Forum bickering

[Guest]

Right. The fact that we can't have a decent discussion about security, without scopes having to close it, kind of a points to a pattern I've began noticing on the forums. Back when I started playing here, I was taken back by what seemed like favoritism of certain players, allowing them to get away with stuff they shouldn't. Now that it's mostly gone (by my own count), we've started turning on each other in a pretty horrid fashion. There is like this, OOC-IC police on the server, an autocratic state which corrects people by pointing out their every mistake and punishing them.

It seems that it's currently very hip to complain about shit that generally wouldn't be a problem, and while I do agree that they are problems, they were usually dealt with quietly. Now, the complaint board is turned into an inquisitional institute where people complain about anything and everything that bothers them or to simply get back at people. I mean, just look at it. Pointless stuff like using pill bottles instead of normal bottles, insults, assaults. The number of complaints has exploded in the last month or so and it's doing jack shit. The state of security has only worsened during that time, and people have started bickering like little children.

I don't know what the hell changed, but I've never been exposed to so much vitriol in my entire life. It's even worse than my high school. However, this should be the place where people go to escape from their workplace and their schools, not a place from which they should need a break from. Yet, more and more it seems it's the latter.

Either way, this is not my most thought out post, due to me being tired and demoralized, but people say they value me for bluntness, so I'll be blunt; I'm getting sick of this community which I used to like very much. I think everyone needs to take a step back and rethink what they are doing, because this metagrudging and shit-talking I hear from players has to stop. The people on this server are turning into hitler.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Guest

[Skull132]

For clarity's sake. This is Skull talking as a player. Not as a representative of the Admin Staff. What you read below are my personal beliefs and understandings, which do not match the rules, and are thus not enforceable.

But. I was taught something a few years back. Actually, it's a lesson that keeps popping up no matter where I go. So I have taken it to heart. Much like I have with other teachings and lessons.

It goes something like this: the moment you fall to the same level as the person you are complaining about, both of you will either be punished or ignored.

Now, this isn't how the staff operates here, but. Why is it like that in general? Well. It's mainly the fact that your opponent being a destructive dick doesn't give you the excuse for being a destructive dick. You may and probably should get slammed for it, as the excuse, "He broke the law, so can I!" does not hold water. Anywhere.

In doing so, I also personally expect the initial issue, and the subject of my complaining, to be ignored. Drastically more than were I to not violate the rules, and go through the proper channels. Let's use an example to illustrate.

Let's say a player joins our server. He gets testy over adminhelps with me. I have two options:

- Retain my composure and follow through with a series of neutral responses and see whether or not they cross the line. If they do, punish them.

- Drop my composure and engage them in a verbal duel, thus violating the very rules I am here to uphold, but more importantly, meant to adhere to as well -- acting like a dick towards them goes against the rules.

Let's say I choose the second option, against better judgement. And note that this has actually happened to a few minor degrees, usually when I find myself lone modding at like, 5 in the morning. Or my judgement is impaired in another fashion.

Anyways, I return fire and thus act like a dick towards them. By doing so, I willingly step away from any grounds on which I could punish them. I can non longer do that. Further more, I open myself up for a staff complaint and reprimanding action. This all means that the initial issue of that player being a butt is more likely to be ignored.

So yah. I dunno. Player complaints if you feel like someone's gone over the line, even if it ends up with the situation just being cleared up, it's still better than you muddling your own point through inappropriate action, don't you think?

[SgtSammac]

I must admit that, this is amongst the myriad of reasons that I have stepped back from the server recently, so many character complaints over really minor things which end up flooding away the major complaints.

That and I am: Working, in full time education, cadets and potentially learning to become a Civil Air Patrol Air Observer.

[Jamini]

I'm going to say one thing here, then move on. Aside from stating that I agree wholeheartedly with Boka on this.

A lot of Aurora players, not all but a significant percentage, generally have a single character and stick to a single department. Specifically in the two departments that receive the most complaints.

Skull mentioned to me fairly recently, before this shitstorm (which I'll be honest, is just as much my fault as anyone else's) that I focus very heavily into one department. Likewise that I do not, or did not, play in the department where the majority of my complaints were and are. He brought up that, at least by appearances, that I lacked perspective on the matter. Regardless of how accurate that statement was, it can be applied to a goodly number of people on the server. For the most part we don't move around or try new things. For a few reasons!

1. Making a new character is hard! Very hard! Some people, like Meowy, are good at it. Others aren't!

2. Justifying a character changing departments is virtually impossible due to the way we handle IC skills, certificates, requirements, and degrees.

3. Some departments can feel very hostile to attempt to join as a newcomer. Medical and Engineering are particularly bad in this regard.

However, I will say that departmental cliquishness on Aurora extends to a meta level that is extremely distressing. Personally, I do feel cliques are a good, human thing. However, when they extend to the point where you are unable, unwilling, or incapable of putting your feet in the other person's shoes it becomes a serious problem.

If we want to cut down on forum bickering, we all need to step up and move outside our comfort zone.

I strongly, strongly suggest that everyone move away from what is comfortable. Make a new character and try a department that you dislike or feel is being handled poorly. Perhaps your ideals or goals are right, perhaps your complaints are genuinely unfounded... the only real way to know is to step out on a limb and try. Perspective is important.

Did making a security character change my opinion on the department or individuals? Yes, and no. Fundamentally my opinion is unchanged. However I have gotten to see thought processes and the side of certain interactions that explain why some members of security are the way they are. Just as playing medical helped me understand why my own actions towards doctors were unwarrented when I first did so. Playing as a geneticist helped me understand WHY so many people have trouble with explaining CMD and not self-testing powers, and playing as a scientist helped me understand why so many of them break regulations to avoid getting bored out of their minds.

Walk a mile in another person's shoes. It can show you things you might not expect.

[Vanagandr]

It's not our fault, it's all those other assholes.

...leljk)))))

[Guest]

It's not our fault, it's all those other assholes.

...leljk)))))

 

Well, yeah, I'm personally at fault as well, didn't feel the need to mention it this time. It's not easy stepping away from an argument.

[Blue]

This is why I don't like having opinions on things.

[Dea Tacita]

I'm just going to say that I desperately want to keep this thread on-track, because it IS an important issue.

People have as of recently become .... hostile for lack of a better, non-offensive word. It's depressing, it's unnecessary and it's quite frankly immature at some points.

The vast majority of us really, really like Aurora. And I don't want Aurora to degenerate into a mass of asshats screaming at each other because someone's character accidentally flashed someone else's character. Be reasonable, don't just decide to shit all over someone's day because you don't like them.

[Carver]

For clarity's sake now and in the future, if I'm attempting to make a point in a debate for or against a suggestion and I come off as somewhat crass, it's not because I hate anyone's guts or anything. I'm not trying to be an asshole, I just prefer making my point rather blunt.

Sometimes this involves a small pinch of smart-assery, but it's mainly something I do if I feel the argument is becoming rather dense and stale, so as to help you read into what I said and see the point I'm trying to convey somewhat plainly.

In short, no, I'm not trying to be a dick to people with my style of argument. It's just how I debate and I wanted to make sure noone was getting the wrong message.

[mrimatool]

I'm just going to say that I desperately want to keep this thread on-track, because it IS an important issue.

People have as of recently become .... hostile for lack of a better, non-offensive word. It's depressing, it's unnecessary and it's quite frankly immature at some points.

The vast majority of us really, really like Aurora. And I don't want Aurora to degenerate into a mass of asshats screaming at each other because someone's character accidentally flashed someone else's character. Be reasonable, don't just decide to shit all over someone's day because you don't like them.

 

You mean people have become dicks** and I agree with everything else you said.

[Guest]

For sake of going the dialogue going, as Carver did, I'll point out my own faults.

Honestly, at times, I've felt strong dislike for some of the members of the community, something I never allowed myself to do. Why? Because hate clouds judgement and will turn you into an asshole. I guess that we can never have complete control over what we feel and think, so it's not really a fault I can take responsability for. Acting on those feelings is what you are, responsible for. Practice self-control. Just because you don't like someone that doesn't automatically mean that the person deserves whatever you do or say to them. Even if you conclude they do deserve it, allow me to quote the Bible, something that, as an atheist, I don't make a habit of doing.

'Let him who is without sin, throw the first stone.'

Regardless of how malodramatic or cheesy the quote seems, I think there is no way to punish anyone without looking like a hypocrit.

When I do lose my cool, I try not to act on it. When I did lose my cool, it resulted by me,on numerous occasions, starting to scream at moderation team when I die, because I can't handle dying in game. Every time I do, I tell myself and the staff that the person in question didn't do it properly and I push for them to intervene. However, I always go back on it when I cool down, because I realise how disruptive it is to the round, and me bitching for dying or things not going the way I want is juvenile behavior at best. Took me a while to realise, though, that this really is just a game and there are more ways to have fun other than playing your favorite character or doing what you want to that round, so I guess there is always the silver lining.

I also dislike chucklefuckery of all types, as I don't possess a lax sense of humour and there are many here who share the sentiment. The question is if we really want to turn the server into a strict work enviroment, where we have to work or get punished for it. I do, but for my own reason. The reason is the same one many regular security players share about the department. That is, I like to see Aurora run like a well oiled machine, where crew is productive, gets along and works as a team. If we generally, as a community, agree we don't, I honestly think we need to cut down on unwritten rules and the complaints.

Ehh, not sure what to say beside that. Regardless of everything, I miss playing with ya all. My ban should be over at April 1st.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Guest

[mrimatool]

For sake of going the dialogue going, as Carver did, I'll point out my own faults.

Honestly, at times, I've felt strong dislike for some of the members of the community, something I never allowed myself to do. Why? Because hate clouds judgement and will turn you into an asshole. I guess that we can never have complete control over what we feel and think, so it's not really a fault I can take responsability for. Acting on those feelings is what you are, responsible for. Practice self-control. Just because you don't like someone that doesn't automatically mean that the person deserves whatever you do or say to them. Even if you conclude they do deserve it, allow me to quote the Bible, something that, as an atheist, I don't make a habit of doing.

'Let him who is without sin, throw the first stone.'

Regardless of how malodramatic or cheesy the quote seems, I think there is no way not to punish anyone without looking like a hypocrit.

When I do lose my cool, I try not to act on it. When I did lose my cool, it resulted by me,on numerous occasions, starting to scream at moderation team when I die, because I can't handle dying in game. Every time I do, I tell myself and the staff that the person in question didn't do it properly and I push for them to intervene. However, I always go back on it when I cool down, because I realise how disruptive it is to the round, and me bitching for dying or things not going the way I want is juvenile behavior at best. Took me a while to realise, though, that this really is just a game and there are more ways to have fun other than playing your favorite character or doing what you want to that round, so I guess there is always the silver lining.

I also dislike chucklefuckery of all types, as I don't possess a lax sense of humour and there are many here who share the sentiment. The question is if we really want to turn the server into a strict work enviroment, where we have to work or get punished for it. I do, but for my own reason. The reason is the same one many regular security players share about the department. That is, I like to see Aurora run like a well oiled machine, where crew is productive, gets along and works as a team. If we generally, as a community, agree we don't, I honestly think we need to cut down on unwritten rules and the complaints.

Ehh, not sure what to say beside that. Regardless of everything, I miss playing with ya all. My ban should be over at April 1st.

 

Boka didn't like me people. It's true ;_; also you got banned?

Anyway continuing with Boka's confessions of faults. I have the habit of getting easily upset when someone won't stop arguing with me. I dislike arguments in general. I actually used to feel the same way that Boka does about Aurora running as a well oiled machine, this is something that comes from us being captains. Or to a lesser extent heads.

But after leaving for a long time, I came back and realised that antags and chaos are what make this game fun. Especially since I don't have the hours I used to have.

[Guest]

-snip-

 

Boka didn't like me people. It's true ;_; also you got banned?

Anyway continuing with Boka's confessions of faults. I have the habit of getting easily upset when someone won't stop arguing with me. I dislike arguments in general. I actually used to feel the same way that Boka does about Aurora running as a well oiled machine, this is something that comes from us being captains. Or to a lesser extent heads.

But after leaving for a long time, I came back and realised that antags and chaos are what make this game fun. Especially since I don't have the hours I used to have.

 

I got banned on personal request, as I noticed SS13 was disrupting my life in a much greater way than any other games did. However, couldn't make myself stay away from the forums. And no, initially I didn't, not until I got to know you a bit better. Honestly, talking one on one with the person in question solves most problems. Grudges are stupid.

As for chaos and antags, I agree, it has to be a controled, well thought out chaos. It's a game, not a grief simulator.

[GlamourChariot]

Honestly, talking one on one with the person in question solves most problems. Grudges are stupid.

 

I wasn't going to post in this thread, but I believe this is probably the most important take away from it thus far.

Pay attention, people.