Staff complaint - MattAtlas

[AnselmKonrad]

BYOND Key:  anselmkonrad
Staff BYOND Key:  mattatlas
Game ID: cc7-cx9R (I believe is the right one, if not the one before or after)
Evidence/logs/etc: Server rules / Stationbound law 2: Serve and assist NanoTrasen and assigned crew to the best of your ability, with priority as according to their rank and role.
Additional remarks: I know players who can back me up in some of what I am saying, but unless asked I will not state who, because I don't know if that is allowed on staff complaints.
Responses will at least initially be slow, I finished typing this as I was going to bed, sorry.

2021-07-19 21:09:34 Banned from pAI, AI, Cyborg - Excessively shadowing others and responding to issues that you should not be responding to with your module. Please stick to your module's job unless necessary. Don't try to help everywhere at all costs unless asked to.

I am contesting this staff action because after some time to sit and think about it. It makes somewhat no sense rule wise and was 100% justified ICly, I had thought but failed to communicate this in my ticket, and I feel this is an invalid reason for a job ban or even a note, regardless of my history.


I will dissect my reasonings portion per portion for this ban, please ask questions for further details and reasonings of why I do what, i tried to minimize details simply to keep the post small

First and foremost: "Excessively shadowing others"
I see this not only common from other stationbounds but this is to my knowledge not even against rules, I stick around some characters for various reasons ICly but not for a lack of one. 

"Responding to issues that you should not be responding to with your module."
This was not a rule from what I saw, and when I have the capacity to help in certain situations, assuming my current module's job is handled or sufficiently staffed for it, I have the ability to help solve some situations such as access for security, or helping move multiple casualties with an EMT. or dragging something for engineering. When my job is done, assistance is rendered where I can when I can, even if it is just dragging an item for someone or opening a door. It helps the other players out and ensures whomever can get the task done successfully, as my lawset asks me to do so.

"Please stick to your module's job unless necessary. Dont try to help everywhere at all costs unless asked to."
This is not against the rules from what I looked at. If I am needed in my job I stick to my job, but often a job I pick I will get done quickly because I know how to do it quickly and/or will be staffed and I will not needed as I try to let players do things themselves beyond me helping/teaching and assist where needed. To also add onto this, I am often asked by players to help them out because of my ICly reliability, I cannot help responding when I am either: asked, or the situation warrants a response from me in general. If I know crew are dying or have the fair risk of dying (outside of the medical bay) I am going to be present if I am not already occupied with my job and minimize casualties if I can help it as my lawset practically asks me to do so.

Edited July 21, 2021 by AnselmKonrad

[MattAtlas]

20 minutes ago, AnselmKonrad said:

"Responding to issues that you should not be responding to with your module."
This was not a rule from what I saw, and when I have the capacity to help in certain situations, assuming my current module's job is handled or sufficiently staffed for it, I have the ability to help solve some situations such as access for security, or helping move multiple casualties with an EMT. or dragging something for engineering. When my job is done, assistance is rendered where I can when I can, even if it is just dragging an item for someone or opening a door. It helps the other players out and ensures whomever can get the task done successfully, as my lawset asks me to do so.

> Additionally, keep your character's goals in mind. For example, as security, during a traitor round, your goal is not to catch traitors, but ensure the safety of the station and provide assistance as needed.

This is in the rules. It applies to jobs as well as character motivations. I bwoinked you for the same reason I would bwoink a scientist who responds to every medical situation known to man. It is infuriating, as a player, to be constantly shadowed by someone who can do your job better than you can, and it is infuriating as someone that has to deal with these situations IC to have someone constantly show up to security situations.

This rule applies to the rest of what you said as well, really. I would have bwoinked a cyborg for this and I would have bwoinked a human for doing it too. It's the same thing. Lawsets do not override rules and there is nowhere in the rules where it says cyborgs are exempted from following them.

[AnselmKonrad]

9 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

> Additionally, keep your character's goals in mind. For example, as security, during a traitor round, your goal is not to catch traitors, but ensure the safety of the station and provide assistance as needed.

I understand that rule 100% if it was any other type of character, because of training / education / jobs and the likes why would anyone other than the respective person in that job respond to something, its not their goal ICly, nor would they generally know how to do so.

It fits perfectly with every type character besides stationbounds because a statinbound's goals are their laws, and they dont have "personal goals" unless they have no laws; which unless they were a tator / subverted by an antag it does not apply. Even if they had no laws, their own goals are their literal own choices then as the player and can do what they want as long as it isnt literal murderbone. Cyborgs are supposed to generally understand most jobs and their goals are their laws, and the normal law two states to assist your assigned crew to the best of your ability. Therefore, one of my character's goals is to assist the crew to the best of my ability. They're basically super assistants with access. Stationbound's goals change with their laws, their laws do not change with their goals.  They are required to assist because that is their goal, all it takes is for someone to say "go away i've got this" and the stationbound's goal of listening to crew therefore requires it to leave otherwise it violates law two, and thats all that has to happen. In all of the times I have assisted someone, I am often not told to leave, so unless my current module's job demands otherwise, I generally stick around until told otherwise, which is not very often I get told to leave.

In my opinion, if this applies to stationbounds then it needs to be clarified because this is a legit IC issue otherwise. A stationbound has no other goals other than their lawset. The player may interpret and do things differently than the next player, but generally above all they are still required to do what their laws state they need to do, and that is their ultimate goal.

I should not receive a job ban when the rule is not clarified for this.

Edited July 22, 2021 by AnselmKonrad

[MattAtlas]

You are talking a lot about cyborgs and their goals, but notice that my post focused on the other part of the rule: the one where it specifically talks about your job's goals. You are required to assist people, that much is true, but like that rule says, you should keep it to where your module is relevant. This feels like common sense to me, hence why I can count the people I bwoinked about this in a three year span of being an admin on one hand, but I agree that maybe the rule should be clarified. And if it is clarified, like you said, I wouldn't be against wiping your ban off your record.

4 hours ago, AnselmKonrad said:

I should not receive a job ban when the rule is not clarified for this.

You received a job ban because your history with cyborg play is pretty bad. Like I said in your ticket, in any other case this would've been a note, and in fact I gave you less of a ban than I do usually for offenses after warnings: it was a 1 day ban instead of a 3 day ban.

Edited July 22, 2021 by MattAtlas

[Garnascus]

Alright so, a lot of this is a lot of posting about the rules but what actually happened during the round in which @AnselmKonrad was banned? @MattAtlas . 

[MattAtlas]

From what I recall there was an adminhelp towards the later end of the round (at about 1:30ish) from someone complaining about FROST's general behaviour. They highlighted two problems in particular:

1. FROST responded to a medical emergency as a research module despite there being medical;

2. FROST was following the investigators around and into the office and had to be specifically told to leave for it to go away.

The other thing they highlighted was that this is not a one round problem. This happens a lot with this specific cyborg and it is an assessment that I agree with.

From what I collected from asking AnselmKonrad, the first problem was on shaky justification. The cyborg responded to a medical emergency because they walked into medical, saw that medical was busy and nobody was coming. This is mostly what made me raise an eyebrow, because I don't really think a research module cyborg should be doing this, unless it specifically happens in front of them.

The second one was fine, but it highlighted the same behaviour. The cyborg followed the investigators all the way into their office, to tell them about the time of death of the body. It was mostly unnecessary, really, but fine. This is the one where he had to be told to leave by the investigators because neither of them wanted the cyborg around.

This is where the parts about "excessively responding to things you shouldn't be responding to" and "excessively shadowing others" come from.

[Susan]

I was asked to post due to witnessing some of Frost's behavior in a recent event.

During last week's Skrell arc, Frost most certainly excessively shadowed Kathira El-Hashem. As part of the round, Tup Commandos boarded the station and began to attempt to take custody of some refugees who had crash landed there. Wielding dangerous particle weaponry and advanced combat suits, they could go invisible, teleport, and even shot at and hit investigator Rose.

Now, I would like to point out that during this round, Kathira El-Hashem was a visitor. I viewed the cyborg unit's camera several times after the aforementioned maintenance chase where Rose got shot, and in doing so I witnessed Frost basically following Kathira around the tunnels in other parts of the station. Given she was a visitor, she does not have innate maintenance access. This meant that Frost had to be providing her access, despite the fact dangerous agents of the Jargon Federation were lurking in there. This directly put a visitor in harm's way - a visitor they should not be permitting access to these restricted areas of the station to begin with.

It was practically by her side almost the entire round.

[AnselmKonrad]

3 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

1. FROST responded to a medical emergency as a research module despite there being medical;

I looked at the suit sensors just to see if anyone was hurt and to see where everyone is on my internal computer and saw someone dying / dead. I immediately attempted to contact medical twice both times with no response, which is in the chat logs, and even walked into their lobby to find nobody sitting in their lobby, so I grabbed a bed. The person dying / dead was in my department: research, the scientist named cooper, and I would have had to retrieve them anyways as the elevator was stuck because cooper was in the doorway of the elevator not allowing it to move. Response time was critical and if medical wouldnt and didnt respond, I could, and did. I brought the body to medical and was still ignored (which to be frank I understand is hard to believe but, was true), not even questioned, about the body in my possession as I finally came across the staff nonchalantly sitting around a patient who didnt seem to be immediately dying. To medical's credit in the round, I didnt notify them that I had someone coming in immediately following their retrieval. But my presence with a body should have at least alerted them.

 

3 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

2. FROST was following the investigators around and into the office and had to be specifically told to leave for it to go away.

This is simply untrue, and portrays a different scenario. Immediately following my retreival of the body and being ignored by medical, I got them into a body bag and then I brought it to security to be autopsied as I knew they were dead. (Sat on "Extrmely low oxygen" on suit sensors for over 3-4 minutes at this point. OOCly kinda knew they were dead.) And I "Followed" the investigators to their lab for two reasons. One, I was going to ask them for how they died or at least have it relayed to the research director, but this wasnt my priority at that second, and two, I was going to tell kathira when I found the body as the investigators needed it for their paperwork. After what happened in the lab, I left, and never came back. I didnt even bother security after this again, I did not stalk them. I "followed" the invesigators around for a total of maybe 3-4 minutes.
 

 

3 hours ago, MattAtlas said:

This is the one where he had to be told to leave by the investigators because neither of them wanted the cyborg around.

The IPC invetigator in the round told me to leave, which I failed to immediately see because at this time I was searching through the chat logs to see approximately when I found the body, as I immediately examined it and took a pulse count at the time to confirm a status. No pulse. and it wasnt until I visually saw kathira's chat bubbles telling me the "other invesitgator wished for me to leave." The one investigator wanted me to leave, but this is not the first time i've spoken with kathira or helped her in the lab. I am generally accepted by kathira there, both did not wish for me to leave. I failed to leave immediately because I was busy telling them the time of discovery / death. After realizing, I left immediately, and once again, never came back.



The events that happened that round were legitimately one after another. Beyond this that round the only thing I actually responded to was a blob, and brought the engineers an emitter, and a cleaning bot broke down and I retrieved it for robotics. I did nothing else that round, I sat there generally roaming around being bored or spoke / interacted with crew. RnD didnt need me, robotics already had two roboticist and everyone knows robotics doesnt get enough "work" to go around anyways, and people in RnD tend to prefer to do it themselves. I am not going to interrupt their work or steal it.

[AnselmKonrad]

3 hours ago, Susan said:

Now, I would like to point out that during this round, Kathira El-Hashem was a visitor. I viewed the cyborg unit's camera several times after the aforementioned maintenance chase where Rose got shot, and in doing so I witnessed Frost basically following Kathira around the tunnels in other parts of the station. Given she was a visitor, she does not have innate maintenance access. This meant that Frost had to be providing her access, despite the fact dangerous agents of the Jargon Federation were lurking in there. This directly put a visitor in harm's way - a visitor they should not be permitting access to these restricted areas of the station to begin with.

We were following hot on the trail of the investigator that round who was running around essentially trying to get themselves killed in revenge after the tups. Kathira was in constant contact with command that event. Kathira was also the only other one who could have stopped them from killing themselves for two reasons. They were a friend of said person, and they were also incontact with security. If allowing someone into maintenance tunnels is wrong even if the situation permits otherwise, then cyborgs shouldnt be allowed to let even security into the maintenance tunnels for any reason as they do not have inherent access either.

 This witness is somewhat irrelevant.
My reasoning behind why is because unless this person is kathira themselves, this is nothing more than a recollection of information strictly from a soundless video source with absolutely no interaction messages or anything beyond strictly visuals. as all that was seen on my end is my camera from a monitoring console. Not what was said to who, not why things were done or what even happened beyond what was seen in my camera for myself. I dont even think I came into contact with whomever this was in the round on an IC basis Pda or otherwise. Nor was I asked to stop despite obvious and clearly stated monitoring, Not by my secret watcher, not by the captain who we met up with, not by the CMO who we spoke to, not by any member of command or crew we came in contact with. We were surrounded by the near entirety of command at two points and not a single soul that round had asked or even mentioned why/what me and kathira were doing being where we were ICly or otherwise in that round until now. Not even a bwoink despite our obvious involvements with certain parts of the event that I can almost guarantee an admin or two were or at least would have been watching. Additionally. With me and kathira in the maintenance tunnels, kathira was following rose through doors rose opened, not me. I opened a one or two just so they didnt get stuck in the tunnels but ultimately it was primarily them walking through open doors after rose. Tajaran are faster than humans and she kept pace. I lagged behind barely keeping up. Not me purely granting access. Kathira was ahead of me nearly the whole time.

Edited July 22, 2021 by AnselmKonrad
Added reasoning why its irrelevant and a terrible standpoint against me. Previous info was before any additional posts after M83T45's. Plus... spelling / formatting mistakes. I'm sorry i'm picky.

[MattAtlas]

3 minutes ago, AnselmKonrad said:

This is somewhat irrelevant.

It is not irrelevant. I told Sue to post because she directly witnessed an event that I needed to verify my claim of this not being a one round error, but instead behaviour that's consistent across rounds.

I can see that this is not going anywhere, so I'm not going to reply to further arguments about what you did or did not do unless Garn needs me to.

Edited July 22, 2021 by MattAtlas

[AnselmKonrad]

@MattAtlas I understand ceasing to respond, but I have given you an answer for everything I have done thats been said I did thus far and the reasons behind them. I'm trying to leave as little gaps as possible. My entire point of this complaint was simply that if the rules do not clarrify this for stationbounds who are a tad different than your average job and in a way do not fit said rule, this shouldnt have been even a note.

Not even my note about responding to a medical emergency as a medical module alongside of an EMT should not have been a thing if me sticking to my module is the problem, but this is for another complaint and is irrelevant for this current one.

Furthermore, apologies, at this point this is dragging on, why was @DeskerBecauseILostMyAccoun's post  (wouldnt automaticly populate the name) deleted if sue was asked to respond to prove the consistent behavior, I asked desker to respond for the same reasoning of my consistent behavior, even if the result wasn't fully in my favor. 

Edited July 22, 2021 by AnselmKonrad
Added photo of deleted post.

[M83T45]

I was asked to post due to witnessing some of Frost's behavior in a recent event.

So, as for the round with the tups, I can't attest to who he was following, but in regards to being on the correct module, as far as I remember, he always came back to swap out modules with a reset while Robotics was up, however, Robotics itself was completely destroyed during the round, making it hard to change modules reliably for any of the Cyborgs on station during that shift.

Also, the times I've been playing on the server where frost is also on, It's practically guaranteed that frost will be requested by multiple people across the station, with everyone keen to work with him, which I believe is in part due to how enjoyable it is to RP with him, as well as the fact that he is simply good at his assigned job as a Stationbound, many times I've been in a pickle where I'm asked to do something as a Roboticist that I'm hazy about or unfamiliar with, and Frost is always there, only at my request, to help me out with it. I've never felt that he's been overbearing or shadowy in any aspect when I've interacted with him, including times where he's been in research module mode, where he's been doing science stuff in order to supplant nobody being in science at the time.

Overall, he's one of the best stationbounds to rp with, at least in my experience.

[Garnascus]

Dekser was not involved in the situation that resulted in this ban. Sue and M8 witnessed events where matt alledges you broke the rules previously and thus help explain why he banned you instead of warning you. 

[Pantertainment]

I can't say I quite know how I would interpret the rules for a stationbound, so I can't say anything about the validity of this ban.

What I can do is say that as a player coming back to the game, I have asked for FROST's help quite a few times, and I have never felt like they overstayed their welcome.
As a clumsy engineer, sometimes the only engineer on shift, having FROST be available and willing to help (if they aren't busy doing something else) has been a lifesaver.
On a few occasions they were in fact busy in their own department (when they weren't assigned to engineering) and in those cases they behaved as one would expect, and informed me they were unavailable.
FROST never stood out in a bad way among the stationbounds, which I think I would have noticed, seeing as how my character is more comfortable around humans.

Edit: I am very interested in seeing how this affects the rules, as I agree with both MattAtlas and AnselmKonrad that this rule might have to be clarified to prevent this problem in the future.

Edited July 22, 2021 by Pantertainment
Forgot to express curiosity.

[WickedCybs]

I definitely noticed the shadowing, and it was something I was keeping an eye on during the last Skrell event (I was playing officer) because Frost is played as a more social borg. Following its friends was something I expected, and it did really cross the line then. It was pretty much without fail that whenever I came across them they were on the heels of Kathira and Rose at any important juncture. I can't say whether they provided access into maint or not but they essentially acted as Kathira's key into the bridge from my observations and likely myriad other places like maintenance. The justification for doing so doesn't really track here because Rose never should have made Kathira into another quasi-investigator to begin with, Kathira had no real contact with most of security. I was later made aware they were listening in on our comms as well. FROST facilitated them both. If that became more apparent in round, I definitely think it would have been handled ICly.

A ticket was sent in about this too, my involvement meant I could not take care of it myself. If you are wondering why it was never brought to your attention, I believe the round was essentially already over at that point.

Edited July 23, 2021 by WickedCybs
adding a thing

[AnselmKonrad]

3 hours ago, WickedCybs said:

 I was later made aware they were listening in on our comms as well. FROST facilitated them both.

If this is referring to facilitating the comms, then... no.. I wasnt facilitating any communications. I also wasn't aware of this until after the round was over. But I had assumed PDA contact was involved in all portions.

However, I did not grant access to the bridge. Once again there were several other people who walked into the bridge, we walked in with the group when the people in danger were sent off in the research shuttle "to be saved." This is one of the parts where we were surrounded by the current command team and non of them asked us to leave. Kathira never became her own investigator. Outside of this, we were sheltering in research or speaking with others in medical on trying to find a safe place to hide crew. Beyond that, while in the bridge, the captain was given information about what happened earlier with the tups as she was directly involved in one of the kidnappings by witnessing (and even having a recording) of it. There were IC justifications for everything and if I have to give you a reason for everything in question, I will.

 

4 hours ago, WickedCybs said:

If that became more apparent in round, I definitely think it would have been handled ICly.

The fact I was monitored through-out the round ontop of our contact with command several times should have ended up with it being handled ICly, but I was never contacted.

I'll be out of home for a while today so I cant respond much for a while

The event in question also is not the round this ban took place, the only thing in question about this event regarding my ban is purely that I "Excessively shadow others"

[WickedCybs]

1 hour ago, AnselmKonrad said:

If this is referring to facilitating the comms, then... no.. I wasnt facilitating any communications. I also wasn't aware of this until after the round was over. But I had assumed PDA contact was involved in all portions.

However, I did not grant access to the bridge. Once again there were several other people who walked into the bridge, we walked in with the group when the people in danger were sent off in the research shuttle "to be saved." This is one of the parts where we were surrounded by the current command team and non of them asked us to leave. Kathira never became her own investigator. Outside of this, we were sheltering in research or speaking with others in medical on trying to find a safe place to hide crew. Beyond that, while in the bridge, the captain was given information about what happened earlier with the tups as she was directly involved in one of the kidnappings by witnessing (and even having a recording) of it. There were IC justifications for everything and if I have to give you a reason for everything in question, I will.

More a statement that you facilitated the two in general and were a constant observer to their actions. It's a very bad look, even if you were just adjacent to the visitor going far out of scope of what they should be doing. If I gave you the benefit of the doubt, it's all still a prime example of FROST shadowing those individuals, and it is a pattern. 

1 hour ago, AnselmKonrad said:

The fact I was monitored through-out the round ontop of our contact with command several times should have ended up with it being handled ICly, but I was never contacted.

This changes little. Even if it's not actively brought up in game by others and even if Command isn't commenting on it (they were very busy) doesn't make it okay. I wouldn't even think the incident was relevant to the complaint if it wasn't for FROST being glued to Kathira. It's behaviour I've seen on many different rounds now, the event just made it far more noticeable to me.

Nobody is omnipresent in the end. You seem rather used to being hands-on with investigations.

1 hour ago, AnselmKonrad said:

The event in question also is not the round this ban took place, the only thing in question about this event regarding my ban is purely that I "Excessively shadow others"

I'm aware. Since this is noted to be a consistent issue, I'm noting what I have seen in the past. It's fine to have friends and help them out. You go well past this.

This is all I really have to say on that matter.

[AnselmKonrad]

@WickedCybs I dont see how anything of that applies then. I dont even know what what you're saying I facilitated as that makes even less sense than before. You didnt see me grant access? Then It didnt happen, I have said I didnt, and nobody seems to have seen anything beyond me chasing kathira around. Thats not a rule violation. I have been told these things violate rules, but I have yet to be told what, why and explained as to why it is, rules by design are not for interpretation as then that allows you as the admin to selectively choose what a rule means and what it doesnt mean and stretch them to mean this or that.  That is unprofessional and is corruption.

 

On 21/07/2021 at 23:09, MattAtlas said:

> Additionally, keep your character's goals in mind. For example, as security, during a traitor round, your goal is not to catch traitors, but ensure the safety of the station and provide assistance as needed.

Station bounds do not fit properly under the rule quoted because of the way they are designed, futhermore, my behavior as "Shadowing" someone is common amongst several other stationbound players whom I play with even at the same time / rounds as myself and never been bwoinked or heard of them bwoinked. I view this as selective administration amongst admins which is basically corruption at its finest. To shadow someone is to "Follow them and do their job" I.E. Job shadowing IRL. which I will not deny that I do respond alongside some people given the type of situation reported and will assist them, but I do not steal their job, nor do I force myself on them to do it for them and I let them do the work as has been testified by two players. If I "Force" myself to assist it is typically a medical emergency with an EMT trying to stop them from dying as something is forgotten such as inaprovaline or improper bandaging of a bleeding limb. Keeping people in the round is my personal goal. But I have given you all of my original reasonings in my previous posts. Please refer to them at this point for clarrification

It is not my fault you do not read your own guides. It states quite literally "As a non-traitor AI/Cyborg, it is your duty to help protect and operate the ship/station." It says NOTHING about sticking to your own module. To me it says to help operate the STATION not just where your module lies, and my laws state nothing otherwise.
Regardless of the fact that it is not maintained, it is still referenced in the server rules, if it was not valid information then it should not have been linked.

I just want a resolution that I hoped to get, but instead I have things unrelated to my ban besides evidence that I have un-ending assistance to the station, which is what a stationbound is intended to do. If it wasnt, why does law 2 say this, and if its against the rules to do what I do, why does law 2 violate the rules? I cannot violate my laws otherwise that violates rules. I have been introuble for both. So which is it? I cant do one and I cant do the other. I dont know what you want me to do.

Look, this complaint has dragged on two days. I just want it resolved. I have given a reason and/or answer for just about everything thus far. At this point it is an argument and not even remotely a complaint. If you think that this is a personal attack just because I was banned you are seriously mistaken as I do not seek matt to be punished I just want my ban removed. But I see at this point nothing but pettiness. I have nothing more to say as its already been said, mentioned, or hinted at 2-3 times already by myself or admins and is thus pointless. What more do you ask of me? What beyond supposedly this singular minor rule violation have I supposedly committed to warrant a ban? I have been banned for literally doing my job too well.

Please, can I just get a ending statement, response, or something from a head admin as once again this divulged into something other than a complaint. I rest my case as this is beginning to be petty. I have spoken to several players about this entire thread who shall not be named as some fearing administrative retaliation and have declined to comment. Most are not happy about this and agree or wish for the rule to clarrify. 

Edited July 23, 2021 by AnselmKonrad
Added image

[Omicega]

I made the ahelp that spawned this complaint. I'm going to keep my contribution here brief, blunt, and to the point.

I am aware that the player of the cyborg in question has at least one OOC friend in security who plays investigations. I hadn't really been playing much at all for a solid month prior to coming back to Aurora again maybe two weeks ago, but even so it was pretty clear to me that this relationship was in place, from observations I made both in-game and elsewhere. I understand that FROST had probably become accustomed to helping their security pals out without specifically being asked to do so, as well as extending this behaviour elsewhere across the station.

Frankly put, I neither wanted nor asked for any help in investigations in the round in question. When I actually manage to win a hotly-contested job roll (seriously, try it) I'd like to actually be able to perform the job in question without feeling shut out by an established player with a lot of time on their hands rolling the same job constantly round-the-clock, this time accompanied their cyborg friend 'just trying to help' and with both of them looking over my shoulder the whole time, hovering in place while I try to figure out the ins and outs of a job that's new to me. It's a behaviour pattern I noticed before, hence why I mentioned it in the ahelp, but that I never really had grounds to address until it affected me directly.

I appreciate that other people in this friend are happy to have help offered to them by this cyborg in particular. Unfortunately, any attempt to help me out specifically came across very much as almost cliquey job monopolisation, and I wasn't really in the mood to gently clarify this given the insistence with which every other party involved approached it. I hope this provides some context to the decision-making behind the ahelp in the first place.

If I could have expanded the ahelp to cover the broader issue, I would, but I suspect a large portion of my complaints are just player-based without specifically venturing into areas that infringe rules. Having a research cyborg flit around everywhere I went because it was laser-focused on a security issue, though, pushed my buttons enough that I threw it up to staff for them to figure out.

[AnselmKonrad]

12 hours ago, Omicega said:

Frankly put, I neither wanted nor asked for any help in investigations in the round in question.

My only response to what omicega says is that I did not go out of my way to help with investigations that round, I only simply brought them a body after visiting medical and tried to give them a time of discovery as I was the one that found the body. Any and all additional details or things related were found or learned by the security department themselves in the round in question and were fully autonomous from myself outside of this singular event I took part in, The other "security issue" I can really think of that round I had a hand in was the cleaning bot reported to be broken. However, you also responded to this in that round, but that was not a security issue, that is a robotics issue of which I soon therefore brought it back to robotics for them to repair as was my right as a research module. The body in question was also from inside my department. I had not responded to anything else security wise.

However, I did at one point sit around in their lobby speaking with crew members as I do infact know a lot of them ICly / commonly see them arguably more than other departmental players, but at that time any tasks I would have had in research were already being handled and / or I was not being requested.
 

 

Edited July 25, 2021 by AnselmKonrad

[AnselmKonrad]

I honestly just want my ban removed from my record and a more properly written guide on stationbounds / AI / pAI is all I am really after here, can this be done or are investigations still taking place?

Edited July 26, 2021 by AnselmKonrad

[Garnascus]

On 22/07/2021 at 11:40, AnselmKonrad said:

I looked at the suit sensors just to see if anyone was hurt and to see where everyone is on my internal computer and saw someone dying / dead. I immediately attempted to contact medical twice both times with no response, which is in the chat logs, and even walked into their lobby to find nobody sitting in their lobby, so I grabbed a bed. The person dying / dead was in my department: research, the scientist named cooper, and I would have had to retrieve them anyways as the elevator was stuck because cooper was in the doorway of the elevator not allowing it to move. Response time was critical and if medical wouldnt and didnt respond, I could, and did.

@MattAtlas Is it true that the person injured was in his department? What should anselm have done differently here?

[MattAtlas]

11 hours ago, Garnascus said:

Is it true that the person injured was in his department?

 

I wasn't told this by the player. In fact, they just said "I went to the location", without elaborating on it. The original adminhelp I took simply stated that they performed a rescue in lieu of medical.

[AnselmKonrad]

@Garnascus Zero cooper was the xenobiologist in the round, the person I retrieved from the research elevator, he was found out later to be killed by slimes by security. The investigators of said round would know, as they PDA'ed me the discovery of death from their autopsy.

Edited July 28, 2021 by AnselmKonrad
Added detail of reliable witnesses

[Garnascus]

Alright, well it seems to me retrieving the xenobotanist was reasonable. Everything after that does make me scratch my head a bit. Its just not your job to take the body to security to be autopsied. It is medical's job to release cadavers.