Kaedwuff - Poor command play

[Bear]

BYOND Key: abigbear

Game ID: b4I-aJ6F

Player Byond Key/Character name: Kaedwuff as Himari Kitaru, Captain

Reason for complaint: Poor command play. As Captain, they decided to walk into a fully functioning security department after security had already arrested Adrien Major for attempted murder of the other Bartender who was cuffed to a chair and the Head of Security with a Molotov cocktail. Their only focus at the time after late joining was to get the arrested player out of the bridge. They were attempting to "interrogate" the prisoner mid the Warden trying to get them in their jumpsuit telling both the HoS and the Warden to shut up. And that we were to stop muddling with her "interrogation" (as captain) and that they believed attempted murder wasn't an appropriate charge. This occurred while multiple bombs were going off on station. They ignored the bombs and focused solely on Major attempting to remove them SILENTLY from the brig with no communication to the HoS (who had stated the prisoner was not leaving the brig) or the Warden. Per regulations the Captain cannot pardon prisoners. They were reminded. The brig was fully intact and there was absolutely zero cause for the captain to attempt to move a prisoner in this manner who had committed several violent assaults (including shooting someone, and again Molotov bombing a head of staff and someone under arrest). They then, instead of remedying the situation, decided they were going to take the route of suspension after they were informed the HoS was relaying their actions to central command and clearly questioning if their implant was faulty for such blatant disregard for regulations and focus on one prisoner over the burning station they were ignoring. Major then proceeded to blow his way out of the brig after murdering the warden with an esword and bombing his way out with C4 then was stopped. Lethally. The HoS (myself) was doing CPR on the dying prisoner as medical was on their way, however, the Captain decided it was more important to demand he come with her for suspension having received a response from CC than worrying about why a shoot out had just happened and two people were dead.

For Concise Points
-The Captain was overriding and impeding a fully functioning command team trying to take the job of the Warden, Detective, and HoS
-The only bombs had been detonated outside of Security or On an entirely differently Z-level. The Captain was saying this was enough to warrant them silently taking outside of security, literally jail breaking a prisoner
-The Captain was attempting to lawyer, change, and/or Pardon (though they denied it later) a prisoner who had already been arrested which is not within their ability to do on someone who had attempted to murder two people. 
-They completely ignored more dangerous situations such continued bombing to ensure their prisoner was relocated where they wanted and that the HoS was suspended instead of him handling active shooting in the main halls, and handling the bombings. They had almost no interaction with anyone else on station.

I would like to quote the wiki for Captain play

Quote

Leave Security matters to security, you don't (and shouldn't) need to step in on every criminal situation. You are above the Head of Security in terms of command, but you should defer security matters to him. Only step in if you think that a decision could endanger the station or crew.

Don't think that just because you're the Captain, that you can do anything you want. That's the absolute worst thing to do. You're there to make sure everyone else is doing their job, not to do it for them.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No it was an IC issue

Approximate Date/Time: 12/12/19 

Edited December 15, 2019 by Bear

[Kaed]

There is also an IR on this, so I'm not sure which if these are supposed focus on, but I'll respond here, too. I'll restate here what I did in the IR.

The only action my captain was attempting to do was question a prisoner about an incident.  At no point did I ever indicate I intended to pardon them, release them, or do any other action than ask them about the incident.  I had reason to believe from the wild difference in severity between the charge (attempted murder) and the action (throwing a molotov cocktail, a relatively painful and destructive but not generally murderous object easily available to bartenders) was resulting in excessive charges due to the HoS feeling personally attacked due to being caught in the crossfire.  His justification or the charge was the bartender he arrested saying 'he didn't want to take any chances' before throwing it, or something like that.

There was a bunch of other stuff going on that was frankly not my business. I don't run security, he does.  He should have been paying attention to that, not trying to block my questioning at every turn like a power insecure tyrant.

I also wished, as a general principle, to give this person who was being HuT, something constructive to do with their time, like plead their case to the captain, instead of sitting alone in the brig for the rest of the round.

Instead, what happened was Bear hovered over me constantly, apparently paranoid that I was somehow going to overturn the sentence despite being repeatedly told I would not pardon them.  I also did not 'silently take the prisoner away'.  In full view of the Warden, I informed the prisoner that due to there was a bomb threat and the constant interference of the HoS, I was going to escort him to my office to talk, but that he would have to be handcuffed due to the nature of his violent crime.  The HoS returned midway through this and dragged the prisoner back to the cell, ignoring my warnings about the bomb threat that he himself alerted me to and insistence that the prisoner was not being pardoned.

After all this, yes, I threatened him with suspension.  He was absolutely demanding that he have full control to micromanage every aspect of the brig, endangering a prisoner in what to me seems to be a borderline ooc attempt to prevent them having any opportunity to have fun or further impact in the round.  I even ahelped this to clarify, and was told that I can suspend people for refusing orders.  Even if I had freed the prisoner illegally, that does not give him an excuse to refuse to comply with the captain.  We have an actual IC rule in place that says captain's orders are absolute.  You cannot overturn them on suspicion that they are illegitimate, you are supposed to report the conduct after, or you undermine the chain of command.  You are a CCIA and should know this.

I believe I was fully in my rights to act this way.  I told him multiple times to stop hovering over me and trying to guard the prisoner from 'escape' via means of a loyalty implanted captain who had no intent to violate regulations. The captain is fully in rights to talk to a prisoner and then later report their results to central command, which is what I was attempting to do. It is clear that Bear suffers from issues with trying to control things too much, and is willing to ignore the chain of command if they feel their authority is being questioned by someone higher up.  Or perhaps they simply are unable to trust other whitelisted players to behave themselves and thus felt obligated to stop me illegally freeing a prisoner.

In a related matter, one of the security officers after the round (played by DanseMacabre) also said that they felt the HoS was micromanaging them too much and sucking some of the fun of playing their characters.

Bear, you need to chill.  That's the best I can say about this.  Other people exist that want to have fun in ways you might not sanction.  You can't direct the flow of the entire round all by yourself. You can't just cite suggestions on 'good captain behavior' as justification for breaking the chain of command.  If you had let things progress instead of trying to micromanage it, I would have simply questioned them and put them back in a cell after.  You are the one that caused this to escalate to suspension.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kaed

[Garnascus]

So, either this entire situation was IC or it was not. I am not having both an IR and a player complaint exist over it. 

1 hour ago, Bear said:

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No it was an IC issue

I promise i am not trying insult you or anything when i say this. If it was an IC issue why didnt you make an IR? 

I have sent a message to the head of CCIA about this situation. If the IR is valid then this complaint will be binned. If the IR is not valid i will move forward with this. 

[Bear]

6 minutes ago, Garnascus said:

So, either this entire situation was IC or it was not. I am not having both an IR and a player complaint exist over it. 

I promise i am not trying insult you or anything when i say this. If it was an IC issue why didnt you make an IR? 

It was all spurred from antag related activities which cannot be IR'd as it seemed very antag spurned.

I suppose I could have adminhelped it, but It didn't see it as breaking server rules but rather very poor command play especially when things like

 

Quote

[F] Himari Kitaru says, "Come on, you murderey boy."
[F] Himari Kitaru says, "This place is unsafe."
[F] Himari Kitaru says, "There is a bomb, apparently." [F] Adrien Major says, "Verse..."
[F] Himari Kitaru says, "You can't be left in here."
[F] Adrien Major says, "That's just what we need..."

were being thrown around. The captain in question late joined solely to focus on one prisoner who was jailed for attempted murder. It just seemed like very poor command play to me

But that was my take on this. It is in the end, ultimately your decision.

[addendum]
Just saw your edit, completely understandable

Edited December 15, 2019 by Bear

[Kaed]

21 minutes ago, Bear said:

I suppose I could have adminhelped it, but It didn't see it as breaking server rules but rather very poor command play especially when things like

 

were being thrown around. The captain in question late joined solely to focus on one prisoner who was jailed for attempted murder. It just seemed like very poor command play to me

But that was my take on this. It is in the end, ultimately your decision.
 

At the risk of belaboring this possibly soon to be binned thread, if you didn't think it was a rule violation, and your only motivation for this was OOCly thinking it was 'poor command play', then why did you violate the chain of command and refuse to follow orders? Even if I was a bad captain, you have zero authority to ignore my orders during a shift, which you did, repeatedly, and encouraged your team to do the same.

That's pretty terrible command play, imo.  You used OOC reasons to influence your behavior IC.  You're the one who violated regulations, in attempting to punish me for not playing in a way you liked.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kaed

[Bear]

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

I had reason to believe from the wild difference in severity between the charge (attempted murder) and the action (throwing a molotov cocktail, a relatively painful and destructive but not generally murderous object

Lighting two people on fire, stabbing them, and shooting them is very much indication for attempted murder. Molotov cock tails will kill peoples. Especially restrained people who cannot move. , this is a HRP server, we do not focus on mechanics.
 

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

undermine the chain of command.  You are a CCIA and should know this.

Yes. I also was debating this course of action which was without a doubt in my right to do so. I determined this would not be the best course for the round or the command staff, rather, waited for central to respond. Further more:
 

Quote

Captains are not above Corporate Regulations and can be arrested by Security for breaking them. However, this should only happen if active Heads of Staff agree in a unanimous decision to approve the arrest, or the arrest is ordered by Central Command. Captains should not be removed from their position in this way for anything but violations that would normally require holding until transfer. Lesser violations can and should be reported to Central Command, but are not generally severe enough to warrant this drastic action. If a Captain is arrested in this manner, an Acting Captain should be appointed immediately, and Central Command should be informed

Quote

"Aiding and abetting a criminal makes you an accomplice; you can be charged with the same crime as the person you aided and abetted."

i307 - Escaping From Holding Until Transfer

You wordlessly took a prisoner who was HuT from the brig with no proper communication to the security team after voicing your personal disagreement that firebombing two people was not in fact attempted murder. I could not know this, you did not communicate where you were taking the prisoner until after I witnessed you moving them from the brig which was full intact, and safe.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

In a related matter, one of the security officers after the round (played by DanseMacabre) also said that they felt the HoS was micromanaging them too much and sucking some of the fun of playing their characters.

My interactions with him consisted of assigning a cadet to follow for the shift.

 

 

1 hour ago, Kaed said:

Bear, you need to chill.  That's the best I can say about this.  Other people exist that want to have fun in ways you might not sanction.  You can't direct the flow of the entire round all by yourself. You can't just cite suggestions on 'good captain behavior' as justification for breaking the chain of command.  If you had let things progress instead of trying to micromanage it, I would have simply questioned them and put them back in a cell after.  You are the one that caused this to escalate to suspension.

Wasn't trying to. I am being chill don't worry I have no issues with you personally, just the unrealistic approach your captain took to white knight for someone who tried to kill. Ensure they had their traitor gear so they could escape as they did. The warden was going to be the only one interacting with them, but it's not fair to have a warden try and take down a captain jailbreaking a prisoner that is why I came to check back.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Bear

[Kaed]

17 minutes ago, Bear said:

You wordlessly took a prisoner who was HuT from the brig with no proper communication to the security team after voicing your personal disagreement that firebombing two people was not in fact attempted murder. I could not know this, you did not communicate where you were taking the prisoner until after I witnessed you moving them from the brig which was full intact, and safe.
 

Don't try and pull this.  Not only was the prisoner in question handcuffed during his 'escape', something you were fully aware of, because I watched you uncuff him once he was back in the brig, but both he and I indicated why he was being removed  (re: the bomb threat that you informed me about and my wish to question, not pardon him). You continued to ignore both of these and supercede your authority.  You were even there, by the logs you just linked, when I told him that he needed to leave the brig due to said bomb.

There was no reason to think that I was trying to free him owing to the explanation from both of us what was happening, so you could not have charged me with 'aiding a prisoner in escaping HuT'. You are using this to retroactively justify your actions.

No vote to relieve me was ever called.  The other active head cited to you that you are required to follow the captain's directive. You also ignored THEM to sit stubbornly on your butt awaiting confirmation from command.  And when you got it, all you did was complain that it didn't look like a real CCIA fax.

You cannot refuse orders on the assumption that they will be overturned by later actions or events.  You have to wait for these actions to occur before you can do so.

In summary, you acted exactly like the a bad command staff member you seem to think I am being, who thinks you can do anything you want and that the ends justify the means.  Sometimes, people just outrank you and you have to deal with it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by Kaed

[Bear]

1 minute ago, Kaed said:

Don't try and pull this.  Not only was the prisoner in question handcuffed during his 'escape', something you were fully aware of, because I watched you uncuff him once he was back in the brig, but both he and I indicated why he was being removed  (re: the bomb threat that you informed me about and my wish to question, not pardon him). You continued to ignore both of these and supercede your authority.  You were even there, by the logs you just linked, when I told him that he needed to leave the brig.

There was no reason to think that I was trying to free him owing to the explanation from both of us what was happening, so you could not have charged me with 'aiding a prisoner in escaping HuT'. You are using this to retroactively justify your actions.

No vote to relieve me was ever called.  The other active head cited to you that you are required to follow the captain's directive. You also ignored THEM to sit stubbornly on your butt awaiting confirmation from command.  And when you got it, all you did was complain that it didn't look like a real CCIA fax.

You cannot refuse orders on the assumption that they will be overturned by later actions or events.  You have to wait for this actions to occur before you can do so.

When you are saying what you are doing after being caught in the act of doing it, It makes you look: guilty and making excuses.

I was well within my rights to arrest you then and there. But I knew doing so would simply make a dramafest from hell and opted not too and waited for clarification whether or not the Captain should be removed and acting captain should be declared.

Furthermore, I held a meeting between the officers and had a Interim selected Ihoiriks or whatever the Unathi's name was and was ready to stand down. Once the fax came, it was in the middle of an active firefight between the holodeck and then a prisoner c4'ing his way out of the brig, and then doing CPR IC'ly delayed things a bit, but I was prepared to give you the demotion and stood staring at you for a while while you afk'd to write the IR.

[Garnascus]

Temporarily locking this. Currently discussing this on discord with lancer and cnaym. 

[Garnascus]

Ok so after a discussion involving CCIA and cnaym we are going to go ahead with this complaint. As this deals with command related play we will assign someone from the whitelist team to it shortly. It will be unlocked then. 

[MattAtlas]

@ReadThisNamePlz and I will look into this complaint.

[Kaed]

5 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

@ReadThisNamePlz and I will look into this complaint.

Thank you for your time.  As a much calmer summary now that the original frustration of that round has cooled, this is my take on my side of the issue.

My attempt to speak to the prisoner on HuT was due to several aspects.

First, I as a late joiner I wished to participate somewhat in the round's antags, and after some talk with the security department after arriving, I determined a way to do it was to approach someone being HuT with a sense of skepticism for objectiveness of our tajaran HoS, decision to charge him with attempted murder (specism is not barred by loyalty implants or roles, last I checked).  When I attempted to speak with the prisoner alone, however, the HoS seemed determined to intervene and block me from interacting with the prisoner with any sort of privacy.  I told him several times to leave, somewhat rudely after he became pushy.

What followed was one of the most obnoxious pissing contests I have ever had the misfortune of being involved it. Repeatedly I told the HoS to leave, expecting him to go back to doing his job instead of hovering over me and the prisoner, and every time he refused the orders, citing that I was not permitted to pardon the prisoner (which I told him every time I did not plan to do).  It became so frustrating that I felt like perhaps the player was not listening to me when I spoke to them, or perhaps was trying to play their character as deeply suspicious of this captain for some unfathomable reason.  We both begin digging in our heels, with me just wanting him to obey the chain of command and stop harassing me and the prisoner, and (judging from this thread) he trying to make sure that I did not violate regulations and free a prisoner.

It seems to me that the problem here is that Bear refused to extend any trust towards me as a whitelisted, loyalty implanted player that I would not violate regulations.  They repeatedly balked me and refused to follow legitimate orders under the assumption that my orders were leading to illegal actions.  At the end of the day, every one of their assertions of my illegal activities were based on speculation of my motives being malicious, and acting on upon that, as if I was an enemy. 

We have a very specific CCIA update that is supposed to prevent situations exactly like this.  It states that captains orders are final, and they are supposed to be trusted to have the company's best interests in mind.  Had I performed an illegal action and pardoned or freed the prisoner, then that should have been reported post-shift, not something he should have been actively defending against under the assumption I was lying to him.  There is, in fact, no regulation against speaking to a prisoner, or relocating them elsewhere, especially during a dangerous situation like a bomb threat.

Instead, Bear prevented me from engaging in roleplay with the prisoner in an extremely frustrating, proactively suspicious manner, violating the chain of command and seeking to undermine me constantly in the process. It was only after they did this repeatedly that I threatened them with suspension, and acted on that threat when they ignored me.

I would also like to profess that some of their actions that round were in my opinion unaccountably petulant, such as

-Telling me I have no right to tell him to shut up go away after becoming irritated with his behavior

-Refusing to obey an order to report for demotion until I ahelped someone to respond to his fax that he has to obey captain's orders and literally shoved it in his face, something he should have already known

-Retroactively justifying his behavior towards me by the inevitable breakout the prisoner made when left alone an unattended because I was not allowed to communicate with him or move him.

-Passive aggressively offering to let me demote him after the transfer shuttle was already on the way and the process was now irrelevant, despite spending over ten minutes spurning my authority when the round was still running.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Kaed

[Peppermint]

I played one of the officers in this round. I'm often very critical of HoS players both OOC and IC as there are so many questionable ones, but I really think Bear did very well. 

 

I'll avoid writing too much as other people have already summarised things, but here is my experience as one of said sec officers rather than as command.

- We had a hectic autotraitor round with many of us joining late to total chaos. We managed to get everything under control and things seemed fine.

- After a bunch of people had been arrested and charged, we got a sudden announcement from the Captain telling the HoS to stand down. At this point we were all incredibly confused given the fact that the captain had been a non-factor all round and not once communicated properly with the security team, so it came out of left field and most of us assumed antag-fuckery. Apparently not. During this time we dealt with a minor explosion at the brig. This was a mine in the maint tunnel by the armory, which didn't even fully vent. Engineering handled it very quickly and it was never a risk to anyone. 

- I'd like to point out that by demanding to question a prisoner in a very  clear case of attempted murder, the Captain was way overstepping and injecting herself into a department that neither needed nor wanted extra oversight. I can't believe they are actually defending wordlessly moving a dangerous prisoner without mentioning it over radio from an apparent threat that simply did not exist. The main brig was entirely fine and there was no danger to the prisoner - something we were actually discussing over radio, had they listened - whilst the warden was watching them constantly.

- We were brought in for a brief by the HoS and were told that the Captain was acting against regulations and the HoS would not be standing down until a fax came. That said, Bear was very clear that he would stand down should CC demand it, and set about appointing an interim. Not sure why the main body of Kaed's complaint said we didn't, as we very much did and were ready in the event he was asked to stand down.

- The round continued with a little more traitor stuff. Again, still NOTHING from the captain to the rest of sec. We were never given an explanation and no attempts at communication were made. As such, it wasn't really a contest of sec siding with one or the other, as they simply did not engage us in a meaningful manner. 

- Eventually Adrian did traitor things and brought an energy sword, killed the warden, and blew up the wall. Myself and the HoS responded and we ended up downing him, but he was in a bad way. This is when things got really wrong in regards to the captain imo. Here we were trying to support the medical team in keeping the prisoner and warden alive, both of us doing CPR whilst med patched them. Yet the entire time whilst these poor people are spraying blood and flatlining, the Captain stands behind us whining and complaining that nobody is following their orders, as well as generally blocking the hallway and getting in the way, seemingly not at all caring that two of her crew are now dead.

[Kaed]

42 minutes ago, Lemei said:

- I'd like to point out that by demanding to question a prisoner in a very  clear case of attempted murder, the Captain was way overstepping and injecting herself into a department that neither needed nor wanted extra oversight. I can't believe they are actually defending wordlessly moving a dangerous prisoner without mentioning it over radio from an apparent threat that simply did not exist. The main brig was entirely fine and there was no danger to the prisoner - something we were actually discussing over radio, had they listened - whilst the warden was watching them constantly.

People keep saying that there was no bomb threat, but the HoS clearly told me, in person, that I needed to clear out due to a bomb threat.  This will show up in the logs, and affected my behavior thereafter in the round.  I'm not sure if he was lying to me or later dismissed the bomb threat without informing me, but everyone is acting like I'm a maniac who made stuff up.  This is not the case.

I also was very transparent about my intent to move them from the brig.  I did not feel the need to further elaborate it in security radio, because no less than two people witnessed me attempting to move him, both the HoS and the Warden.  It was not 'wordless removal'.  The whole situation was roleplayed out between me and the prisoner in plain sight of the only two people who had relevant need to know what I was doing.

Additionally, whether my intervention was 'wanted or needed' does not make my presence and actions invalid.  The captain does not need the security team's permission to speak to prisoners.  To be perfectly honest, even if I had heard you say the bomb threat wasn't real, the security team has no authority to bar the captain from the brig for 'doing non-illegal stuff they don't like' or overturn their wish to safely transport a prisoner to their office to talk.  It does not violate any regulation, nor endanger the captain in any way that isn't metagame assumption they will break out of cuffs with their traitor gear.  This was purely a case of security territorialism gone rampantly bad.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Kaed

[Kaed]

  

1 hour ago, Lemei said:

- After a bunch of people had been arrested and charged, we got a sudden announcement from the Captain telling the HoS to stand down. At this point we were all incredibly confused given the fact that the captain had been a non-factor all round and not once communicated properly with the security team, so it came out of left field and most of us assumed antag-fuckery. Apparently not. During this time we dealt with a minor explosion at the brig. This was a mine in the maint tunnel by the armory, which didn't even fully vent. Engineering handled it very quickly and it was never a risk to anyone. 

- We were brought in for a brief by the HoS and were told that the Captain was acting against regulations and the HoS would not be standing down until a fax came. That said, Bear was very clear that he would stand down should CC demand it, and set about appointing an interim. Not sure why the main body of Kaed's complaint said we didn't, as we very much did and were ready in the event he was asked to stand down.

- The round continued with a little more traitor stuff. Again, still NOTHING from the captain to the rest of sec. We were never given an explanation and no attempts at communication were made. As such, it wasn't really a contest of sec siding with one or the other, as they simply did not engage us in a meaningful manner. 

-Here we were trying to support the medical team in keeping the prisoner and warden alive, both of us doing CPR whilst med patched them. Yet the entire time whilst these poor people are spraying blood and flatlining, the Captain stands behind us whining and complaining that nobody is following their orders, as well as generally blocking the hallway and getting in the way, seemingly not at all caring that two of her crew are now dead.

I will admit that part of this stuff is on me.  I largely did not communicate with the security team because my quarrel was specifically with the HoS, not with their team.  Most of our altercations were done in person, not over radio, and if they were over radio, it was on the command channel.  I was under the impression that the security team was siding with him largely from my experience of the warden almost crushing me when he slammed the brig blast doors down on the HoS's orders to bar me from entering communal to talk to the prisoner.  In my mind at the time, there was no point in addressing what I believed to be a hostile security clique.  I'm not saying that was the right way to handle it, but people don't always think rationally when they are angry, and I can get really steamed.

I should also point out by the time I suspended Bear's HoS, I had lost all patience with the round in general.  I had repeatedly given him directives as captain, which he had fragrantly disregarded, ignoring all reasons I gave him for them, in literal violation of the chain of command and captain authority CCIA regulations.  He refused to even show up for his demotion until I ahelped someone to send a fax legitimizing my orders.

I had zero care to give for the injured people, I admit it.  I arrived on the scene of the injuries on my way towards storming over to his office with fax on hand, and had very little context for the situation of the injured people.  I mostly just saw the object of my ire standing in the hallway and addressed him on the spot with somewhat of tunnel vision.  Once he told me he was trying to save people's lives, I stepped down and stopped bothering him while he did that, aware that my current state of temper could offer very little in the way of empathy roleplay.  I did not block the hallway, no one tried to get past me. If they had, I would have moved.

For about the billionth time this thread: This situation escalated the way it did because Bear deliberately ignored the chain of command and allowed himself the privilege to openly ignore my orders despite the captain having authority over him.  He did not follow proper procedure for dealing with captains, and as a result, I got more and more frustrated with him, and he found more and more excuses to treat me like a hostile entity, telling his security team I was violating regulations and to impede me.  If he had just buggered off when I told him to shut up and go away in the first place, all that would have happened was I would have talked to Adrian for a bit and the round would have moved on.  Instead, Bear jumped the gun and acted like he had pre-approval to ignore the captain's orders in expectation of a fax that never came authorizing it. This could have been settled in an IR instead of a prolonged pissing contest that resulted in everyone in security being confused and me all but blowing my top because Bear didn't follow IC rules that he damn well should know about, being a CCIA.

Edited December 16, 2019 by Kaed

[Peppermint]

Not trying to paint you in a bad light, that is just my own experience and perspective from the round. As you say, most was over command/in-person and I imagine things could have been handled better. However, I do empathise with both of you over why either party would be annoyed. I would just be careful making assumptions ^^. Leaves everyone feeling bitter.

I don't really feel I have anything else to add here, so will sneak on out whilst it's handled. Best of luck!

[MattAtlas]

Hello. We're (finally) done looking over this complaint. Admittedly, it was my fault, because I entirely forgot for a few days. Oh well.

From what we see, Kaed's intent seemed genuine here. We didn't really see any piece of dialogue where Kaed was hinting at wanting to release the prisoner. It's also not entirely against the rules for the Captain to step into a department, it's only a problem if it's excessive - that didn't really meet the standard here, although as usual, I urge Captains to not micromanage and let heads do their thing unless personal intervention is necessary.

Honestly, this can all be chalked up to miscommunication and intent not being clear. Communication is important as a head of staff, and this complaint reflects why. Many things were assumed to be done for bad reasons when the reasoning was actually pretty okay - just never communicated. Please, keep this in mind; talk and ask more.

[Kaed]

On 24/12/2019 at 15:05, MattAtlas said:

Hello. We're (finally) done looking over this complaint. Admittedly, it was my fault, because I entirely forgot for a few days. Oh well.

From what we see, Kaed's intent seemed genuine here. We didn't really see any piece of dialogue where Kaed was hinting at wanting to release the prisoner. It's also not entirely against the rules for the Captain to step into a department, it's only a problem if it's excessive - that didn't really meet the standard here, although as usual, I urge Captains to not micromanage and let heads do their thing unless personal intervention is necessary.

Honestly, this can all be chalked up to miscommunication and intent not being clear. Communication is important as a head of staff, and this complaint reflects why. Many things were assumed to be done for bad reasons when the reasoning was actually pretty okay - just never communicated. Please, keep this in mind; talk and ask more.

That's a reasonable point, but I'm pretty sure I communicated my intent on multiple occasions very clearly. 

The head of security just chose to ignore what I was saying and assume I had malicious intent. It's one thing to role-play a deeply suspicious and mistrustful character, it's another to be the person who should literally know more about regulations and chain of command than anyone else on the station, and disregard them entirely for a self-indulgent anti-authoritarian subplot.

The authority of the captain and Regulatory procedure is meaningless if people can choose to disregard it for convenience or because they don't like the Captain's play style, in-character or out of character. 

Most of the crew are generally free to act seditiously and face consequences for it, but it is especially infuriating to me when the head of security in particular is acting seditious. They are absolutely the one role on the station other than the captain who should be supporting the chain of command and proper procedure under any circumstances.

It should not have mattered if I poorly communicated my intent, they should not have been leaping to the conclusion that a captain was self antagging without compelling evidence and acting as a self-appointed opposing force to this theoretical corruption.

This could have been handled in a much more logical way, such as having an officer monitor my activities over a camera, or making an attempt to ask more about what I'm going to do, like MattAtlas said.

Instead, Bear focused on things that bothered them about my conduct on a OOC level, such as the facetious manner of speaking to the prisoner I had, or their wounded pride that I would dare intrude on security has jurisdiction even in the slightest fashion when their internal narrative says that that's not what captains are supposed to do, and use that as justification for why they didn't have to take my captain seriously. Why I was probably going to let the prisoner free if they got out of their vision range.

These aren't spurious accusations made up out of nowhere, these are both things that Bear has literally used to justify their stance in that round in this complaints thread.

I could keep ranting on about this, but constantly editing in more comments as they come to me is getting old. The point I'm trying to make is that this complaint thread was about my poor command conduct, and you just found that the worst thing I did was not communicate well.

I didn't repeatedly defy the chain of command, refuse orders, and incite the Security Department to defy the captain all the way up to the literal end of the round. Bear did that.

I sincerely hope did the staff will discuss with them about proper conduct.

Edited December 25, 2019 by Kaed