Staff complaint - WitchBells

[TheDilShawn]

BYOND Key: TheDilShawn

Staff BYOND Key: WitchBells

Game ID: b7o-dnBF

Reason for complaint: "headed a siege on medical with another cultist with very little provocation/interaction beforehand because they needed bodies. did not accept blame and continued to blame the other cultist for being at fault instead."

I believe that being "equally at fault" to the juggernaut who did almost everything wrong and against what I said, is not fair. As stated, I did not accept blame and said the other one was at fault. Why? Well let me describe what happen:

I got summoned again at the chapel, took at belt from security that had a tazer and handcuffs and then told the person that summoned me that I would bring him a living person and showed him the taser.

I walked up to the main hall and I found a jugg/wraith going into medical. I asked if there was anyone alive they said they didn't know. I told him that I wanted to capture one alive and we started breaking into medical and then medical saw us break in and ran back. We got inside, The jugg/wraith went foward and I stayed behind looking at a dead body trying to see if I could shard it. I took my time making a shard and trying it on the dead body, which I couldn't shard.

When I go further inside I see one medical staff shooting a laser rifle at it and still armed so I pull out my taser to pacify him, not knowing if they were hit by the jugg or not. The tajara drops the gun, I do nothing and he goes into an office as the jugg chases him, making me split off without access. I give up on the chase.

I stood behind looking at corpses in medical to see if I could shard them, which I could not. After some time the jugg returns to the office with an beat up medical staff which I took NO PART OR CHOICE in their fight. The jugg starts breaking a path open for me, I also begin breaking the window on my side. Then, another tajaran medical staff comes and tries to drag the almost dead one. The jugg proceeds to start beating him too, which again I had NO PART OR CHOICE IN and by the time I caught up to the fight that ended up at the end of a hall the tajara was almost finished aswell. I approached and he clawed me so I hit him with a sword.

By then, the juggernaut had done so much damage to the two ALONE in the fight that the only thing I could do was make them both into wraiths. I start cutting up the last person down but stop myself to then ask in LOOC'd if they had anything against being turned into juggernauts and none of them said anything so I maimed them and and turned them into wraiths.

 

Now I ask, how am I at fault or even equally at fault for the juggernaut who basicly solo'd the two to defeat when I clearly stated before we broke in that I wanted to capture one alive.

How am I at fault for low interaction when I didn't get a chance to do any interaction, I shot a taser at an armed medical staff shooting around and the medical staff ran away while I did nothing to stop them. I even gave up on breaking the window to chase him. I will say hands down the only part where I had interaction was when the jugg had them both already beat up and the last one was on their last legs dying too.

As for a part of the warning, nowhere in any logs did I say or explain that I wanted to capture one to add more bodies. Although I did state I was going to bring one alive to the person that summoned me, I would not choose what would happen. Could be a sacrifice, could be converted, could be just RP, could be sharded, could be anything but I would not be the one making the choice.

Nowhere until the very end did I have the chance to roleplay or have much interaction with medical staff due to what the jugg did by without me. Also I didn't have any intention of actually harming medical staff if I could not capture them (so I would've allowed them to run like I did later in the round) and only ended up striking and sharding the two at the end because it was already too late for them due to what the jugg did.

 

Evidence/logs/etc:

Where I ask them if they are not okay with being used as jugg.

 

Additional remarks: As for an example of what I actually do when going into medical, I went into medical later in the round where there was a medical staff there. I tried to roleplay some fear into that medical staff, only doing one or two grabs on him before he ran away. I didn't attack him or anything.

Unless going to medical itself is against the rules as antag to roleplay and do anything with, I do not see this as a valid note to have.

The staff member dismissed the things I pointed out because of the past I have and told me that I should've told him to stop, when I gave out arguements as to why I am not at fault they just said they wouldn't come down to arguements and pointed me to the forums if I had issues with this.

(Also for the record I didn't have much chance to tell them to stop because they were off screen for almost the entire time appart from when I used the taser and when they were both beat up at the end which would be too late since they were going to die.)

As for the other cultist if they are reading this. I am not angry at you or trying to throw you under the bus for my sake. I don't know if you misunderstood my intentions or not, I'm just against being blamed for what you did.

Thank you for reading.

-TheDilShawn

Edited May 30, 2020 by TheDilShawn
correcting staff member for medical member

[witchbells]

I was told by a player in medical that the medical bay was broken open and those inside slaughtered by a cultist and a juggernaut. At no point did the player specify that one of you was more violent than the other, and in fact, your name was the first I was given. The fact that you two did this to medical with little to no provocation leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth. You have a history of playing over-aggressively and have been noted on it in the past, and similarly, I've noticed that you're developing a pattern of pushing blame away from yourself, whether it be by blaming other players or blaming lack of context for incidents in question, and I'm seeing it all throughout this post. At no point do you accept the possibility you've made a mistake.

 

4 hours ago, TheDilShawn said:

Nowhere until the very end did I have the chance to roleplay or have much interaction with medical staff due to what the jugg did by without me. Also I didn't have any intention of actually harming medical staff if I could not capture them (so I would've allowed them to run like I did later in the round) and only ended up striking and sharding the two at the end because it was already too late for them due to what the jugg did.

 

You have power over the juggernaut. If the juggernaut was disobeying you, you could have ahelped and stopped the issue right there, but you chose not to.

 

I'm happy to give any more information to the staff member who oversees this.

[TheDilShawn]

7 hours ago, witchbells said:

I was told by a player in medical that the medical bay was broken open and those inside slaughtered by a cultist and a juggernaut. At no point did the player specify that one of you was more violent than the other, and in fact, your name was the first I was given. The fact that you two did this to medical with little to no provocation leaves a very, very bad taste in my mouth. You have a history of playing over-aggressively and have been noted on it in the past, and similarly, I've noticed that you're developing a pattern of pushing blame away from yourself, whether it be by blaming other players or blaming lack of context for incidents in question, and I'm seeing it all throughout this post. At no point do you accept the possibility you've made a mistake.

 

 

You have power over the juggernaut. If the juggernaut was disobeying you, you could have ahelped and stopped the issue right there, but you chose not to.

 

I'm happy to give any more information to the staff member who oversees this.

If people didn't specify who was more agressive how do you know what Im at fault for instead of blanket over both of us of something I didn't do. The only time I harmed someone was already out of medical when the jugg already did enough damage to have them eventually die on their own.

Furthermore, I was a ghost summon, I dont know how to react or if I have power of the juggs. 

Of course Im making it a point all over the post that I literally had no part in masacring people inside medical appart from just breaking a door open. 

The jugg was off my screen for most of the time. I have no idea what happened inside with just him or what happened outside with just him. The only time I was present was when I tased one medical staff that was shooting a rifle and they ran away with the jugg chasing them, and then at the very end when the jugg had beat the two already without me. 

How am I responsible for this? How am I supposed to know how to perfectly react to stuff Im not doing and I have no control over? How am I supposed to know what type of stuff happened for a tajaran staff to shoot laser rifles? How am I supposed to stop the jugg when they go away in a hallway and I dont know what is happening until he comes back with his unconscious body? 

Im not responsible for people exagerating that the TWO of us ran in and starting harming people inside when I literally didnt harm anyone in medical and didnt even see anyone appart from the one armed medical staff.

Yes Im saying Im not responsible alot because for some reason you keep dismissing what ever I say because of my past and what other people said that just wasnt true! I'm literally saying that I took no part in almost aaaaanything that was stated. Slaughtering people inside? I didnt even see anyone alive inside appart from the armed tajara (after breaking in) . I didnt even fight anyone inside medical appart from the taser when I saw the tajara shooting. Also Im a ghost summon not a cultist.

I don't know what started the fight. 

I dont know what the jugg inside medical until I came in late and the tajara was shooting lasers but he had no reason to attack people over what I said because when we were entering I said I wanted one alive. So if he attacked people, it was by his choice without me even being present. 

I don't know what the jugg did when he left the office with the tajara, nor did I have anything to do with beating him unconscious. 

Ive never seen such unfair treatment 

[TheDilShawn]

Also how does this work? I HAVE to ahelp to not be included in something I dont have much part in and that happened mostly off of my screen? 

I have to tell someone to stop when Im no longer with them and not knowing what is happening? 

[ShesTrying]

Hi, I was one of the medics. The jugg barely touched me, only enough to make me fall to the ground, and when I fell, you went to town on me with a cult sword until I died.

I didn't see you ask if I wanted to be a jugg in looc, but I was long gone from your sword attacks regardless, as you can see the arterial spraying out of me in the logs. 

I hadn't spoken, seen, or heard from the cult before the two of you stormed medical and killed us all. It left a really bad taste in my mouth, and it still does.

I may have had a chance to survive if you hadn't gone to town on me with a sword once I was already on the ground. You made sure I died, when I hadn't even interacted with you. It was super shitty, in my opinion.

[TheDilShawn]

1 hour ago, ShesTrying said:

Hi, I was one of the medics. The jugg barely touched me, only enough to make me fall to the ground, and when I fell, you went to town on me with a cult sword until I died.

I didn't see you ask if I wanted to be a jugg in looc, but I was long gone from your sword attacks regardless, as you can see the arterial spraying out of me in the logs. 

I hadn't spoken, seen, or heard from the cult before the two of you stormed medical and killed us all. It left a really bad taste in my mouth, and it still does.

I may have had a chance to survive if you hadn't gone to town on me with a sword once I was already on the ground. You made sure I died, when I hadn't even interacted with you. It was super shitty, in my opinion.

Hey, you looked pretty beat up but then again I was not present for most of the fight to see what the jugg did to you and I based your damage over how slow you were moving and how little hits you needed to go down and also you had some blood on your sprite indicating damage.

I wanted to make you a jugg because I thought it was too late for you and I wanted to give you something to do appart from just dying. I don't quite have much ability to see how injured you were but I did see you get hit a fair ammount of times by the jugg when I arrived late. I think you even scratched me first (unsure), dunno why you tried to play hero to try and drag the other medical staff from a jugg but I don't mind admitting with this new information that I can be at fault for killing you, even if I only wanted to kill you because I thought you were going to die and wanted to just get you back to life. Also was never told about your damage until now.

I finish again pointing out that if I just wanted to go around killing medical staff playing agressively I would've also attacked the doctor that was there when I returned to medbay instead of just roleplaying with him trying to get him in some sort of fear RP instead of having someone else start fights I didn't even want in the first place.

I didn't know what you did to the jugg or what the jugg did to you appart from when I saw you already in a fight when I come pretty late. This goes for both medical staff (appart when I saw you try and drag the body which I also didn't even see you try to communicate there but then again you were mostly off screen for me).

Edited May 30, 2020 by TheDilShawn
"Also was never told about your damage until now"

[Garnascus]

This timeline of events here is really hard to pin down. Im gonna need some extra questions answered.

On 29/05/2020 at 21:39, TheDilShawn said:

I got summoned again at the chapel, took at belt from security that had a tazer and handcuffs and then told the person that summoned me that I would bring him a living person and showed him the taser.

Ok, so you where a cult zombie. Your existence is extremely limited. 

On 29/05/2020 at 21:39, TheDilShawn said:

I walked up to the main hall and I found a jugg/wraith going into medical. I asked if there was anyone alive they said they didn't know. I told him that I wanted to capture one alive and we started breaking into medical and then medical saw us break in and ran back. We got inside, The jugg/wraith went foward and I stayed behind looking at a dead body trying to see if I could shard it. I took my time making a shard and trying it on the dead body, which I couldn't shard.

If all of this is true it sounds like a reasonable premise to go into medical.

On 29/05/2020 at 21:39, TheDilShawn said:

When I go further inside I see one medical staff shooting a laser rifle at it and still armed so I pull out my taser to pacify him, not knowing if they were hit by the jugg or not. The tajara drops the gun, I do nothing and he goes into an office as the jugg chases him, making me split off without access. I give up on the chase.

I am extremely interested in wtf a medical staff member is doing with a laser rifle. Again so far i do not really see any problems here. Until this point you had not attacked anyone lethally right? What i assume one of the problems here is the juggernaut was shot at with a laser and assumed from this point on "ok time to go ham".

On 29/05/2020 at 21:39, TheDilShawn said:

I stood behind looking at corpses in medical to see if I could shard them, which I could not. After some time the jugg returns to the office with an beat up medical staff which I took NO PART OR CHOICE in their fight. The jugg starts breaking a path open for me, I also begin breaking the window on my side. Then, another tajaran medical staff comes and tries to drag the almost dead one. The jugg proceeds to start beating him too, which again I had NO PART OR CHOICE IN and by the time I caught up to the fight that ended up at the end of a hall the tajara was almost finished aswell. I approached and he clawed me so I hit him with a sword.

Yeah this seems to inform my earlier hypothesis. 

On 30/05/2020 at 15:09, ShesTrying said:

Hi, I was one of the medics. The jugg barely touched me, only enough to make me fall to the ground, and when I fell, you went to town on me with a cult sword until I died.

So, i dont know WHEN this happened but when someone tries to shard a wounded person it will not work if they are "not dead enough". If this is the case it will give you a message something along the lines of "Hey this guy aint dead enough". Now we all know sometimes it can be REALLY hard at a glance to tell how wounded or dead someone is in this game so what i reckon happened is he just assumed you where a goner and tried to tip you over the edge a bit. Unfortunately you where not actually that dead and in the context of the juggy's crazy escapade i can understand the mistake.

I mean i really have a hard time here assigning agency equally here. I understand cult contrstucts need to listen to the cultists but unless i am missing something here it seems like dil never said "Go kick the shit out of that guy". Its certainly implied that if you shoot a laser at someone they are gonna come after you. Which is what the juggy did. 

On 30/05/2020 at 02:18, witchbells said:

I'm happy to give any more information to the staff member who oversees this.

Is anything that i quoted from dil's post not true?

[TheDilShawn]

My response to the Olivia shows I was wrong on the accuracy of my guess on how much she was injured. I only knew this after her post pointing it out. 

If there are things that was wrong in the original post it would be that surprisingly the jugg did a low ammount of damage even though still knocked her around, prompting me to think she was going to die but actually wasn't. 

[witchbells]

On 14/06/2020 at 04:01, Garnascus said:

Is anything that i quoted from dil's post not true?

It's all correct from what I can tell, yes.

[DatSamTho]

Heya, I was the jugg jugg that round. What happened from my perspective, was that you told me to "Get them" Which, well- a juggernaut has very little in the ways of. . . non-lethal take downs. I attempted to capture them alive anyways, going for the feet, or just dragging them. And after I knocked them down, you went ham on them, saying to "maim them". (Though I might be remembering some of the details wrong, since this was some time ago, and not a very memorable round for me, other than how bad it was)

[TheDilShawn]

You mightve misinterpeted me then as in the "get them" part. I never told you to attack anyone, until the situation at the end, just that we were capturing one alive. 

As you said, you didn't have much way of non lethal takedowns so shouldve been a dead giveaway that me saying "I want to capture one alive" would mean they wouldnt be harmed since they could bleed out along the way or have broken or fractured bones. 

Much less how much you harmed the first, although they did fire a laser rifle at you, I don't know what you did to to spark that and he had lost the rifle well before you did any severe damage. 

With the information provided by Olivia I agree it was a wrong assumption on my part over what I said you did to the second person, although I still disagree with the attack overall. On both.. since I did bring a taser to literally not harm anyone inside. 

For the part where I told you to maim them, as stated previously I thought both were going to die so I wanted to turn them into juggs and neither had protested against it in LOOC when asked if they had something against it by the time I told you to start maiming. Which was the only order I have given you since the "I want to capture a person alive" was pretty much me stating what my intentions were what to do and I never told you to go capture anyone for me. 

I also assumed you shared my opinion over what you did since you were apologizing to me alot at the end before I told you to maim them.You pretty much went without me on these cases appart from when there was a laser rifle being fired and the maiming at the end. 

 

[Garnascus]

Gonna change to the note to reflect what you did to olivia's character as its the opinion of myself and borya that its the biggest problem here. Everything else is ok. The note from the juggy is also gonna be expunged. Cult constructs have essentially no agency. They have to follow the cult orders. 

[Garnascus]

Done, locking and archiving.