Staff Complaint - Garnascus

[Nikov]

BYOND Key: Nikov

Staff BYOND Key: Garnascus

Game ID: N/A

Reason for complaint:

This is an unconventional request. It is not directed at an individual staff member but a system of accumulating small problems.

I have been playing on this server since 2015, and over the course of four years, have acquired some number of notes and warnings. Many of these are old, some are new. My most recent warning is from 2018, yet "a history of warnings" has been cited as proof I need to "improve my antag RP" by a trialmin.

I do not care to go line-by-line through my warnings and notes going back four years, and have never cared to drag individual warnings into staff complaints and appeals. I simply ask this. Given that notes dating back to 2015 are still being used against me in 2019 by trialadmins who do not have the context to understand improvement of play since the time of those notes, I would like my formal record purged.

Individual administrators and senior staff know me and will continue to know me. Most, I hope, think I am a decent player. However four years of records being presented to someone who has never met me colors their impression of me at first glance, and given that multiple ban appeals have been made regarding trialmins citing my notes or past warnings, I feel this has become a self-perpetuating problem, and not one based on my present behavior, but based on my distant, prior behavior.

 

  Quote
Having huge sheets of notes and warnings isnt necessarily a bad thing. We look for patterns of consistent behavior when we ban someone. After about three months or so a note or a warning becomes a lot less relevant. Unless you're an odd case where you have months of inactivity and then you go back to being a massive shithead. Cases like that are super rare though.

-- Garnascus

Long after three months, I am having four-year-old notes leveled against me. Unless I am a massive shithead (and I'm certain I can be on occasion) I'd like a clean slate presented to people who don't otherwise know me. If I am a massive shithead, I'd like a clean slate so I can respect a bwoink as an individual action being judged individually, and not feel that outdated records are coloring all of my interactions with new staff members.

 

Until then, why risk it. I've turned all my antag roles off.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Nikov

[Garnascus]

33 minutes ago, Nikov said:

by trialadmins who do not have the context to understand improvement of play since the time of those notes, I would like my formal record purged.

It sounds like you disagree with the judgement they made for the reason stated. That would be an appropriate reason to make a complaint against them and potentially an issue we would look to address. It was @Cnaym If you could give us some information about this incident. 

[Nikov]

I don't have logs. I was informed by the trial admin that 'in light of your record of notes going back years I am telling you that you need to be a better antag rper'. Except... you yourself have stated that notes going back that are 'a lot less relevant'. This is not the first time this problem has arisen. There have been multiple threads and ban appeals on the subject of trialmins viewing my notes from 2015 and taking actions that ended up overturned. Always, my notes play into their perceptions.

I'm just asking for a clean slate so I can move on without play from 2015, and behaviors I've long since stopped engaging in, coloring the perception of new moderators in 2019. I've taken many of these notes to heart, such as AFKing when a single slot role or cryoing carrying a vital object. Some of these notes predate the Aurora II and date back to the Exodus. Actually, most of them do. I play less and less because it seems being an antag is under rising scrutiny every round I play due to the note accumulation.

[Garnascus]

I am sorry but we do not expunge notes for this reason. We can overturn specific instances however and we can also better communicate the validity of years old notes. 

[Cnaym]

6 hours ago, Garnascus said:

It was @Cnaym If you could give us some information about this incident.

It was the round after b2d-dFMi. Voted extended mini canon thing. A mime was added to the station. Since it was deemed to small of  an event we voted to add antags. Before the vote concluded changelings got spawned by the random event which created a bit of a messy round. The vote added traitors to the gamemode. Nikov playing Manfred Hayden as Chief Engineer was one of them. The first note of that round was added by @Alberyk when Nikov gunned down the mime without any prior interaction, the second was added by me when the mime tried to figur out ICly why he was attacked by going to the visitors area and getting bombed without any interaction. Options here where another note, a warning or a ban. After some back and forth in the PM with me i read the notes on Nikov and was honestly suprised that it seemed like no improvement had been made over a massive amount of warnings. Told them since these where older but consistent notes and the fact that alb added a note for the same problem earlier in the same round I'd refrain from an outright warning and add a  note saying to give a warning the next time this happens.

Yes the notes started 2015. The issue I had was that they where consistent and your antag play did not seem to have improved. That's also why i told you to take it to the forums. As a trial i could have been in the wrong and I'm perfectly fine to admit that, but given the circumstances I'd rather say that the situation was handled to friendly. If you where a new player without notes and warnings of that exact problem I would have given you a warning, but to be honest I did not get the feeling that you learned from those.

In conclusion: Yes I went easy of you in regard to the age of the notes / warnings. No i don't think you earned a clean slate by your behavior that round.

[Nikov]

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug. Nice forty-five posts there chief. Joined after SsethTide?

Garn, this is the problem. A lot of players will say I am an excellent antag who goes to lengths to play to lose scenarios, but someone who has never met me sees four year old notes and presumes I'm a shitter. Do you have a habit of documenting positive interactions? Do admins and mods return to note if players have improved in their opinion? They don't. There are only negative marks. And while Alberyk saw fit to pump the brakes and speak with me, he didn't tell me to not continue. He just laid a note out which a trial admin dutifully complied with. I now have two notes on me; one for not roleplaying in advance of attacking (stalking someone to an isolated room doesn't count I suppose) and another for not escalating. I already tried to kill the mime the first time. How much escalation is required to try to kill the mime a second time?

Security, meanwhile, loved the murder mystery and the story, and thought it was perfect. The primary role of the antagonist is to make roleplay for the station. I made roleplay for the station.

My last warning was one from 2018 and another from 2017. Is that a problem player? I spoke to you about this, Garn. You told me I did not have the note record of someone who seemed not long for this server. Yet clearly, another trial admin thinks I am. When you see a player going back four years who hasn't had a warning all year, one warning last year, and a warning the year before; why are you assuming two warnings in three years make a bad player.

It is really strange how every appeal I have to post involves trial moderators who cite my notes.

[Cnaym]

1 hour ago, Nikov said:

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

True. Still the choice here was to ignore every note on you or consider their age. I did a mix of that and worked off the new note you had for the same round, while letting you know that the older ones don't exactly give of a good picture.

1 hour ago, Nikov said:

It is really strange how every appeal I have to post involves trial moderators who cite my notes.

Glad that you see a common theme there. Id like to see this resolved as my none antag interactions with you have been great so far, which in that case was the reason to just go for a note instead of the other options. Had another trial took it it would have looked differently, but then again they where playing the mime so that would have been biased as hell.

[Alberyk]

What is the purpose of this complaint? What is being disputed here? And why is it against Garn?

[Alberyk]

Right, so, garn is right. We won't delete your past notes. Feel free to make a complaint trying to dispute the note put by the trial.

I guess this is solved. Going to lock this in around one day or so.