[Denied] Marlon Phoenix Command Whitelist

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

BYOND key:

Marlon Phoenix

Character names:

Erzs Liemz
Mo'zazi Zuhare
Uore Kethresh
Zeiluhak Ruul
Ezekuael Elez just deleted him

 

How long have you been playing on Aurora?:

Since 2015 I think. That's my earliest note so I'll go by that.

Why do you wish to be on the whitelist?:

I am a HoP main when possible. It is the best role to create roleplay and has me interact with all sorts of people. Command in general is really important and I want to have the ability to get people up and going with the power that comes with it.

Why did you come to Aurora?:

I don't even remember. I think I left some other server.

Have you read the Aurora wiki on the head roles and qualifications you plan on playing?:

Yes.

Have you received any administrative actions? And how serious were they?

Very recently I got a 24 hour ban for labeling a piece of paper as a fragmentation grenade and throwing it at the security window, after I had a few notes from 2017 and then in november of 2018 about this kind of joke. The ban automatically removed my command whitelist.  This was poor behavior and won't happen again. I got too silly with the prank, which was way too extreme and loud and not at all innocuous. My last command whitelist removal was around November if I remember right due to actions by my retired character Jawdat and a poorly timed poetry reading.

Please provide well articulated answers to the following questions in a paragraph each.

 

Give a definition of what you think roleplay is, and should be about:

I am playing a character in the universe and I need to have that character act like a reasonable person within the setting. A doctor, a dad, a mom, or a pirate. All of them have different motivations and reasons for being on the Aurora. I need to play each one with those motivations in mind so the characters decisions and stuff are all informed by that. The single dad paper pusher would not want to feel pain at all and be bad in combat, where the pirate might be more brash and be willing to take a slug right to the jaw.

What do you think the OOC purpose of a Head of Staff is, ingame?:

Command is where all the decisions are made. As a HoP main especially crew would come to me all the time asking if they could take on some project. my goal has been to say yes whenever possible to anything other characters ask of mine if they are not super dangerous or breaking rules/regulations. I stamp off on a lot of stuff. Proactively I can also orchestrate a lot of things. As HoP I have assembled poetry readings, mandatory pool parties, BBQs, talent shows, fashion contests, and all sorts of things. While these dont make sense for command jobs like HoS, which I dont play often, it still informs what I do. Even as a HoS I try to proliferate roleplay but its pretty hard in that job so i focus on hop.

What do you think the OOC responsibilities of Whitelisted players are to other players, and how would you strive to uphold them?:

The same thing as I said above. These two questions are very similar. As Command I need to make sure everyone has what they need to do whatever it is they are doing. I control the flow of the round in a really big way, almost as much as antagonists do. I should also be able to teach new players things about how to play. I like to do this as HoP. It is important that I keep them going to do their jobs and enjoy the round. As HoP I tended to field a lot of questions from new players because they would come to the HoP desk. I liked doing that.

Could you give us the gist of what is currently happening in Tau ceti and how it affected your character and their career?

Zuhare is a single father of 5 kids. He works in the Head of Personnel role. He is a dutiful Th'akh and lives in a mobile hover-home that migrates around the outskirts of Tau Ceti at least once a year. He's come from a lifetime of serving a guild in a middling upper management role. Tau Ceti has shown to be a place of culture shock to him. He is weirded out by the diversity of aliens and cultures but he also manifests the energy of a stereotypical Human Resources Officer who likes wholesome bonding exercises and morale boosters. The turmoil that sometimes happens between crew due to galactic events are things that he has to try and reconcile.

What roles do you plan on playing after the application is accepted?

HoP. It is the best job to delegate and interact with all sorts of different people. I might possibly make a captain some time in the future.
 

Characters you intend to use for command or have created for command. Include the job they will be taking.:

Mo'zazi Zuhare, Head of Personnel.

A human captain, probably, at some point. Probably not, but if I do I want it on the record.
 

How would you rate your own roleplaying?:

Sometimes I get excited and I get too silly in-character.

Do you understand your whitelist is not permanent, and may be stripped following continuous administrative action?

Yes.

Have you familiarize yourself with the wiki pages for the command roles?

Yes.

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[stevIII]

I've seen ruul a few times, and they'll forever stick in my mind as that annoying atmos tech that makes you think they're a wizard. I like when someone's character sticks in my mind, and I personally feel you'd be able to roleplay a command character very well. (Especially since you have experience) so, +1

[MattAtlas]

We removed your whitelist TWO TIMES. Why would we ever give you another command whitelist?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

My command whitelist was explicitly removed once, the jawdat incident. This latest strip was automatic due to a ban over silly behavior as an atmospheric technician. While it was silly behavior do you believe that it reflects poorly on my command play specifically? If i were banned due to logging during an ahelp i would also lose my command whitelist, and id have to defend my command play.

I'd say your fair if i misbehaved in command. But the punishment seems extreme since i have had no bad command play at all for quite some time. It would be as if it also stripped all of your species whitelists. can you tell me why i cant be trusted in command? And what i can do to improve command play?

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I'm in the precarious situation of accepting the ban but being very weirded out by its accompanying punishment of an indefinite command ban. I've made a concerted effort to improve my command play since I had it stripped, and I have no issues with my command play for an entire year. The whitelist strip feels extremely disconnected from the action and feels like a mandatory minimum does in reality. If we hold species whitelists to be important enough to be whitelisted, then shouldn't poor behavior that gets one whitelist stripped get them all stripped at the same time? That is the disconnect. No matter how honestly I answer these questions, no matter how much justification I provide for my command play or how honest I am about the failing I had, the fact I was given a day ban as an atmospheric technician and a soft permanent whitelist strip (if your view on it is replicated within the whitelist team) as I am now forever marked me as untrustworthy as a HoP and there's nothing I can do about it.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Azande]

Regardless of how much Jackboot and I disagree with one another - it is undeniable that he is an extremely capable roleplayer and active community member that knows the server's lore deeply. There is not much more you can ask for in a command whitelistee, and I think (again, as someone that Jackboot has blocked and has blocked Jackboot) that both of his whitelist removals were trash decisions and that he deserves to have one. Jackboot also dedicated the last what, five years of his life? All to help write, quality control and guide SS13's most consistent and well written server lore here on Aurora. 

Removing his whitelist over a simple Atmospheric Technician issue when I have seen numerous other Head Whitelistees recieve much lighter punishments for much more serious indiscretions makes this seem entirely like the issuing staff member simply had bad blood for Jackboot or a bone to pick with them.

Jackboot is and always will be an incredible community member, contributor to the lore, and enjoyable player - give this man his god damn whitelist back.

+1

Edited January 4, 2020 by Azande

[Scheveningen]

All whitelist strips are manual, not automatic. Pretty sure of that, anyway.

I'm not comfortable with you being whitelisted for command again, but this isn't to say it's a vote of no confidence from me. You have a method of problem solving similar to a hammer and anvil approach (i.e. sandwich whatever or whoever you're opposed to, and damn whoever gets in the way you getting what you want) while taking on a sassy and undiplomatic attitude should anyone criticize your methods, which makes you and your characters generally difficult if not impossible to deal with if they are in a position of power and influence. Your rhetoric leaves a lot to be desired, considering your propensity to intentionally box people into a corner to make them seem less convincing than you when participating in server policy/feature suggestion discussions. This gives the impression to me that you don't seem to care much for what people have to say unless they already agree with you. 

Broadly speaking the paper labelled "fragmentation grenade" being thrown at the security window is not an indictment of your command play in general, though it does indicate a lack of self-control to break character just to make an out-of-character reference joke. Using the rename-paper mechanic to do that is also not a good faith usage of renaming paper, it's an abuse of mechanics for a joke that should've stayed in LOOC as a funny haha that doesn't disrupt roleplay ICly. It breaks RP immersion and for someone less inexperienced in the game they'd look at the chat box and think you actually had a fragmentation grenade. 

I don't think the question should be "Why can't you be trusted with command whitelisting" but rather "Why should you be trusted with command whitelisting", as that's the same justification first-time appliers have to make, and re-apps should be under the same pretense tbh. What has changed, what will change and what are you going to be motivated to work on improving should you be whitelisted again? You're a good roleplayer when you want to be and nobody can or should dispute that, but can you be responsible for yourself?

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Can you give me examples of how my command characters, or any of my characters, have been difficult, sassy, and undiplomatic for you so I can better understand how to improve?

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Scheveningen]

This was some time ago, but there was a situation where Jawdat was putting people on blast over common comms regarding their verbal usage of comms. While it isn't wrong to call people on mistakes, there are wrong ways to do it, and contributing to a feedback loop of "gotchas" makes command look immature and ends up feeding into a lot of anti-fun interactions where everyone is calling each other shit and etc.

There was another situation where it was mercs/pirates that pretty much overtook the station through sheer force and numbers, and I as the HOS was trying to mitigate damage where possible rather than attempting to remove them from the station which would've been suicidal to me and the very few officers I had, and since the captain got themselves kidnapped there was no option for an assault on them that could've been done. Jawdat was quite the unconstructive critic and wasn't very subtle about how they thought the HOS was ineffective/a failure, and then attempted to negotiate surrender terms by themselves. When the captain finally was given back, Jawdat took full credit for it and rubbed it in.

Those are the sorts of things I don't want to see happen again, considering command shouldn't cause infighting or toxicity enough that it becomes really frustrating or toxic to deal with from an OOC standpoint. A character should not be so ICly overbearing that it comes to that.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't remember the first one so i cant comment on it. But i have dropped a lot of my hardass behavior as command since i developed my "say yes!" Command philosophy... i want to say.... late 2017??? Early 2018??? There has not been nor will there be any hard takes on the common channel in the ways i think you are describing.

The hos issue i remember sort of. I think that while your take on it is valid given your experiences, my characters take was also valid. He was critical, as he always is, of violent responses to a hostage situation/antags having taken over. He was arguing iirc that we needed to negotiate. What i remember distinctly was him breaking off from you to negotiate with the mercenaries for the release of the captain. Your hos, apparently frustrated, threw up their arms and told him to go nuts. 

The mercenaries did release the captain and he did rub it in, because he believed his method worked and yours didnt. 

I disagree with the expectation that he stop his strong disagreement with your HoS. Do you think that this is another way of asking me to not question the HoS' decisions? We have a lot of power as command players and we should not ask command to, icly, go along with something super against their morals.

All that he did provided rp and got more interactions from antagonists and the hostages. The smug behavior was ic and completely valid. This instance i would not change if i did it again, though Jawdat has been deleted and my current hop Zuhare is not as capricious and smug as Jawdat was.

(Jawdat was retired for reasons unrelated to my command play or administrative actions)

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

2 hours ago, Azande said:

both of his whitelist removals were trash decisions and that he deserves to have one.

The one with jawdat and the poetry reading was valid. The goal (occupy and keep in a safe place a bunch of crew) was severely hampered by the super crazy dissonance of the behavior in the secluded maintenance stage (funny and wholesome poetry slams) juxapositioned with screams of pain and agony on the radio. "Sheltering in place and keeping moral up" was done in a very bad way.

[Scheveningen]

21 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

I disagree with the expectation that he stop his strong disagreement with your HoS. Do you think that this is another way of asking me to not question the HoS' decisions? We have a lot of power as command players and we should not ask command to, icly, go along with something super against their morals.

That's not so much the issue, really - I don't personally mind if you disagree with my methods and I actually encourage people to approach me with suggestions or completely alternative solutions, but it's difficult to remain constructive when feedback to a bad plan is highly hostile, for instance. The overall lack of courtesy made the situation very frustrating to deal with, hence the "throwing arms up" response, because it was a serious situation that was undermined by bickering on both sides. It's difficult to muster motivation to want to be productive and strategize together when you're not sure if that's what the other side wants. It's also difficult to offer an olive branch/peace offering to mend the damage caused to overall trust between two people, too, because when someone already doesn't trust someone, one might be hesitant for any additional bad faith/deception. Oh, and, I only bring this situation up not because you broke any rules or anything, but rather the "how" of Jawdat handling that situation didn't seem like the best they could've done.

Anyway, to summarize my point the above, is the "feedback loop", in that there's no right solution and all possible decisions end up with a less than ideal outcome if two people aren't willing to trust each other enough to be courteous and considerate of what the other has to say. I learned a lot from that round in terms of how productive hostility towards fellow command members actually is, just based off how I ended up participating in it and what the overall loss/gain was from it. I think it's really important, for the most part to recognize that the "how" is really important, because a general impression of attitude seemed to have made a lot of difference in what resulted in that chaotic dramafest of a round. No actual offense intended, sometimes rounds are just like that when things don't go as you expect.

29 minutes ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

The mercenaries did release the captain and he did rub it in, because he believed his method worked and yours didnt. 

The problem with this was that there was a lot I still did that limited the options of the mercenaries to simply take whatever they wanted with no resistance. Whatever they wanted to do in terms of a morally incorrect action, they had to account for any possible reaction. While we couldn't guarantee the safety of the captain personally given his presence being locked in very deep into the vault, we did what we could to ensure the rest of the crew were in sufficient enough concentration and numbers that it'd be extremely difficult and risky for the mercenaries to harm others. So sure, it's fair to say we couldn't do very much for the captain, but it's unfair to criticize someone for factors outside of their control and claim they're doing a bad job because they aren't powerful enough.

It's one thing to be questioned, because it still offers opportunity for self-review and what can be done better on the fly. It's another thing to be criticized, which tends to be a bit more harsh for the sake of impact as some people just don't get it when you try to drop hints at them. It's a completely different thing to be ruthless in criticism, however, as it devalues the person you're criticizing and kinda makes them feel really bad. It makes sense for antagonists to do this for the sake of drama and killing their morale/willingness to keep going. A round can be very chaotic and dramatic, but I feel like it shouldn't be unfun, and unfortunately command has the greatest capacity to make or break a round based on how they handle leadership.

At the very least, what do you think could've been done better in that situation, even as you say it was still 'right' in your mind to do as you did? 

[BurgerBB]

1 hour ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Can you give me examples of how my command characters, or any of my characters, have been difficult, sassy, and undiplomatic for you so I can better understand how to improve?

I would like to interject here and say that Zuul is extremely hostile to Shaleez and fits all three of these words simply because they're a female. You did and said some pretty concerning shit OOCly and ICly that I've seen better behavior from Citadel from and you were "dealt with" administratively by voluntarily saying that there wouldn't be more interaction. I thought you were talking about just the sexism part but it turns out you decided to pull some shit that you'd think you'd see on Mean Girls.

This is just from one round. You've done it on another round when you jumped in a conversation I was having with someone else I was hoping to make new friends with, and dragged the person away while talking without any prompt or reason. Thankfully they came back after and they gave me their name. This isn't something I'd want to see someone do with a command whitelist. 

 

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't know what to do Burger. You called me a creepy sex pervert for interacting with you as a unathi with the micro-aggressions and now that I'm trying to avoid interacting with you it's also bad. I cannot do both, because I cannot treat Bar Shaleez any different from other female characters when I play conservative unathi.

This is part of unathi lore. I play more conservative Unathi to remain an example.

I don't want to talk to you because you're really targetting me but I will also not stop playing engineering to get away from you.

If I talk to Bar Shaleez I'm a creepy sex pervert. If I don't I'm Mean Girlling you. Both are actually in character, to be honest, because your character is a woman in a male dominated field within the culture of Unathi. Pick your flavor. I decided to go the route of your character being ignored (effectively ghosting you) so that you cant accuse me anymore of being a creepy sex pervert.

This behavior absolutely does not impact my command play.

Please do not dig up drama here.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Scheveningen]

I don't think there's really anything wrong with the image that was posted, Unathi have built-in sexism attitudes that go one way or another. Doesn't seem relevant to command play.

[BurgerBB]

6 minutes ago, Scheveningen said:

I don't think there's really anything wrong with the image that was posted, Unathi have built-in sexism attitudes that go one way or another. Doesn't seem relevant to command play.

It 100% is. I've never experienced behavior like this before on Aurora, and I have never seen them behave this way to anyone else, but this isn't about me, this is how they'd behave as command. Command are expected to solve problems and have a relatively calm state of mind when it comes to handling situations. Jackboot was told icly and oocly that their behavior wasn't appreciated, claimed that wasn't their problem and said they'd ignore me anyways, then proceed to play high school drama and go "I'm ignoring you. Can't you see I'm ignoring you?!" whenever I tried to get involved.

This isn't me bringing up drama, this is an actual tangible and reasonable concern I have about how they'd handle situations ICly and OOCly as command. I mean here they're taking me saying "I find your behavior creepy and sexist and I'd like you to please stop." and "I wish you'd stop telling me that you're ignoring me." as "You called me a creepy sex pervert for interacting with you as a unathi with the micro-aggressions and now that I'm trying to avoid interacting with you it's also bad. I cannot do both, because I cannot treat Bar Shaleez any different from other female characters when I play conservative unathi."

 

 

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

My Command unathi received the proper sensitivity training for the role and refer to women by their name or title.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If you want to work on Unathi lore not encouraging sexist behavior towards women please air these grievances in another thread. The fact that you have not received additional microaggressions in-character from Unathi men is not a product of my behavior being creepy, but a product of those characters playing Unathi who have had time to be exposed to and internalize the norms of gender egalitarianism within Tau Ceti before they ran into Bar Shaleez. Ruul, who is still a very recent immigrant, has not had this time.

Edited January 4, 2020 by Marlon Phoenix

[Peppermint]

Sorry! Totally wrong person, I got you confused for someone else. 

No opinion either way, thanks for pointing it out.

 

Edited January 5, 2020 by Lemei

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I have not played a medical intern in years. Do you mean the emergency physican?

[Peppermint]

..shit! Wrong person!

 

I'll edit my thingy accordingly, sorry ^^.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

LOL it's okay.

This, ah - "manifesto" has been co-opted by some really cringey people so I'll call it...

This GUIDE encapsulates my entire philosophy on command play.

 

[Boggle08]

20 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Can you give me examples of how my command characters, or any of my characters, have been difficult, sassy, and undiplomatic for you so I can better understand how to improve?

Sure thing, I can talk about Ruul.

I've had some good interactions with the character as Rakt, I actually think the two are similar enough to become friends. However, I wonder why command staff haven't tried to fire you yet. You've tried to get one of the boys in medical to honor duel you using wooden swords, shaved my head and someone else's in a hazing ritual, and the whole fragmentation paper thing (Though, I suppose that doesn't count too much ICly, since you just threw paper around). 

If I did any of that as Rakt, Any CE worth their white hardhat would've suspended/fired my ass or at least would've given me a severe talking to. You play Ruul at times like they don't give a shit about keeping their job or not, there isn't too much grounding the character right now.

That being said, I don't think having one insane character on your roster should disqualify you from a command whitelist for an entirely different character, who sounds a lot more reasonable and well rounded by the way you describe him.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

1 hour ago, Boggle08 said:

Sure thing, I can talk about Ruul.

I've had some good interactions with the character as Rakt, I actually think the two are similar enough to become friends. However, I wonder why command staff haven't tried to fire you yet. You've tried to get one of the boys in medical to honor duel you using wooden swords, shaved my head and someone else's in a hazing ritual, and the whole fragmentation paper thing (Though, I suppose that doesn't count too much ICly, since you just threw paper around). 

If I did any of that as Rakt, Any CE worth their white hardhat would've suspended/fired my ass or at least would've given me a severe talking to. You play Ruul at times like they don't give a shit about keeping their job or not, there isn't too much grounding the character right now.

That being said, I don't think having one insane character on your roster should disqualify you from a command whitelist for an entirely different character, who sounds a lot more reasonable and well rounded by the way you describe him.

That's fair. Ruul started a lot more tame, being bombastic and incredibly proud. The positive reception and some enabling from other people turned his behavior more into the prankster side which isn't going to continue. 

However he loves brawling so asking people to fight him will keep going on; consent will be the name of the game.  I didnt think it was any different than the holodecks thunderdome; wooden swords are more old fashioned (unathi) and they do almost no damage and they dramatically shatter, turning the fight more dramatic with pulled punching and wrestling.

 

Zuhare my hop is the polar opposite. He is a trailor park dad and very calm.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Give me a trial and ill blow all other command out of the water. Ill prove it.