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Staff Complaint - ShesTrying

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Posted (edited)

BYOND Key: SueTheCake

Staff BYOND Key: ShesTrying

Game ID:  b78-cUzY

Reason for complaint: 

I'd like to start off by saying this is in no way intended to be a shot at ShesTrying or a complaint seeking punitive action against them. They were nothing but cordial to me in ahelps and I have no issue with them or how they personally conducted themselves, rather I have issue with the ruling I was given.

I latejoined into a merc round as a visitor, not knowing it was a merc round, and arrived to a station in chaos. An officer, Rhea Haze, was brought into medical and Captain Avery Dawkins put out a request for people with a medical background to try and help, which I did. I arrived, was cleared for operation and tried to fix Haze to the best of my abilities. At the time, there was but a nurse and no surgeon or other specialized medical staff alive to my knowledge. The only surgeon I saw, Wu, arrived later, and I immediately stopped treating the patient to defer to their expertise.

It was then that I was bwoinked and questioned about performing surgery. Ultimately, the ruling was made that because my character is employed as a CSI, I am not able to touch living people. I vehemently disagree with this ruling for the reasons I will soon lay out, but I would like to say I distinctly remember this being discussed before and permitted in emergency situations, which it was. Ultimately, I have no proof to substantiate this claim and nothing in my notes, so I don't expect my word to be taken at face value. However, I would like to point out:

1) My character is more than qualified.

I put specific effort into my character's education to make them as realistic as possible, all things considered.

Formal Education History:
 - 2443 - GED Equivalent from NanoTrasen Corporate Academy, Biesel
 - 2443 - TCBSL Certification from NanoTrasen Corporate Academy, Biesel
 - 2446 - Certification from NanoTrasen Security Academy (Cadetship)
 - 2450 - Bachelor's Degree in Forensic Science, Minor in Anatomy from District 5 Community College, Biesel
 - 2458 - Doctorate of Medicine Degree from University of Mendell City, Biesel

My character attended medical school with the express purpose of finding work as a medical examiner. It isn't the forensic science that is her specialization, it is forensic pathology, which is the investigation into the cause of death in criminal cases post-mortem. In order to actually be qualified to perform autopsies or even work as a medical examiner, you are required to have a doctorate of medicine degree. Eight years of education and a residency, which the company paid partly for, is the end result. This is why the character remains with NanoTrasen instead of working for, you know, Mendell PD or something - school debt. Lots of it. Crippling debt. This character is intended to be a Zhan who tried very hard to break free of the stigma of being a Zhan (unga brain) but in the process is basically going to be slaving away for NT forever because of student debt.

A doctorate of medicine degree with an anatomy specialization is sufficient to perform surgery. Surgeons require a doctorate of medicine and then pursue their surgery specialization during their residency - again, something most medical examiners are required to do. This is not unrealistic or not founded in reality.

2) It was not my intention to deprive medical of roleplay.

I do not play my character as a medical character because it is not what they're intended for. Their career is in forensic pathology but they are trained, qualified, and performed a hands-on residency that would allow them to know surgery. I don't waltz into medical to steal patients from the characters there - it was an emergency situation, someone was dying, and the medical team had no surgeons. When Mako Wu arrived eventually and we were discussing what had happened, they told me flat out if I had not taken the steps I did, Haze would have died and they'd have nothing to do but to bag them as a result. 

Medical characters who are surgeons, to my knowledge, don't require any kind of specialization. They're surgeons. Cardiovascular surgeon or neurosurgeon are not alt-titles of the surgeon job. I think it's a little bit of a double standard, here, to take my character who is fundamentally qualified to perform surgery and say no given the context of an emergency situation with no medical staff actually on shift to stop someone from dying. And even then, in treating Haze, I didn't do it perfectly, and deferred to a surgeon when they arrived.

I'd like to reiterate, it is not my intention and never was to deprive medical of roleplay. No qualified personnel were available.

EDIT: I was informed that Mako Wu was, in fact, on station, but trying to yank a bomb out of someone on the same time so there were still no qualified personnel available. I, personally, did not know this at the time.

Ultimately, I just want to be told flat out whether this is okay or not. I don't personally see the logic here, given I have written the employment records to accurately reflect these qualifications, and I don't see the logic behind 'you're educated to do it, but a CSI so you can't'. I've laid out my reasoning for doing this to begin with, and considering how much leeway is given to antags who are janitors that know how to build bombs and hack the AI all of a sudden it seems to be an intensely confusing double-standard here that characters with education and history grounded in real qualifications are being shut down when they attempt to contribute to the narrative without the big red R for Roleplayer by their sprite.

Here are the full employment records, for reference.



Name: Ana Justine  Roh'hi'tin
Date of Birth: August 27th, 2425
Species: Tajara
Ethnicity: Zhan-Khazan
Gender: Female
Citizenship: People's Republic of Adhomai
Clearance Level: Staff (Security, Medical)
Employed As: Crime Scene Investigator
Height: 195.58 cm (6'5")
Weight: 108.862 kg (240 lb)
Eye Color: Green
Skin/Body Color: Black Fur
Hair Color: Black Fur
Distinguishing Features: Scar over left eye.

General Notes:
 - Ana Justine Roh'hi'tin M.D. is a licensed medical doctor, and as such is listed in the public directory.


 - From the July the 2nd, 2446 to December the 26th, 2452, Ana Justine Roh'hi'tin served aboard the NMS Hermes, under the company's Kuenoi branch in the Frontier Alliance. The remote mining station was populated mostly by miners and their families and a dedicated security team was employed to provide peacekeeping as well as investigate domestic and corporate infractions.

 - Following an incident of corporate espionage and two fatalities, Ana Roh'hi'tin was transferred off-site and began an internship at the NSS Agrippa, assisting resident Medical Examiner Dr. Sun Woo-Yung with processing fatalities as a result of workplace hazards and other violations. Once her internship was completed, she returned to Tau Ceti space to continue serving as a member of NanoTrasen's security team.

 - Up until the completion of the Aurora I, Ana Roh'hi'tin served aboard the NSS Exodus, and then on the Aurora I, and finally the Aurora II.

Formal Education History:
 - 2443 - GED Equivalent from NanoTrasen Corporate Academy, Biesel
 - 2443 - TCBSL Certification from NanoTrasen Corporate Academy, Biesel
 - 2446 - Certification from NanoTrasen Security Academy (Cadetship)
 - 2450 - Bachelor's Degree in Forensic Science, Minor in Anatomy from District 5 Community College, Biesel
 - 2458 - Doctorate of Medicine Degree from University of Mendell City, Biesel

Pre-NanoTrasen Employment History:
 - N/A

NanoTrasen Employment History:
 - 2446-2447: Security Cadet
 - 2447 - 2451: Security Officer (Part Time)
 - 2451 - 2455: Assistant Forensics Specialist (Part Time)
 - 2458 - 2461: Internship, NSS Agrippa Medical Examiner's Office
 - 2461 onward: Forensic Technician (Full Time)

Trained in the following:
 - Firearms Training
 - Forensics Training (NT Certified)
 - EVA License
 - Certified in the practice of Forensic Pathology
 - Doctorate of Medicine, specialty Anatomy
 - Class D Exosuit Pilot License

Edited by Susan

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Bottom line, you shouldn't be doing surgery on live people as a CSI. Especially things like brain and lung surgery. It's just not in your field, and takes many years of specialized schooling. That's all I really have to say for this one.

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I've addressed these sort of points in the main post, and I disagree with this take. 

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Okay so, while Im sure your intentions were good and you wanted to save the person, what shestrying said is pretty much the decision here.

You dont operate on live people as a CSI, even if you have a medical degree required for your job as a forensic pathologist.

If you are drafted to aid in medical during an emergency, you can stick people with healing chemicals and attempt to help this way until someone that can deal with whatever surgery is needed comes along to relieve you.


I will be closing this in about a day unless there are other concerns.

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I don't particularly agree with this decision; what you've said is basically 'even if you have a degree and the education necessary, you are pigeonholed by what your ID says', and considering 'your character has gone to medical school' is the basis for other administrative action taken despite the fact this ruling means 'going to medical school' has no substantive effect, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

Ultimately, if that's the ruling, that's the ruling. I'm not going to drag it out. You can close it; I just won't like it.

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I am back with a little revised decision @Susan.

CSIs will be allowed to function and do what a general physician can, seeing you have the proper education/background to justify it. This means administering chemicals, working medical machinery, doing bone, tendon and arterial repairs, and pulling bullets out of people. No organ repair of any kind. You should only do surgeries if there is absolutely noone else that can during the emergency where you've been drafted to help.

I hope this revision sits a little better with you and other CSIs.

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I find this more palatable. I have no qualms with this revised decision.

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