pratepresidenten - poor behavior

[BurgerBB]

BYOND Key: BurgerBB

Staff BYOND Key: pratepresidenten

Game ID: Spans plenty.

Reason for complaint: Attitude problem.

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

I was given a lecture by skull a day ago when I tried appealing a 24 hour ban for making a joke about how the only reason why ninja explosions haven't been removed is because people want to make security suffer. They said I had an attitude problem and I shouldn't do that in important subforms, and I agree. But for some reason there exists a moderator who does this and doesn't seem to get the same repercussions as me despite being a phenomenally more important person and discussing more valuable things.

Consistently my interactions with prate have been nothing but negative and I think my first staff complaint was made because of him. I remember that I accidentally didn't "talk like a diona" for 2 sentences as I was stressed out. The Captain was demanding me several times to borg someone as well as fix 2 downed IPCs as a first time roboticist, and I was bwoinked and warned for it by prate. They didn't seem to listen or discuss or care that it was a mistake due to stress and wiki juggling. Their response was to not play roboticist anymore and closed the ticket. The loredev said that was bullshit and the warning was removed.

Then you have the incident where I pointed out bad player behavior when they asked to rub my character's tummy or some shit in LOOC, and prate chimed in saying that it wasn't creepy behavior, but it was cute. I told them that I didn't feel comfortable about it and they didn't seem to give a fuck and said that everything was subjective. I had to make a staff complaint about that, and it was resolved in my favor with garnacus saying that prate shouldn't have done that. Prate then, extremely begrudgingly, said some stupid shit and didn't appear to take the ruling seriously.

Then I made another complaint where I tried appealing a part of a warning to me where I accidentally shot sec with lethal turrets once because I thought they were part of another turret controller in the core. Any other admin would actually understand this but prate said that I had issues as synth and thought that deserved a warning because "I played synth long enough to know how turrets work". I made a staff complaint trying to appeal it, but I was threatened by them with "Maybe it was wrong of me to warn you for this. Maybe I should've given you a synth ban instead." which is just really fucking wrong. Imagine if a player made a staff complaint about a decision against then, and for appealing it, they were given a harsher punishment instead of the original punishment by the admin who you're reporting.

Given the standards that players are given on the forums as well as in game, I do not think that they are consistent with how pratepresidenten actually behaves. They have a serious attitude problem in official channels, make snide remarks to rulings, and are generally extremely unsympathetic when it comes to dealing with ahelps compared to other admins.

[Pratepresidenten]

So here we are again.

4 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

They didn't seem to listen or discuss or care that it was a mistake due to stress and wiki juggling. Their response was to not play roboticist anymore and closed the ticket. The loredev said that was bullshit and the warning was removed.

I was enforcing the template set by whoever made it when we talked here. And I recall you saying something along the lines of "I dont care if it breaks rules, if I can talk normally for convenience, I will.". It was brought up with the loredevs at some point and the policy was changed to allow diona to have the option to speak normally. With the new policy implemented shortly after, your warning was naturally expunged, as it was no longer valid. Not sure why you're angling it like I just slammed down a "bullshit warning" on you just to have it overturned by someone more directly in charge.

4 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

Then you have the incident where I pointed out bad player behavior when they asked to rub my character's tummy or some shit in LOOC, and prate chimed in saying that it wasn't creepy behavior, but it was cute. I told them that I didn't feel comfortable about it and they didn't seem to give a fuck and said that everything was subjective. I had to make a staff complaint about that, and it was resolved in my favor with garnacus saying that prate shouldn't have done that. Prate then, extremely begrudgingly, said some stupid shit and didn't appear to take the ruling seriously.

As you've so masterfully created art in mspaint to get a point across, maybe if you actually "Fucking read what I wrote", you would have saved us both a lot of heartache. As the saying goes: "Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one". I just find it sad that your opinion somehow trumps mine, and Im a despicable person for having one. If you took a moment to read through the screenshots you post, you would not only see that I mimicked what you said (Your opinion, my opinion), and I acknowledged that its fine for you to feel uncomfortable with remarks, but even so, your view of an issue does not make it an universal absolute.

Your opinion is not greater than anyone elses. I have just as much right as you to have one, and I never once said that your opinion or feelings were shit and should be ignored because MY opinion was better. You should look at the definition I pulled and ask yourself if something that causes you unpleasant fear or unease, causes everyone else fear and unease. The short answer is "No".

Its also real classy of you to just label things I say as "Stupid shit", and that I dont give a fuck about anything. Thanks for the personal attacks.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

I made a staff complaint trying to appeal it, but I was threatened by them with "Maybe it was wrong of me to warn you for this. Maybe I should've given you a synth ban instead." which is just really fucking wrong. Imagine if a player made a staff complaint about a decision against then, and for appealing it, they were given a harsher punishment instead of the original punishment by the admin who you're reporting.

As I said in the other complaint, the turrets were a mistake, but a noteworthy mistake. Even if this didnt happen, punishment was still due. With your synth history I had a choice between a warning and a synthban. I opted in for a warning as to not remove your ability to play synths. If I had chosen a synthban, a note would have been placed ontop regardless. So I saw it okay to make a combo-warning, as to remind you not to meme and to be mindful of which controller controls what.

As for your last bit there, you have not recieved any harsher punishment as you closed the thread. But it is not uncommon for someone to report something only for it to be uncovered that the reporting party was actually in the wrong, and punishment is handed out to them instead.

5 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

Given the standards that players are given on the forums as well as in game, I do not think that they are consistent with how pratepresidenten actually behaves. They have a serious attitude problem in official channels, make snide remarks to rulings, and are generally extremely unsympathetic when it comes to dealing with ahelps compared to other admins.

I dont see how you could possibly have any insight in how I handle tickets with other people, or their satisfaction with my interactions. I want you to back up this claim with proof.

[BurgerBB]

You started your post with "Here we go again."

You somehow took me highlighting some pretty questionable quotes to make it crystal clear what the issue is as "As you've so masterfully created art in mspaint to get a point across"

You still don't realise how messed up it is to tell someone who is clearly uncomfortable with weird sexual remarks that it's actually just cute and you, as an administrator, see no issue with it.

You still believe that there isn't an issue in making those "tummy rubs are not creepy, they're cute" comments to a person who is clearly uncomfortable with other users making those comments to their character.

You said it was "real classy" of me to label your mocking sarcastic comments that were intentionally backhanded as "stupid shit" and somehow turned that into a personal attack. I have no issue with you, I have issue with the words that you have said.

 

This has honestly provided me with enough insight for me to go "This isn't okay." because this isn't okay. This is the sort of thing that has gotten me warnings and bans before so I know what I'm talking about here. Full disclaimer, I don't have issues with you personally because I don't know who you are, I just issues with your conduct especially when the same conduct has gotten in me trouble before.

 

 

Edited January 18, 2020 by BurgerBB

[Pratepresidenten]

4 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

You still don't realise how messed up it is to tell someone who is clearly uncomfortable with weird sexual remarks that it's actually just cute and you, as an administrator, see no issue with it.

You still dont realize what an opinion is.

[BurgerBB]

4 minutes ago, Pratepresidenten said:

You still dont realize what an opinion is.

You're allowed to have opinions.

You're allowed to have right opinions.

You're allowed to have wrong opinions.

But as a response to me going "I don't really appreciate users making creepy comments towards my characters in OOC and LOOC." and as an admin going "Yeah but I find it cute. Why shouldn't a player say your character is cute? You have opinions, and I have mine."

That's just not okay for an admin to say. I thought this was resolved in the previous complaint but it seems that you don't understand this or care to put effort into understanding it. This isn't me going "You called me bro, did you just assume my gender?" this is me going "I am actually uncomfortable with other players trying to sexualize characters in a fucking atmos simulator."

 

[Pratepresidenten]

9 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

You're allowed to have opinions.

You're allowed to have right opinions.

You're allowed to have wrong opinions.

Again, this shows that your opinion is right, and mine is wrong. The only thing I put down in deadchat is that "I find this cute". It was the only remark I made. I made no claims that anyone's feelings and opinions were right or wrong.

7 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

I thought this was resolved in the previous complaint but it seems that you don't understand this or care to put effort into understanding it.

So what is the issue here exactly. Because to me it feels like you're making a complaint because you dont like the way I talk to you.

If Im to be perfectly honest, I give you my deadpan mode because my openness, happiness and cheerful attitude is wasted on you, as you've shown.

I express my opinion in a matter, I get a staff complaint. I enforce the rules, I get a staff complaint. Why would I put in extra when no matter what I do, its never good enough?

Im just so tired of having to defend my every word and action.

[BurgerBB]

Okay. The issue isn't you opinion or whether or not you're right, it's how and when and where you said it, and as an administrator, you saying it. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend that someone will be uncomfortable if you make sexual advances towards their character. It absolutely fucking shouldn't be. I'm telling you as a player I am not comfortable with players making sexual advances towards my character but for some reason you believe that it matters very little because you somehow made it a matter of opinions and that you personally find the remarks cute.

 

 

This has nothing to do with opinions. If someone receives an unwanted sexual remark you should never ever say that "Well, I find it cute. I don't see the issue." as an administrator.  I personally do not trust staff to deal with this sort of thing if this is the sort of mindset they have.

[ReadThisNamePlz]

5 minutes ago, BurgerBB said:

Okay. The issue isn't you opinion or whether or not you're right, it's how and when and where you said it, and as an administrator, you saying it. It shouldn't be hard to comprehend that someone will be uncomfortable if you make sexual advances towards their character. It absolutely fucking shouldn't be. I'm telling you as a player I am not comfortable with players making sexual advances towards my character but for some reason you believe that it matters very little because you somehow made it a matter of opinions and that you personally find the remarks cute.

 

 

This has nothing to do with opinions. If someone receives an unwanted sexual remark you should never ever say that "Well, I find it cute. I don't see the issue." as an administrator.  I personally do not trust staff to deal with this sort of thing if this is the sort of mindset they have.

Also, if you find that to be creepy and sexual, you need to open a ticket instead of talk in deadchat about it.

Hey, I'm not handling this complaint as of now, but I want to clarify something from an outside pov.

Regarding the "tummy rubs" it may be creepy to you, but others might not find it creepy. You can label it creepy for yourself, but since it is an opinion and not factual, you cannot label it creepy for all.
I believe that is what @Pratepresidenten meant by that.

Edited January 18, 2020 by ReadThisNamePlz

[BurgerBB]

17 minutes ago, ReadThisNamePlz said:

Hey, I'm not handling this complaint as of now, but I want to clarify something from an outside pov.

Regarding the "tummy rubs" it may be creepy to you, but others might not find it creepy. You can label it creepy for yourself, but since it is an opinion and not factual, you cannot label it creepy for all.
I believe that is what @Pratepresidenten meant by that.

I really don't want to compare this to actual sexual harassment in the real world, but a comment argument that those who frequently engage in sexual remarks in the workplace use the excuse that "they mean well" and think that getting offended over an employee saying to you "Hey, beautiful, do you want to hang out sometime?" at work is opinion because "others might find it endearing."

 

The point is that there is a time and a place. They said it not at the correct time nor the correct place. Spectators, especially people who are in charge of handling bad incidents, shouldn't use this same logic. That is the issue I have here.

Edited January 18, 2020 by BurgerBB

[Juani2400]

Hello.

I will be handling this complaint. However, since there is still an open front on the now-retracted complaint, it will be slightly delayed until a resolution has been reached by the handling staff before starting the process on this one. That should happen in the span of a week, at most, probably. 

Until then, you can continue to discuss the points raised in this thread.

[BurgerBB]

32 minutes ago, Juani2400 said:

Hello.

I will be handling this complaint. However, since there is still an open front on the now-retracted complaint, it will be slightly delayed until a resolution has been reached by the handling staff before starting the process on this one. That should happen in the span of a week, at most, probably. 

Until then, you can continue to discuss the points raised in this thread.

Which complaint? I decided that my previous staff complaint wasn't worth my time fighting over. This is a much bigger issue.

[Juani2400]

7 hours ago, BurgerBB said:

Which complaint? I decided that my previous staff complaint wasn't worth my time fighting over. This is a much bigger issue.

Sorry, I was referring to the ban request that was recently archived. Staff is still working on it despite the OP requesting its withdrawal, as several other people raised various points. 

Since it may affect how this complaint is handled, we will wait until it's been resolved and then start the process with this one. 

[BurgerBB]

1 minute ago, Juani2400 said:

Sorry, I was referring to the ban request that was recently archived. Staff is still working on it despite the OP requesting its withdrawal, as several other people raised various points. 

Since it may affect how this complaint is handled, we will wait until it's been resolved and then start the process with this one. 

This is the first time I'm hearing this. You're telling me that a permaban is possible based on some of the people who posted about other incidents that weren't the OP, despite that actually being against the rules.

[Juani2400]

This is really not the place to argue this matter, as neither I or the admin subject of the complaint have any relation whatsoever with the thread or the handling staff.

You are free to talk about this with the headmins for a solution, or with the handling staff (which are Abo and Cnaym). 

[Juani2400]

As per recent events, this complaint will be locked and archived. This will be reviewed privately, still.