Re-add Nurse back to medical.

[MattAtlas]

Nurse was removed because it was a functionally useless alt title. I'm not sure where people are imagining that it was used for roleplay, because it wasn't: the one nurse character that I can remember did the exact same thing a physician does now. There's not really enough content for nurse to even consider that people might do something creative with the role, because they already can as physician. Why aren't they? The truth is that the much coveted "patient RP" is completely inexistant and will forever be. People don't want to be stuck in the medbay for more than they have to because it's utterly boring. This is because when injuries actually happen, there's going to be a large influx of patients or that person needs to get out ASAP, because more than likely they're a security officer.

On that note, I also don't agree with the assessment that job bloat doesn't exist. It's a very real thing. Example: do you remember when we had roboticist alt titles and people would regularly play mechatronic engineers? That all seems fine and cool until you remember that there were often cases where two roboticists would play mechatronic engineer and give a gigantic middle finger to IPCs that got wounded or borgs in general, because they limit themselves to playing a roboticist that only makes mechs in a limited slot job. This is a real problem and it exists in other forms, too: like people described, the path a patient takes through medical (lobby -> stabilization/scanning in the GTR -> surgery) doesn't allow for a third role in the midst of it all. This is why it's been streamlined to physician and surgeon; a nurse role is going to inevitably step on the toes of a physician and rob them of basically the only purpose their job has, considering that the only times they ever do surgery is when surgeons are lacking. That's not really something I want to happen. And the prospect of a nurse only playing to do patient RP is pretty ridiculous, one that I'm not even going to entertain.

This is why I was against nurses being re-added - I do admit there's bias since I was the one that removed the role entirely, but I haven't seen much of a convincing argument.

[Lmwevil]

On 05/08/2021 at 00:29, MattAtlas said:

Nurse was removed because it was a functionally useless alt title. I'm not sure where people are imagining that it was used for roleplay, because it wasn't: the one nurse character that I can remember did the exact same thing a physician does now. There's not really enough content for nurse to even consider that people might do something creative with the role, because they already can as physician. Why aren't they? The truth is that the much coveted "patient RP" is completely inexistant and will forever be. People don't want to be stuck in the medbay for more than they have to because it's utterly boring. This is because when injuries actually happen, there's going to be a large influx of patients or that person needs to get out ASAP, because more than likely they're a security officer.

On that note, I also don't agree with the assessment that job bloat doesn't exist. It's a very real thing. Example: do you remember when we had roboticist alt titles and people would regularly play mechatronic engineers? That all seems fine and cool until you remember that there were often cases where two roboticists would play mechatronic engineer and give a gigantic middle finger to IPCs that got wounded or borgs in general, because they limit themselves to playing a roboticist that only makes mechs in a limited slot job. This is a real problem and it exists in other forms, too: like people described, the path a patient takes through medical (lobby -> stabilization/scanning in the GTR -> surgery) doesn't allow for a third role in the midst of it all. This is why it's been streamlined to physician and surgeon; a nurse role is going to inevitably step on the toes of a physician and rob them of basically the only purpose their job has, considering that the only times they ever do surgery is when surgeons are lacking. That's not really something I want to happen. And the prospect of a nurse only playing to do patient RP is pretty ridiculous, one that I'm not even going to entertain.

This is why I was against nurses being re-added - I do admit there's bias since I was the one that removed the role entirely, but I haven't seen much of a convincing argument.

Would you be for merging physician and surgeon? I mean you yourself made a pretty good argument for it and the divide is kinda weird and pointless

[MattAtlas]

15 hours ago, Lmwevil said:

Would you be for merging physician and surgeon?

I'm not against it.

[Marlon P.]

23 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

I'm not against it.

I had that stance for the longest time. The medical reform that clarified all the roles was a compromise from this secret radical stance of mine.

Still, having some intermediate role between intern and physician could be good. Given the atmospherics-level of depth to new-medical.

[Kaizr]

On 08/08/2021 at 14:38, Marlon P. said:

I had that stance for the longest time. The medical reform that clarified all the roles was a compromise from this secret radical stance of mine.

Agreed. I also think it would be beneficial due to the fact that the roles are oftentimes used interchangeably which honstley makes no sense. Open heart surgery isn't something you'll see your every-day direct care physician handling on a daily basis. However, that is ultimately a thing for a different thread. While changing the rules around who can do what is off the table, merging the roles seems like a much easier way of going about it.

[greenjoe]

I wonder if the new merged role would warrant a new name

[Peppermint]

Bringing this back up yet again as I'm twisted and fucked up.

Anyhow, what about merging surgeon and physician and adding nurse in the physician slot? It's essentially the same role but makes a bit more sense name-wise. It reduces the dreaded surgery chart and streamlines what people can and can't do within the department with far fewer hoops to jump through. Plus less of the 'why would I just not play surgeon?' argument for regular docs.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Peppermint

[Fluffy]

14 minutes ago, Peppermint said:

what about merging surgeon and physician

This was polled in 

 

And was rejected by both community and maintainers, do you believe there was an opinion shift on the topic since then, so that a new poll would yield a different result?

 

20 minutes ago, Peppermint said:

Plus less of the 'why would I just not play surgeon?' argument for regular docs.

I believe one would not play surgeon because, if there is a physician and is not overwhelmed, treatments in the GTR are expected to be left to said physician;

it is also possible to introduce additional characterizations, too, such as a medication chart on who can use certain medications, which I would propose in three tiers, tier one would be FRs and pharmacists, tier two would be surgeons and psychiatrist, and tier three would be physicians; I can go in more detail on it if anyone is interested.

In regards to a nurse slot, I would potentially agree with it, though that seems it would be subjected to the same 'why would I just not play physurgeon?' question in the scenario you propose, how would you address it?

[Boggle08]

2 hours ago, Peppermint said:

Bringing this back up yet again as I'm twisted and fucked up.

Anyhow, what about merging surgeon and physician and adding nurse in the physician slot? It's essentially the same role but makes a bit more sense name-wise. It reduces the dreaded surgery chart and streamlines what people can and can't do within the department with far fewer hoops to jump through. Plus less of the 'why would I just not play surgeon?' argument for regular docs.

Why not merge the pharmacist into this new GTR intermediary role, then? You can achieve a lot of GTR work with just chems, and this new intermediary role will be completely useless without them.

It'll also fix the pharmacist's issue of being fucking useless after completing the bay's spread.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Boggle08
needed to say one more thing.