Complaint - Mel

[NotASpider]

BYOND key: Cooleosis

Staff key: Mel

Game ID: unknown/various

Complaint:

The story here can be gleaned from the following screencaps. I'm learning how important it is to document everything.

https://imgur.com/a/Vp6nvLh

TL;DR I've been fucking up, thinking that nothing matters, even the rules, if it's for the sake of good rp. It took getting banned to learn my lesson.

My goal here is to get a timer put on this ban. The whole point of temp bans is to impart a harsher punishment than a warning so that (hopefully) people learn better, not punishment for punishment's sake. I learned my lesson, and I would have learned it on a temp ban, too. To go straight from warning to permaban with "Maybe I'll let you back in a month" seems… vindictive? Unnecessary?

I feel like I'm backed up by the rules on this, which state "Temporary bans are handed out for situations where a single warning may not suffice". That was the case here. The rules also say permabans are issued "to force communication with staff regarding an issue which was left unresolved" and "as a final attempt to curb a player's behaviour, following warnings and temporary bans."

If Mel wanted more or different communication then I'm all for it, let's talk. As is, I don't really know what will change in the requested month before I reappeal? Like I said, I learned my lesson. If there's something else you want me to take away from this experience then I'd kindly ask you to let me know what, instead of leaving me to figure it out. Other than that, the only thing that will change in a month is time, which you may as well just use a temp ban for anyway.

[Garnascus]

The initial ban reason does say "Appeal on the forums when you understand what was being told to you". You attempted to appeal this ban and your appeal was denied. That appeal is of course here 

This appeal is.... lacking in content. I mean the template for your initial post is longer than your own words. You do not need to grovel at the feet of staff but it is on you to convince us you understand what you did wrong and why we should lift the ban. @Melariara seems to feel you where not taking this process with any amount of sincerity and denied your appeal with the stipulation that you can re-appeal in one month. As an outside observer I do agree with her assessment here. Denied permaban appeals are generally given a one month period before they can be re-appealed but this is usually up to the staff member's discretion and not a universal rule. 

[Melariara]

All I have to say is exactly what Garn said. You were denied because your appeal was lacking in words. I tried to prompt more out of you, but ultimately that failed.

[NotASpider]

On 02/06/2022 at 20:26, Garnascus said:

This appeal is.... lacking in content

Was the later appealing in DMs not enough? Like I said I was really uncomfortable talking about it in a forum post because yeah, it absolutely did feel like "grovel on the forums for your future in the server, peasant." Adding to that feeling too was that I wasn't even aware it was a perma ban, I thought it was a temp ban (on account of the very clear punishment rules) with an extra stipulation that I admit I fucked up. Which I did.

I also invited Mel to talk about it privately before the request was even closed, not sure if that's clear in the screencaps, where I would have happily said everything that I said after the request was closed. If the problem is that it was 'off the record', well, it's definitely on the record now in the OP.

On 02/06/2022 at 21:53, Melariara said:

I tried to prompt more out of you

Literally all you did was ask a yes/no question that I answered accordingly. "Do you understand?" Adding 'I'll deny this if you don't elaborate further' would have saved everyone from all this.

Edited June 4, 2022 by NotASpider

[Melariara]

15 minutes ago, NotASpider said:

Was the later appealing in DMs not enough?

Everything you said in DMs should and could have been said in the initial appeal. Its why we have the format there. Its not grovelling, just a simple explanation of what you did wrong and how to improve on it in the future.

[NotASpider]

On 03/06/2022 at 22:50, Melariara said:

just a simple explanation of what you did wrong and how to improve on it in the future.

Which I provided once I realized what was at stake.

Speaking of, why did you perma me, anyway? The next step outlined in the rules is an increasing temp ban, so I did genuinely think that this was just a temp ban with extra steps. Jumping from warning to perma makes it seem like this is personal.

Edited June 5, 2022 by NotASpider

[Roostercat]

Hi. I'm the guy that gave you the initial warning.

On 04/06/2022 at 00:10, NotASpider said:

 

Speaking of, why did you perma me, anyway? The next step outlined in the rules is an increasing temp ban, so I did genuinely think that this was just a temp ban with extra steps. Jumping from warning to perma makes it seem like this is personal.

What kind of punishment you get is largely up to the staff member, it does not HAVE to follow the escalation outlined in the rules under certain circumstances. In this case, you deliberately ignored what I told you, tried to make your self-antag arc canon anyway, and was banned due to being told off about it right before in a warning. You also said "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission" when told you likely wouldn't be given permission to do things like this anyway, which shows us you really don't care much about the rules and were looking for a way to game the escalation system. That is why you were given a permaban. 

In conclusion, you were permabanned because you blatantly ignored a staff ruling.

[NotASpider]

19 hours ago, Roostercat said:

it does not HAVE to follow the escalation outlined in the rules

On 02/06/2022 at 20:26, Garnascus said:

up to the staff member's discretion and not a universal rule

So the rules in the rules section are "rules" when concerning player behaviour, but "guidelines" when concerning mod behaviour? I see.

[Pratepresidenten]

Ill be taking this complaint.

First off I want to correct the tidbit of escalation information floating around here.

The rules does not state that punishment should be done in a specific order. It only tells you what kind of punishments there are. It is up to the individual staffmember to apply punishment as they see fit.

If you are referring to the section under permabans, what is listed there are general cases its applied to, not the only cases.

 

Now for the resolution:

As you said yourself, you thought nothing mattered, rules included as long as good rp came of it. You knew what you did was wrong, but you chose to do it anyway.

Im glad you feel you've learned your lesson, but you also need to face the consequences of your actions. I dont feel the ban is an over-escalation in this case, so it will stay as is.

You're more than welcome to appeal it again on the 2nd of July.

 

Unless there are other issues that needs to be addressed, Im considering this complaint resolved.

[NotASpider]

16 hours ago, Pratepresidenten said:

You're more than welcome to appeal it again on the 2nd of July.

Considering everything mentioned here and in DMs with Mel, what would I need to say differently or need to add on my appeal on the 2nd to have it go through?

Edited June 8, 2022 by NotASpider

[Pratepresidenten]

You just need to elaborate more on your appeal reason, thats about it really.

[NotASpider]

Elaborate how? Was my reasoning in DMs with Mel not elaborative enough? Help me remove some uncertainty from this appeal process, because the punishment for getting it wrong will be another month's wait.

[Pratepresidenten]

Put stuff you said in the DMs into the appeal. Not asking you to write a novel, but elaborate further than "Ill uncanonize it".

[NotASpider]

Alright. If you can guarantee me that the stuff I said in DMs will get me unbanned on the 2nd despite not getting me unbanned in this case, then I guess I'll take it and you can close this out.

[Pratepresidenten]

I can guarantee you nothing. But do your best and Im sure you'll be fine.