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Character complaint - Yari Vorimankov


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BYOND Key: Karhast

Game ID: b8z-b1W6

Player Byond Key/Character name: - Yari Vorimankov

Staff involved: None. Due to a mishap, none of the staff was able to be reached this round

Reason for complaint: Powergaming

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, it genuinely wasn't possible to.

Approximate Date/Time: 16:00 CEST, 10th of august, 2020

The gist of my complaint is in the reason I gave - the HoS did everything they OOCly could to squash our cult, and I don't think they should have gone as far as they did. I'll write down the events as I saw them unfold below.

We had a cult going on, and it was one involving mostly new cult players. We did nothing loud, at all, until the barkeep tried(and failed) to use some talismans to kidnap some people. This went entirely wrong for him, nobody got hurt except the barkeep himself, and he was then brigged for a good long time. It took us a while, but we got him free with some runes. Huzzah. Yay.

This is the point where I say we should make a base, so we head for a large room in maintenance. We make the barkeep into an artificer, we watch him build some stuff, and..

The corporate reporter walks in on us(why is he even up in maint?!) before running right off. I try to cut him up a bit, but cult swords are hilariously unrobust, so he runs off.. At which point I dump my sword and go about my own business, feigning innocence, and thinking I'll get away with a fine at most while nothing can be proven.

What I get is a team of officers, headed by the HoS, all decked out in riot gear + lethals. I get searched entirely, my book gets taken away(WHAT AN INTERESTING PLOY, MR HOS, IT'S JUST A BOOK), my PDA is nabbed, and I get told to fuck off. That's neat. That's lovely.

So, to recap - one new blood grabbed at some people and got summarily magdumped with rubbers. A reporter got attacked with the very weakest of antag swords, could prove nothing, and got away just fine. Because of this, the HoS saw fit to deck his people out in full riot gear and lethal weaponry, because... Proportionality.

By this point, the round is pretty much fucked. I even get searched an additional time, out of the very blue, despite having done absolutely nothing. Even the officer agreed that it was stupid, as evidenced by the first of my two screenshots posted below. We get next to no recruits at all because nobody ever does, it's cult, everything falls flat on its face, and the HoS' player decides to pretend that carbines aren't lethal weapons because 'they have a stun setting'. That's nice. People might almost fall for that.

I don't have too much else to say. The antag rules make it exceedingly clear that antagonists are around to drive a story - the story we got was one where the HoS smelled blood and did everything they could to go Cult Man Bad. The gamemode is already exceedingly harsh on the cultists due to its weak tools, and I genuinely do think that stamping it out as was done is extremely poor form.

 

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Im not sure where you got the information that cult swords are unrobust as they're probably one of the hardest hitting things around with a high knockdown and dismemberment chance. And coupled with the cult robes you're almost unstoppable.

But Ill start from where my shift started.
 

I spawn from cryo, head to security and geared up before aimlessly walking around the station. The barkeep eventually speaks on radio making a statement that unionizing was gonna be a thing in the bar, I told him no unionizing and then I left for the bridge.

I was minding my own business at the bridge when the APC blew out, alongside reportedly a fair deal of other APCs. I see you were the only engineer, so yknow, you were on my internal shitlist for POSSIBLY fucking shit up, so I have the AI task you with prioritizing restoring command power. I didnt have it watch you, I wasnt suspicious of you because for all I know it could just have been some system shittery. The AI even reported that smes was not set up, so I just let it go because my toon does not know engineering.

Im initially alone, but over time I get a few officers. At some point one of them calls for backup at the bar, where your fellow cultee had kidnapped someone and assaulted one of my officers.

They get processed, puts up a fight, slips their cuffs, some scuffle ensues. Prior to this the officer presents me with his findings, cultbook and some runic paper. I flip through the book, its filled with illegible scribbles, so I just assume the guy is just a lunatic wanting to unionize despite it not really being a legitimate thing to do. I stopped the officer from putting him in solitary because that is not proper, even if the guy was HuT for kidnapping whoever it was they kidnapped. He keeps ranting on the radio in all caps to be freed, so Im going to revoke his radio rights and it ends with a fight in the bathroom where he tries to slip me and he is unsuccessful in beating me to a pulp with a crowbar. I put him back in the cell, gets his PDA and then he just disappears infront of me.

So naturally I put an order out to find and re-secure him. At some point I check his PDA, and on it, is an open conversation between the two of you. Talking about the kidnapped not being still and something something. Then the call comes in that some miner is trying to breach the station with a sword. So naturally, I dont want my officers killed, so I give them riot gear, two carbines and a shotgun, all non-lethals. No lethal .45s were given out, no laser rifles. Only non-lethal. Then it was suggested we wait until the miner came to us so there wouldnt be a fight where the station could vent more, and I agreed to this because I didnt wanna send out a hitsquad to nail this guy.

So I continued pulling on this PDA thread, where I met you in medical after telling the AI to locate you. My officers responded to the AIs call aswell. I wanted to search you, and so I did. Found the same book as the bartender had, filled with incomprehensible scribbles, so I checked out your PDA, where you had sent messages to others regarding unionizing, so they were put up on the investigative list. I confiscated your PDA and book and let you go.

I went on to have my officers track and search Evangelien Watari at the bar, which yielded nothing, then reports came in that the sword-swinging miner was roaring about near command swinging his sword. So my available officers dealt with that aswell. The miner went down without much fight, and they were just gonna be charged for contraband, and possibly vandalism if I could get proper evidence that they did smash shit up.

Somewhere inbetween the medical encounter with you and the miner being detained, the reporter you attacked came to security to report his findings, what he wrote etc etc, and I was under the impression that he was attacked recently, and he named you as the aggressor. So naturally I had you searched, again. Then security is attacked by a wraith, that afks or something after its attack. The reporter had also pointed to the maint where he saw you run after attacking them, so when transfer was underway, I was gonna go check if it had merit, and it did. The place was a fucking bloodbath riddled with gibs, swords, constructs and remains. And before I was gonna leave, who do I spot there, just walking about, claiming to love the "Aesthetics"? You. You were just waddling about knee-deep in blood and guts without a care in the world. You whom have been a topic of investigation numeral times. My other officers respond to my sickened outrage via the AI and you're promptly detained and taken to transfer.

When reaching the shuttle, the AI reports more sword combatants coming for the shuttle, and my officers respond whilst I try as a last minute ditch to question you where the vanished inmate was, because it was painfully obvious that you guys were in cahoots with your scribbly books and PDA messages where you talked to multiple people about converting(?) and unionizing, resorting to kidnapping and violence to achieve this.

Nothing really came of the shuttle assault as my officers dealt with it by the elevators/garden.

 

So TL;DR.
I did my best to not escalate, and gear/arm my officers appropriately with the information I had (Swords being utilized).
I delegated to the best of my ability.
I held off on repeated opportunities for arrests because there was no concrete evidence on you or any of the other cultists. Only a report from a single person that I couldnt just take their word for.
I did not utilize the AI to keep tabs on suspicious people, or to have it draw you out using fake PDA messages as it suggested to me at some point.
I tried to make a solid case using PDA evidence and testimonies before making proper arrests, but in the end, you being smack dead center of the reporter's claims, being surrounded by swords and remains was enough evidence to arrest you and get to the bottom of this macabre unionizing business.

 

Never did I try to shut down anything or stomp on the antags for merely existing, and Im sorry you felt like I did everything in my power to ruin your round.
Thats my side of things, I hope it sheds some light on stuff.

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Heyo.

 

I was one of the officers. I'd like to point out that the whole thing began with someone kidnapping the bartender in front of three of us at the bar, then decided to wordlessly attack me with a wrench. Given he was violent and then violent throughout his detainment, the moment he escaped - alongside someone breaching mining by forcing the airlock and then running around busting windows with a sword - riot gear was given out. At no point did any of us use said gear in anything other than a non-lethal way up until the end, where a bunch of sword cultists decided to attack the shuttle. 

Yes, part of the cult was peaceful, but the other half most certainly wasn't. Likewise, we kept making excuses for things like the reporter - citing no evidence, no witnesses, ect to give you guys more time - until he showed us the lair y'all had built. I don't really understand how any of the above constitutes powergaming, as your own character was not the target for said riot gear; the guy smashing shit up with a sword was.

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Im not sure where you got the information that cult swords are unrobust as they're probably one of the hardest hitting things around with a high knockdown and dismemberment chance.

You're a primary admin, which means you very well know that dismemberment isn't currently in the game. Please, please, please stop playing dumb. It doesn't suit you.

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And coupled with the cult robes you're almost unstoppable.

> target hands

You now have foiled any attempt at using the cult robes well, congratulations. It doesn't matter that you can take a baton to the chest and keep going when cult robes don't have gloves. Please. Please. I'm not this dumb, and neither are you.

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So naturally, I dont want my officers killed, so I give them riot gear, two carbines and a shotgun, all non-lethals. No lethal .45s were given out, no laser rifles. Only non-lethal.

Carbines are lethal weapons. Carbines are extremely lethal weapons. Do you disagree with me here?

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Then it was suggested we wait until the miner came to us so there wouldnt be a fight where the station could vent more, and I agreed to this because I didnt wanna send out a hitsquad to nail this guy.

> then it was suggested

Firstly, you're the HoS. You call the shots. There's nobody who made that decision but you. Secondly-

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I confiscated your PDA and book and let you go.

See, this message and the last is what I get at. You very conveniently end up getting a good excuse to hand out full riot gear and lethal weaponry. Then you very conveniently take away the two items valuable to any cult member, his book and his PDA. Your character has no idea what these books are, they're not allowed to know, it's just weird scribbling, but nope. Cult man bad, take it away, yoink it off him. At best, it's an understandable lapse of judgment. At worst, you ought to know better, you did what you thought would win you the round, you broke the server rule which very clearly states you don't get to know what antagonists do, and you powergamed your way through the round.

The one thing I did miss was your reason for ordering me searched again. After you'd done so very recently. What was that all about?

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Checke stuff, and from taking in consideration that the cult was hostile, using the riot ger and the carbine was fine. Now, some things.

On 10/08/2020 at 15:34, Karhast said:

You're a primary admin, which means you very well know that dismemberment isn't currently in the game. Please, please, please stop playing dumb. It doesn't suit you.

 

Except it is, it is reliable. Just because a mechanic does not work, it does not means people should ignored a sword and the danger it is. That would be metagaming.

On 10/08/2020 at 15:34, Karhast said:

> target hands

You now have foiled any attempt at using the cult robes well, congratulations. It doesn't matter that you can take a baton to the chest and keep going when cult robes don't have gloves. Please. Please. I'm not this dumb, and neither are you.

That would also be metagaming.

@Pratepresidenten Why did you take the cult's books?

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As I said in my initial post, I confiscated the engineer's book and PDA to cross-reference from the book and PDA I already had from the prisoner that vanished into thin air in front of me. I was trying to compile some evidence so could bring in the engineer and others that were entangled in this business in for questioning and ask what the hell was going on, and not just arrest or hold a suspect on zero evidence, because that is extremely shitty. His was the only book I took because after I had done so, the sword-swinging miner had to be responded to, as well as the lethal assault report from the journalist from the engineer in question (Where I had you searched a second time). And somewhere between these two, a blob had breached and depressurized the central hallway (I didn't know this, so I assumed it was the miner that had taken some liberties getting around).

His was the only book I confiscated because I did not have time to focus on my investigation, running PDA leads or questioning anyone because everything was falling apart and the crew transfer got called. There simply wasn't any time to do what I had planned because things just went from 1-100 really quickly.

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Well, if the first person did not have a book, I believe that taking it away would be an issue. But taking in consideration they had something to suspect about it being a group and the fact that a part of the cult went violent, I don't really see much issue here.

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