ban personally, but it's absolutely not my call to make in the slightest. The nuke is bad play practically always, and should just be removed if you ask me. Or at the very least, not be allowed to be taken off the ship without proper escalation. You guys dragged it on the station with you as soon as you arrived, so I have no sympathy for any of you, honestly.

The whole point of this complaint was to direct attention to the escalation that ended the round in the first place. The nuke was brought aboard, sure. Antag ban everyone(someone) for that. The nuke wasn't intended to be detonated at all prematurely by me, and I never even tried to do so(nor wanted it).

Of course, I'm not advocating the stupid idea that they let us do whatever we want for an entire game. Just act like they're scared instead of just flat out saying no and not budging an inch in spite of many warnings(with bombs) and a loaded pause giving them opportunities. Again, I don't agree with the nuke blowing. But what lead to the nuke blowing was them being a hardass and unafraid when they had every reason not to be. They were outgunned, outmatched, and should have tried another tactic.

Anything to make the game go on longer and not end so soon. I never wanted the nuke to explode, nor would I have tried in that instance. Security is partly to blame, and so may be the one who just pushed the button and got it started when three of us were still alive and could continue the operation(we didn't need the nuke to be detonated, we had our things, we wanted revenge).

Edited May 30, 2019 by Fortport

[Lady Fowl]

I will be handling this

[Fortport]

3 hours ago, DRagO said:

I will be handling this

Thank you. Keep in mind that security may not be entirely at fault, and that whoever made the call as an antagonist might need to be corrected to. I agree with everyone on that.

[Lady Fowl]

Right so, after looking over this situation, There is a majority of things that went wrong here. Firstly starting with Rusty ordering the borg to engage frag grenades. Up until this point, things were relatively calm. The issue begin with Rusty ordering the borg to engage grenades, which they then fired a grenade out, followed by the TTV being thrown by the Mercs aswell, followed by the mercs for the most part being wiped out then the remaining merc detonating the nuke. 

I believe that security itself could of done a very very better job in how they conducted themself, moreso on the part of the Head Of Security, however that does not excuse the actions of the Merc team who escalated this far beyond where it needed to go with the frag grenade being launched at security, then the TTV and Nuke.

I have talked to most of the partys involved and have come to the conclusion that, this while the merc gimmick was very cheesy in the sense of wanting Columbo, the situation would of been avoided had one of the mercs not ordered the borg to fire a grenade right at that instant. In the future if something like this is questioned if this is ok to do it should be ahelped so staff can give guidance on this.

With this being said, the merc who ordered the grenade be fired will be handled, however for the other Mercs, I will be applying warning them of there behavior and poor escalation, the TTV being thrown after the mercs engaged first wasnt really needed and again could of been avoided had the one merc not escalated this further. Further more I will begin a internal conversation to develop rules about nuke deployment in the future, while the merc who survived the TTV was alone and surrounded, I do not feel detonating the nuke itself was the best option here and should of been avoided.

However, I feel certain members of security should of been abit more cooperative with the situation, the Head of security especially lacking really any fear rp will be warned for this.


 

 

 

[Naelynn]

Hello, I would like to post my side of the events.

In that round I was Valor, the operative responsible for priming the nuke and ending the round prematurely.

Earlier today I was contacted by DRagO and made aware of this post. While DRagO has already decided on the verdict, I am merely writing this as to explain my side of the story. Whatever conclusions will end up happening I will accept, and whatever you will end up thinking of me is fair, however.. I would ask you to read this post before making up your mind.

The round started and we were trying to decide on a gimmick, which ended up being nuke ops after some deliberation in aooc [there was an admin responding in aooc and he approved of the idea, as such, it wasn't a-help approved, but I viewed it as such due to said approval.]

Being involved in a Nuke Ops round on aurora before, I tried to copy the protocol by informing the station ahead of time. - If memory serves this warning was delivered about 10 minutes before we boarded the station. We did so using the intercom on the merc ship.

Here I believe was my first failure -> Despite establishing myself as a defacto leader of the merc team, I didn't communicate our demands clearly to the crew. I only said we were coming with a nuke, and that we'll take what we want. This didn't facilitate anything really, and only served to sow fear and resentment in the crew. I was too focused on the merc internal comms and not enough on the public radio.

After landing on surface, we made a b-line from the shuttle to captain's office via EVA, this has avoided most of the initial conflict with security as we entered via surface command. There were no attempts at stealth, as we breached the hull with an e-sword, and the station had an AI. The security was informed of our arrival a few moments later.

We moved the device to captain's office and dealt with some derp moments as none of us knew how to use a wall mounted secure safe. 

Here comes the second big failure of my approach -> While we were trying to retrieve the nuke disk from the secure safe in captain's office, my team got restless and started scattering, doing their own thing. Until that point we were pretty much on the same page what we wanted, but my inability to resolve the situation quickly and keep the team in check resulted in loss of control. This will reveal itself as the core mistake later. 

During this, I also tried to communicate with the station again. I informed them that our next demand is Lt. Colombo, and that we're going to take him. (Our gimmick was that we were hired to rob the station, and given a target from each heads' office.  My target was captain's offfice, and the unique laser - which I retrieved and carried on me. Each other merc chose the target they were given in their contract - next on the list was Lt. Colombo.)

Third failure -> Once again, my communication with the station was lacking. Only one message, and then back to radio silence. However, I realized it before leaving captain's office and snatched the captain's headset to try to communicate a little more. This I believe was the correct move, but combined with mistake #2 it is what caused the round to end prematurely on my part.

After we successfully learned to drag-n-drop the safe onto us, we looted the disk and captain's id and copied the access, before proceeding to move through maintenance to security. At this point I was starting to communicate with the crew more than with my own team - See mistake #2. I didn't manage to strike a balance of keeping my mercs in check and keeping some radio communication with Aurora going. 

After we exited the maintenance into security, the Ai did it's best to hamper our progress - whatever, it's to be expected, no big deal, however, then the main heated moment arrived - two armed officers holding the hallway against a team of 4 mercs, armed to the teeth and dragging a nuclear device. This is where mistakes #2 and #3 escalated and caused the round to go south.

The officers were doing their best hero impression in the face of the armed merc team, and didn't seem to back off right away. So I went ahead and primed the nuke and then immidiately turned it off to trigger code delta. After this, I focused on the radio to try to calm the crew down - I didn't want to blow up more than anyone else on board. However, this focusing on external communication made me completely miss the above mentioned command to the cyborg to throw a frag, as well as the tank transfer valve being used. The only memory I have of the event was that I believe that the security were willing to back off, but i'm not even sure that is true because of how hectic things got right after. 

My entire screen went white as security department exploded. When I woke up from the explosion, I was the only merc standing. I attributed this to the fact that I was wearing a rigsuit, while rest were only in voidsuits. My health status was reporting that I am in critical. I assumed this means that I'm most likely to die of internal bleeding soon. My next assumption was that it was security who detonated us, as I missed the aforementioned order for the borg and the usage of the tank transfer valve bomb. Finally, there was no way for me to correct the missinformation as my character was deafened from the explosions, and all other mercs were down on the ground. Because all other merc characters have not recovered from the explosions by the time I oriented myself and took few seconds to think about things, I have assumed them deceased.  The nuclear device was blown off screen by the force of the explosion. At first I had thought the nuke detonated, but it was merely pushed a screen to the right. Or maybe I was pushed to the left of it, hard to tell when everything is blown up.

Seeing how I believed I was already dead, and that none of my team had survived, AND that the cause of this was ISD, I had searched the area for the nuke and primed it once again. It is important here to note that I did not remove the disk, nor did I remove the code. Defusing the nuke would have been as simple as walking up to it and pressing a button.

Then I had attempted to head towards where I assumed the officers were. The officers I had thought to have thrown a grenade to kill us. Seeing how I believed I was a dead man walking [which turned out to be true shortly later], and how I believed we were attacked by security, I opened fire without asking any questions. The officer tried to shoot me with an ion multiple times, but I was playing a completely organic character and was using a ballistic weapon - as such it had absolutely no effect. By the time the officer ran out of ammo, my character had bled out to death and succumbed to their wounds.

While ghosting I saw a person coming from direction of the nuke, and I assumed it disarmed - primarily because the crew was refusing to believe me on radio earlier when I said that it was inactive despite code delta being triggered.

I only learned after I died in ghost/ooc chat that it was our own team who blew us up, not the enemy team. Furthermore, it appears most of my team had survived and only took way longer to recover from the stun than Valor did. They also apparently evacuated to the shuttle, so Valor ended up being the teamkiller.

If I had known ooc that it was our own team who detonated us, and not security I probably would have even meta'd it and tried to retreat or even surrender. But, as the things were, I didn't know IC, nor OOC. Why didn't I know IC? Because I had to take off merc headset to talk into captain's headset - can't hear team comms.

If you'd like to give me your feedback about my approach and how you think I could have done better in that situation, feel free to contact me on discord - Naetatolynn#1337

Edited June 2, 2019 by Naelynn

[Lady Fowl]

This has been resolved, locking and archiving