Staff complaint-sonicgotnuked

[VUX]

BYOND Key: Uglyxeno
Staff BYOND Key: Sonicgotnuked(?)
Game ID: I don't have the game ID, but I do have the time in which it took place.

Reason for complaint:
They seem to have gotten a lot of details about the situation wrong. I was pretty OK with the ban until I read the ban reason, which is pretty inconsistent with what I experienced.
Basically, it all started when the away mission I was on heard about a code delta on the station and we all returned to the shuttle and held a vote on whether or not we should go back.
Three people voted to stay on the away mission past the end of the round (which was pointed out by several of the away crew to be a suicidal prospect) and one voted to return (me).
One other person then commented that it was cowardly, illegal, and so on that the research director would have us stay on the away mission. I voiced my disagreement with staying as well, openly calling it suicidal. The other person who voiced his disagreement seemed willing to follow orders, however.
The research director stated that, indeed, the vote didn't matter, that it was not in fact a democracy, and that he had made his decision that we were going to stay. Then he started talking about some of the missing away mission crew, and he walked by me. That's when I saw my chance. Since I was only an engineer, and wasn't skilled at fighting, I decided to use a poison that I'd found on the station to attempt to disable the RD assuming, of course, that to stay would be suicide and that he was going to force us to stay; he was also armed and fitted with a hardsuit and was more than capable of beating me alone in a fight.
I may have made a mistake on whether or not it was OK to know what the poison did, but that was not part of the thought process. I didn't have any other way to easily subdue him and I could not count on anyone else to help.

Evidence/logs/etc:
I did not log this round.


Additional remarks:
I disagree completely with the point that this is improper escalation as the situation was framed as a life or death struggle, and the research director had already told us that our vote was pointless and that he was making the decisions. Additionally, someone who is not a fighter would logically prefer to take the easy way and feed their opponent some unknown possibly-deadly poison rather than physically confront them; it is a matter of life and death after all.

Edited December 8, 2019 by VUX
adjusting format for complaint rather than appeal

[Brutishcrab51]

b4B-abP9, the round ID.

I was also a part of the away team as a Security Officer. There was a lot of tension in the team, and the RD had decided we were going to stay at the away site (Bear had apparently been intending to let the two of us go back to the station, but hadn't gotten that far yet) when he was given the poison. I was personally considering going the route of "yeah well this isn't a democracy and i have a rifle" to the people onboard, but instead followed-in when he was poisoned.

That's all, folks.

[Garnascus]

What do you mean it was suicidal to remain on the away mission? 

[VUX]

The situation was that the station was, the RD told us, going to blow up and we were going to be stranded on an airless derelict. My and some others' argument was that we still had a chance to make it to the escape shuttle before it left if we went back to the station, where we'd just be marooned in space otherwise.

[Garnascus]

Ok but the away mission shuttle comes with TWO tank storage units with 10 oxygen tanks each, a large canister of oxygen as well as a red storage container for even more oxygen if that one gets drained. This is like.... WEEKS of oxygen. That is an absolutely absurd amount of oxygen. 

[VUX]

There were artifacts back there that we'd been forbidden to go near, and it was heavily implied that one of them had already eaten one of our away mission teammates. Also, there isn't enough food and water for weeks back there.

[Garnascus]

Alright, thats fair. I do not know what this poison was but i think if you did not know what it was IC then force feeding it to the RD is..... pretty much metagaming. As to whether or not you had a good reason to whoop his ass or not i do not know. I am not super comfortable with letting people subdue their superiors in "life or death situations" because realistically thats almost every round. I will wait for sonic's side. 

[VUX]

Well, I assumed that having some knowledge of that kind of thing was common enough for me to at least have some idea that it was dangerous and that he would, at the very least, be distracted enough for me to do what I had to do before he rallied himself.

For instance, in real life, most of us could probably guess that a container marked cyanide or sarin is probably really bad, so ingame a container marked with a powerful poison would probably be obviously bad as well.

But as for not letting people subdue their superiors, like... that would mean that a security officer turning on the head of security for ordering them to shoot unarmed people, for instance, should also be banned. With the interpretation of the situation several of us were running with there, if we stayed that was definitely going to kill us, where going back to the station would only maybe kill us, and the decision had to be made quickly because the escape shuttle was already on the way.

We ended up missing it anyway, though.

[Garnascus]

Wait the container literally said something like "DANGEROUS POISON"? 

[VUX]

It said "This vial contains dextrotoxin!"
I assume it's labeled dextrotoxin, which has toxin in the name.

[Garnascus]

LOL, oh. Well in that case then its completely reasonable to assume thats some bad shit. My bad. 

[Bear]

Posting as I was the one poisoned.

As brutish said I was in the middle of saying typing about making a rescue team in to gather as many as we could after the vote of the team was to stay. The artifact in question was ordered to stay away from until we knew for sure what it did as someone had gone missing (which we found was them being hidden by a chair in the other room safe and sound). The gank was exactly that, a gank. You waited until I was typing with a typing indicator to start feeding me the poison. You're an engineer going back to what we can all read as a station set to explode and decided to poison (which im still not exactly sure why you had.. as an engineer) the lead member on the ship because you wanted to go back to the place that was exploding... We had brought in spare supplies, including other Air cannisters and were talking about re-calibrating the ship to jump to the Odin. 

The vial was labeled Dextrotoxin so:

Knowing this, you decided to poison someone with something that could potentially kill them as the group had decided to stay. I told you and Easter it wasn't a democracy. I had decided to get an informed consent on what the mass' wishes were to carry my own decision. You attempted to commit potential murder so you could go back to a place that was going to explode by force feeding TOXINS to someone who wasn't even finished explaining his plan with very little build up.

All in all I was pretty unimpressed with with the mutiny.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Bear

[VUX]

I think you're assuming a lot. I didn't see any typing indicator.
I had the poison because I found it, just like I found a bunch of other weapon-type things I turned in. I held onto it when I heard things were going wrong on the off chance that I might have to use it.

[Bear]

So you silently pocketed poison to use against your coworkers because you might need too? You hear, oh shit the station is going to self destruct, and your thoughts are "I better poison the director here to go back to the station that is about to blow up while everyone else but one person says god no".  Regardless my own thoughts on it all aside as I actually don't care all that much, I simply ask you roleplay with me more in the future. State more adamantly you want to go back. I would have offered to blue-space jump in and out had you been adamant enough, I was hardly even aware you were upset about it but I definitely did not enjoy spending 5-10 minutes unable to do literally anything until the paramedic preformed dialysis. Anyways I don't think I have much else than that to contribute to this post so I'll be bowing out from here.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Bear's character attempted to murder mine in cold blood with a laser rifle, a pickaxe, his boot, and other harmful instruments over a similar disagreement on the same shuttle after Vux's character left. It does not seem fair that he would be so angry about poison being used against his character over a disagreement over where the shuttle goes, but then he would turn around and attempt to kill someone with something a lot more loud than poison over where the shuttle goes.

If poisoning a coworker is bad, so is emptying a laser rifle into them...

Edited December 8, 2019 by Marlon Phoenix

[sonicgotnuked]

The round ID is b4B-abP9

 

I was able to piece together this series of events during my investigation when I was contacting people.

1. The station goes into code delta for 2 seconds due to round progression that the away team was not apart of.
2. There is a disagreement among the group.
3. People want to stay. The RD wants to stay. I'm told there was a vote.
4. During this vote, before VUX's character made their thoughts known, they straight force feed the RD the parapen toxin. There was no further argument. It appeared the RD was trying to explain and VUX decided to result to potential murder. This is poor escalation. 

VUX made it clear to me that they understood what the toxin was due to me questioning why an engineer would know what it is, and poison people with it. They told me prior that they didn't know that a random engineer does not know what every chemical does before piecing together that it was a scary name so it naturally has to be force fed to the RD over a disagreement that just started. ICly, parapen toxin is logically not as common as cyanide for example. But this wasn't the main reason why I placed the ban.

Everything that happened after that. I deemed this as a result of poor escalation. This occurred while I was wrapping up and preparing to allow the round to end due to it stretching out to 20ish minutes at this point.

1. Disarm spam against the RD.
2. There's a scuffle.
3. Phoenix's character gets shot by the laser rifle.

 

 

 

 

 

[Bear]

1 hour ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Bear's character attempted to murder mine in cold blood with a laser rifle, a pickaxe, his boot, and other harmful instruments over a similar disagreement on the same shuttle after Vux's character left. It does not seem fair that he would be so angry about poison being used against his character over a disagreement over where the shuttle goes, but then he would turn around and attempt to kill someone with something a lot more loud than poison over where the shuttle goes.

If poisoning a coworker is bad, so is emptying a laser rifle into them...

The laser was only present due to Vux's unathi threatening us all and as my ID had been stolen I could not utilize my RIG so, I decided I would shoot him if he did not surrender or leave over letting him try to space us (which he did almost successfully) instead of complying to being put in cuffs by the entire rest of the shuttle. 

I'm sorry you felt that's how it was going or that there was not enough communication between our chars. My char did ask you to stop several times as I did in looc thought that may have been lost in the red-text logs and the OOC spam. The pickaxe used against you was yours after you charged us with it.. after pulling your own gun and shooting us. None of us wanted to go back to place that was about to blow up.
I actually holstered the rifle and used claws against you when you disarm spammed me for a bit, despite you pulling your own gun. The las gun was after repeated attempts trying to get you to stop trying to hijack the shuttle.

Edited December 8, 2019 by Bear

[VUX]

You are wrong. I said that to stay was suicide well before I tried to poison him. When you challenged me on why I would go for the poison if I didn't know what it did, I said that I assumed I could know what it (dextrotoxin) was, at least insofar as it would be dangerous to ingest, and that other people brought up chemistry knowledge IC while playig non-chemists before. I did not claim that an engineer would know every chemical.

[sonicgotnuked]

I'll let someone delve into the logs.

[Garnascus]

So, i feel like all things considered this was entirely an IC issue. Typing does not make you immune to getting attacked. And considering the circumstances it seems reasonable to think that staying on the derelict would be suicide. 

[Garnascus]

Sorry, middle of december slammed me with a lot of OT at work and i just forgot about this. @VUX The ban is being expunged from your record.