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UnknownMurder

Staff Complaint - WitchBells

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BYOND Key: UnknownMurder

Staff BYOND Key: @witchbells

Game ID: b8b-arAn

Reason for complaint:

First of all, I take the accusation by another player of "lying to an admin staff" very seriously, and I do not appreciate the authoritarian tone that was delivered to me. If it was "Do you mind sending me screenshot of this" would have been great but "I want screencaps of the incident" does not sit well with me. If it is in my notes, I will contest it (even to the slightest hint) to be stricken off from my notes. I have been ordered to show my screenshots to WitchBell in Discord though I have already done so for other moderation team in different rounds. I have given the screenshots of what I have witnessed. Hands on the neck gives the impression of beginning to choke and discoloration on Lyhia Kyousa. After I have left the bar to call for Security. Chief Medical Arrives. One of the unathi pulls Lyhia out of the bar. Chief Medical Officer treats to them. If this was not noted in my notes, I expect something to be done about the serious accusation.  Serious accusation such as this can be enough have my head whitelist revoked or worse permanently banned from the server.
 

Second of all, I dislike being observed under a magnifying glass and being told a different story of what I just said and also told to call off the arrest or lighten the the arrest. I proceeded to lighten the arrest regardless. I stated facts that had happened in front of my eyes and ears. To this day, I still believe I made the right call that Kizaresi should be jailed for attempted murder. I was also told by Har'lon that they were released on a bonds of security being too busy with Merchant situation to worry about unathi. After the bar situation, I decided to try to push for an evacuation shuttle called due to: People attacking each other. Hivebots. Merchant killing an officer. Understaffed Security. After the ahelp, I spoke with Chief Medical Officer, Chief Engineer. They were confused with the intentions at first and somewhat agreed with me that it able to be ruled as an attempted murder. I was told to change my RP and was told and shrugged off that it was bad Command Play even though the shift was falling apart and no further explanation was provided than just a twisted story of "you glanced" when I in fact did not say that I glanced. 

 

Lastly, this holds little weight but worthy to be mentioned. The WitchBells had to mention this statement and vented their hatred into OOC as if it was because of our conversation in our tickets with my defense screenshots. 

WitchBells: what's up everypony i hated that round so fucking much

 

Evidence/logs/etc:

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  image.thumb.png.7a0f851a7dce6e56d832dbbb7a8087eb.png 

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image.thumb.png.311b85d4c37e41b05d4e509bcd6e87ff.png

image.thumb.png.a706eb10128e03b1b134698fcfe90bdb.png

 

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Additional remarks:

It is to my personal belief that WitchBells is jumping conclusion before trying to ask me anything. For example, "[04:07:08] witchbells -> that doesn't fly, unknown" as if they know the whole story even though I had my RP reasons. I also emphasize that I do not appreciate the authoritarian tone. I would also like to know what WitchBells noted down on my notes.

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I understand why you might have found the tone objectionable, but I was dealing with multiple tickets for at the time for two separate issues, and opted to use a more directed approach.

 

You were being accused of lying to administration - by the person who was ahelping. It is not shown in the note because thankfully, you weren't. It simply seemed like you got the wrong impression of a situation. Here's the note I left you.

a_note.jpg

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Thank you for your honesty regarding accused of lying and you have acknowledged the tone to be objectionable. I will say that this sort of accusation should be a double-edge sword and not taken lightly. I will leave this to the staffs taking this complaint to decide with no longer discuss this unless you wish to talk more about it. 

The full situation that I have been informed by people in radio communications and in-person and investigating on the spot. An unathi grabbing Lyhia's neck while she is unconscious with Kizaresi his their unathis around. I was being told by Har'lon re-confirming the situation regarding with murder of Tabor that Kizaresi and his friend is responsible for it, I asked them if they are very sure it was Kizaresi. Har'lon said yes to being positively sure it was Kizaresi. This had built up suspiciousness and kept in the back of my head to be extremely careful and report to Security anything Kizaresi does. Kizaresi was released from Security and I presume was told not to get in any trouble while understaffed Security goes to handle the merchant trying to escape of being suspected of a murder. Which in fact which takes me back to the first sentence regarding the full situation. I investigate on the spot, I see Kizaresi on Lyhia's neck unconscious. I call IRU-Brick to apprehend the suspect. Lyhia is treated. I head to my office and start contemplating on calling Emergency Shuttle which was slightly delayed by Command meeting on topic "can we salvage this?" and my ticket delaying the final confirmation orders of Evac Shuttle or ERT. To reiterate, I spoke with the Command about Lyhia being unconscious with Kizaresi's seemingly trying to choke Lyhia. It is my personal belief that this whole situation is IC reason and warrants an Incident Report. I have made decisions on my perspective. This calls for an IC investigation it was done on an Extended Round and to fully determine if it was actually Attempted Murder or an Assault. 

In fact, a good question to ask the crew would be. Why was even the station going bonkers, Security and Command were trying to handle several situations and yet people wants to brawl with each other?

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I understand completely how such an incident can come off from a first look, and how such chaos on the station influenced the decision, even with the supporting testimony, but such convictions are not to be made lightly. I'd like to expand on this a bit.

On 17/07/2020 at 18:02, UnknownMurder said:

It is my personal belief that this whole situation is IC reason and warrants an Incident Report. I have made decisions on my perspective. This calls for an IC investigation it was done on an Extended Round and to fully determine if it was actually Attempted Murder or an Assault.

 

Yes and yes.

This is the crux of the issue I'm trying to get at here. An attempted murder/murder conviction and requires a much more nuanced approach from both an IC and an OOC perspective. Such a conviction needs to be handled tactfully and investigated thoroughly before dropping the metaphorical hammer, and this is what I attempted to convey to you through adminhelps.

 

The incident you're talking about was handled ICly, in round, and was indeed completely insane but I don't find it incredibly relevant to this issue here.

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Myself and @MattAtlas will be handling this complaint. Give us a couple days to go through everything.

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Posted (edited)

 

There are two reasoning I can contest the ruling. If these two reasoning and screenshots I posted are ineffective to @ShesTrying, @MattAtlas, and @witchbells, then I don't know what to tell you because I am very very sure it was an IC issue from my side with the information I had and by just looking at the unathi's actions right before my eyes.

 

Quote

 I understand completely how such an incident can come off from a first look, and how such chaos on the station influenced the decision, even with the supporting testimony, but such convictions are not to be made lightly. I'd like to expand on this a bit.... An attempted murder/murder conviction and requires a much more nuanced approach from both an IC and an OOC perspective. 

If you actually understood completely with all accounts (especially the permit incident) for it, I wouldn't be having this note or a had a sudden force to change course of action. This would have been IC issue for CCIA to decide. I acknowledge your statement from OOC perspective that it may not been enough. These three factors weren't the only factors. I've been getting investigation result from Harl'on about what is it that the Kizaresi was doing. I think you would receive better direct information from what Harl'on has informed me or @ShesTrying may take a dive into the server logs to know what is it Harl'on has been

saying in Security Comms that I keep asking Harl'on to confirm this information over and over. Command were hesitant with me at first and agreed with me afterward that it was Kizaresi who was a likely suspect for murder of Tabor because of the investigation I received from Har'lon. Har'lon was a Security Officer investigating into this before IRU-Brick had arrived. UNLESS, the investigation that I received were a definite biased security report from Har'lon. I would ask for an immediate expunge of this note and staff complaint closed down. And someone should speak to that player. The information I had summed and kept to the back of my head were directly from Har'lon whom I asked to confirm on whether is Kizaresi is responsible for this and he kept saying "YES" and even when I told him about a different person is telling me a different information Har'lon went "I AM VERY SURE. I WAS JUST THERE WHEN I HEARD THEM SPEAK IN SINTA TONGUES, THESE TWO UNATHIS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR MURDER OF TABOR!" (and yes, this is a pass-the-blame). After Lyhia was choked, I was told by Har'lon "WELL, WE SHOULD HAVE KEPT THEM IN THE BRIG BUT NOOOO I HAD TO GO DEAL WITH MERCHANT SO I RELEASED THEM UNDER BONDS" logic.

Quote

This is the crux of the issue I'm trying to get at here. An attempted murder/murder conviction and requires a much more nuanced approach from both an IC and an OOC perspective. Such a conviction needs to be handled tactfully and investigated thoroughly before dropping the metaphorical hammer, and this is what I attempted to convey to you through adminhelps.

Some people were arrested/killed by Security because they just happen to be in the wrong place at some time and were let off because of their short investigation and based on first look. I'll make two scenarios here. I'll let you decide what is the best course of action Because really even if the person was an antag and we have a global awareness of specific antag on the station, Security would just be hunting them down in a similar nature. I do not understand the reasoning to why you think choking a person is not attempted murder. Hopefully, you can explain to me more about this. 

SCENARIO A: You begin your shift. Everything is fine and dandy until Engineer A creates a phoron pike and hangs it on their back for everyone to see. Someone calls Security. Security is called. Engineer A insists it being for self defense. Security arrests Engineer A. Engineer A is sent to the brig and serves their time. Warden sends them a permit afterward. Engineer A walks around the hallway and finds the person who called them out to Security. Engineer A chokes a person for revenge, the person goes unconscious from lack of oxygen. Crew calls. Security arrives and saves the person in time, arrests Engineer A and gives them a charge. The question to you is... What charge would this be? Would it be assault or would it be attempted murder? 

SCENARIO B: You begin your shift. Everything is fine and dandy until you hear Scientist A is bombing the station. Security is called. Scientist A is on the run. Scientist A starts spouting some danger stuff on radio comms. Scientist A chokes a person they came across, the person goes unconscious from lack of oxygen. Security arrives, spots them, and saves the person in time, arrests Scientist A and gives them a charge. The question to you is... What charge would this be? Would it be assault or would it be attempted murder aside from manhunt and possible terrorism charge. 

Spoiler
 
Spoiler

I did a quick Google from a reliable source. Continuing to choke can kill a person. Choking is always serious. 

When one person puts hands around the neck of another and squeezes, that is strangulation [in this context, the I refer to choking a person as strangulating a person]. This pressure can cause loss of consciousness in 5 to 10 seconds, and it can cause death in a few minutes.

      

9 hours ago, witchbells said:

The incident you're talking about was handled ICly, in round, and was indeed completely insane but I don't find it incredibly relevant to this issue here.

Command decision was delayed because of the accusation and the "authoritarian" tone to coerce me going deep into my logs to show I wasn't lying to a staff member. But, sure. I'll consider it as irrelevant. I do not care for this topic. We can put this toss it in #trashcan.

Edited by UnknownMurder

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So, sorry about the delay. I had trouble finding the motivation to do this, or anything at all really, in the past few weeks.

We have come to the conclusion that the note is reasonable. Based on what you saw, it is reasonable to arrest somebody for questioning or a low charge, but definitely not murder or attempted murder, unless you are SURE about it. We dont really see that kind of surefire evidence here.

The tone however is questionable and she will be talked to about this.

Closing in 24 hours.

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To be honest, I forgot about this staff complaint. I understand. My true intentions for this staff complaint was to be very sure with the staffs on basis that I was not lying to a staff member and prove my points. I am somewhat okay with the result of this staff complaint. I have a question before I back down. Is flinging "That player is lying to you, staffs." to be taken in serious consideration? How does the staff team handle admin helps with "They're lying to you!" This brings up my suspicions on anyone can say that to anyone and make it harder for staffs to trust a person suspected of lying to a staff. 

tl;dr simplified question: What do you do if a player accuses another player of lying to a staff? What happens to the two of them?

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21 hours ago, UnknownMurder said:

What do you do if a player accuses another player of lying to a staff? What happens to the two of them?

These complaints are not factored into the decision unless there is very solid proof.

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