Aurora back then, and Aurora now.

[swat43]

This is something that is bothering me, and a lot of regulars here will to, and it is the behavior the community has developed in recent times. You may be wondering and asking, what i am writing about, so i'll be brief and try to be simple as possible.

The community is starting to get more hostile more and more. I don't really, really, really do not know about the others on your thoughts if you noticed it, but lately, when i browse the forum, i see more hate then in-game, since we all have to hide our hatred due to rules. Maybe i am paranoid (which mostly has helped me in most cases i can recall) but, i can't help but notice, that, people will get more 'insulted', agitated, or angered if something doesn't go their way, but that is typical on SS13, nothing ever goes perfectly with out some one getting harmed/not involved. But the most frightening thing that bothers me, once people have had ton of bullshit to deal with (pardon my language), is the aftermath once they flushed their anger towards others. Now this isn't about a small OOC arguments about who has the best skirts in-game, but rather people being angry once they got worked up over somethings that really mattered to them, or it crossed their lines and they are "No, fuck this, and fuck you who did this!".

I love this server for it has brought me a lot more entertaining time then AD13 with their 8 hour extended rounds, nothing happening. I remember the first time i joined, i was a fresh mop to everyone, anyone barely knew me, i acted childish over the time, while i still was improving my character, but the community was what entertained me most, the jokes i liked to read on OOC.

Now, it is a battlefield on where people complain towards each other, not 24/7 but on some special occasions when some one feels really butt-hurt,complains to his rival, and they just grab each other by their throats debating, who shot first and released the singuloth.

What i want to say on this post, is, why are you still playing here, what makes you come here, and what do you think we should do to improve our community to make it more friendlier for us, for new comers, and for those that left the server that we loved/liked most making them know that they still have a second chance here with us and still be a welcome sight back here, at Aurora, our home.

[Chaznoodles]

I know that feeling, man.

Nowadays, I rarely join a round to play, to observe to staff, because of the things you've described. I usually just sit in the lobby and play something else. What needs changed is the attitude of a group of players towards others, as this is a great cause for concern for me. Back in Auldrora, we didn't have these problems, because everyone was part of one big family, and made to feel like it. We invited people in, and it felt like one big clubhouse. Now, if I was a new player, I wouldn't be sticking around, because of the hostility shown often in OOC and the forums, as well as the interactions on the station. We need to change that outlook, and take it back to being a family.

[SgtSammac]

I'm gonna be honest, and this will probably be poorly worded but it's worth a shot.

I feel that.... Recently, the IC AND OOC complaints system is just being abused for anything and everything someone doesn't like, rather than actual, legit problems. This leads to, for example in the case of Bokaza. (Sorry bud, I know we don't speak much but I am on your side), getting nit picked for absolutely everything, leading to people going onto the defensive, because they feel like they are going to be judged for everything.

Heck it's part of the reason I don't play as much, I feel like if I make the slightest step out of line, a complaint is gonna pop up about me. That and I have been working and doing college stuff

In my opinion, I think this attitude then carries over into the other parts of the forums and possibly OOC.

[Frances]

Besides the flak Bokaza caught in two unfortunate incidents, I... haven't really seen any of this.

Provide examples, maybe? Fingerpointing isn't bad if it's used to solve a problem, but I haven't seen people get more hostile than they used to be. Certain people always got heated about certain things, and it doesn't mean that they're being dicks to other people.

[Blue]

The quality of Aurora as a server when I first joined, back when it was shiny and new was tremendous. Mount Olympus level. Then about a year ago it dropped down to below Hades, and I quit. Came back when it was just barely above ground level. Used to love the community, now I just tolerate it. Part of the reason I don't play anymore is because of how toxic the server is. The other part is the direction this server is heading, away from HRP imo.

I've accepted that Aurora will never be as good as it once was, because people will still be massive passive-aggressive cunts to each other, and strangle what it means to heavy roleplay.

[Guest]

Delete my post if I'm out of line here, but I feel the need to post some things that outlined some hostility in the past. Including me, if I manage to find them.

http://www.aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=2036

http://www.aurorastation.org/forums/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=1697

Those two are the worst examples, imo.

And 'just besides' the incidents with Bokaza being caught in a web he didn't even walk into with malice, there are quite a few more incidents that didn't end up as complaints.

I'm not entirely sure what occurred in the past few months. The Winter months were god awful. At best, those were our worst times and I'm glad that period of time has passed.

I'm not sure what's happening, really. The community's seizing the opportunity to shape the state of the server for themselves now, given we have so many people and regulars on at a time. Dead hour is no longer dead hour, it's even shifted to the early morning (or mid-day for europe). Even then, there's possibly at least 30 people online. Half of them are playing, the other half are chair RPing or ghosting and being silly.

I don't consider it awful, it's just out of the norm we were all used to. I can't say I miss the 8 hour long extended rounds either, to be fair.

What I do consider awful is the complaints board... not the fact that it's being used, that in itself is great. But that people are using that as ammunition against people who overcame the complainer in-game and temporarily took them out of the round, or something didn't go the way they wanted it to. In short, it's being abused to fulfill another person's end, to gain some sort of post-round satisfaction out of one fucking round out of a thousand you will play here.

Why do I still play here? For the good roleplayers, of course. I enjoy the fun game mechanics, the community, I enjoy almost every single one of you when you pipe up in OOC. I enjoy holding conversations with most of you, and some of you don't mind dying a horrible yet creative death by my hand.

But then, there are others who I give that same attention. They get upset because, wow, they couldn't do anything about the situation and they got outgunned. There was nothing they could do. Clearly, I broke the rules for not giving them a chance to at least try to outrobust and outsmart me, right?

Right.

This is where I get a bit upset myself... and feel maybe a bit betrayed? Am I paranoid in feeling this, in that seeing people complain for the most inane, in-the-moment things that can just as easily be forgotten in the next week and not give a single shit about? The very same people I enjoy RPing and chatting with and having a fookin' giggle about everything under the fucking sun. We seem to get along so well and yet, we don't. In-game, we're supposedly dapper gentlemen with a hardy friendship. On the forums, we're sworn enemies. We pretend to think as though we're taking into consideration our reasons or thoughts prior to or in the present regarding the actions we take. But we do not. We let petty video games get in the way of forging a healthy and awesome community. And this community is about that bloody petty video game, is it not? Don't let the pettiness of it ruin the community, no?

Why would we do that, when complaining about everything under the sun is so much easier, right?

I'm not sure what to say about the worst of the community. I don't want to acknowledge it because people just get fucking pissy and butthurt over it when it's brought up, thus feeding the flaming beast. I feel like even the staff doesn't want to acknowledge how fucking utterly awful we are sometimes, at least publicly.

I don't think heavy roleplay means what I think it means to people anymore.

[Skull132]

I'm going to throw this up in the air.

I need you people to report butts to us. Point one. On the forums, click the red exclamation mark next to "Quote." Or write to a Moderator/Administrator.

Beyond that. Think of one question, something that I will raise soon in a more official fashion. How much do you want us to police and enforce a demand for respect? Because there are a good few of you who've made it clear that tone policing in a debate is not wanted. And yet, this group of people does want it. Consider this a warm-up.

These things don't improve on their own. The staff will do their part once instructions are decided on in public. But you gentlemen have work to do as well.

[Cassie]

Take a seat, my dear. Long post, don't have to read it all I guess.

This always existed. The carpet has been pulled back and the unvacuumed dirt is still there. The proverbial lynch squad I see getting at Bokaza is a good example of that. You seeee... Bokaza isn't perfect, lemme set that straight. He is a really good guy and still has his flaws imo, but I can honestly pull up tons of player names who have manifested behavior incomparable to his and magnified in destructibility - that are not getting similar character reports. Why? It's dodgy and a bit weird.

Simply put. People are not honest, there is no consistency on what is and isn't allowed and it is lefts to anyone's perception - and it allows bullying via incident reports to happen. It shows certain people to be let off (IE: liked enough by community, friends with certain people, people who others are scared to report in case of drama/metabullying because of their popularity) and certain people to get the fire (IE: people who are new, less popular, or had a fallout with a few in the community someone more popular.)

So! Reason why this sort of system happened.. well, as you described. Aurora happened to be a family in the beginning right? This is a nice way to begin a server, people all tight-knit and close to each other; in the birth of the server everyone is less judgmental of each other, goof and grow and mature as players. Then once they reach a certain level of skill/experience etc, they begin turning their judgmental lens on at new entering people; holding them to higher standards that they have been held themselves. Reason is, they want more seasoned players like themselves, but won't take the cost of hosting new players while doing it.

As a result, this is the first step of server suicide as old players will eventually leave and many new players will either be jaded and leave, or masochistically stay and take shit and eventually become abusers themselves when they get experience. Secondly, because people judge new players so badly, they will not often check the skill level and ability of new players or anyone percieved to be a newbie (such as something as simple as having blue hair). This is bad as not all of them are amateurs and unable to RP - but this does not matter to many as a lot of the existing playerbase already has their friends for consistent RP and do not feel the need to extend their circle 90% of the time.

The new playerbase, either consistent of new players, experienced RP'ers, and griefers are left cut off from the community and do their own thing. New players might get hated on. Experienced new players might get angry and lash out at the cold/hostile atmosphere of the server caused by people who have carefully planned out their RP for the round and don't want interrupters. Despite the fact that Aurora can hit 50+ players at peak time, the server can feel like a barren ghostland when you have no one to clique to, enforcing even more... cliques because once you find an RP buddy who isn't locked up in some department you wanna keep them forever. Griefers just fuck things up for all sides and provoke sec to be more hostile but are ignoreable (and frankly, should be dealt with by admins) and some of them are scorned players coming back as troublesome ghouls, to be honest.

In the end, some of the older players who existed within the tight knit community may welcome newer players. I also strongly believe that if you see your friends doing something wrong to people while RP'ing that might have escalated to an OOC level you shouldn't be afraid to call them out on it, making abuse less acceptable; making affirmative steps to do inter-community healing instead of waiting for the situation to escalate. Dedicate some rounds to chair RP, but allow you and your character to be spontaneous and find new people sometimes. Don't fear new people, even the ones who can't RP, even if you don't want to RP with them just be chill. As the clash between new and old, I think the old RP'ers fear change quite a bit, maybe to a contrary level; that's no good eh?

Any questions?

[Guest]

Honestly, I'm surprised I haven't had player complaints made about me or even incident reports, because I know a lot of my behaviour can be considered sub-par, because I'm really far from perfect, I'd go as far as saying I'm probably the worst Head of Staff player we have. And I don't even really have friends here because I'm not a likeable person So people are just not making complaints because they're lazy, not because of favouritism.

One of the few friends I do have here is Jackboot, I'm not even sure how I became friends with the guy. But I like em', and he likes me, but I call him out all the time on things I think are questionable, and I'd expect him to do the same. (And he does)

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

I don't think there's ever been a period where people haven't been looking through their rose tinted glasses at how things "used to be".

We've always had friendly people, and always had butts. We just have more vocal butts now and everyone's taking things personally now. I've had so many long winded tirades directed at me after every big lore decision I've made.

Just relax, people.

EDIT:

O-Oh! Xander-senpai noticed me this entire time???

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Why am I playing here:What other choice do I have? That and I generally don't notice any hostility or passive aggressiveness around.

Everything else:

Don't be dicks that all I can say,

[Dea Tacita]

I generally don't notice any hostility or passive aggressiveness around.

 

I notice Hostility and passive-aggressiveness, from both sides of the argument about "The community is toxic" but I just tend to chalk it up to y'know...people being people. I don't expect people to stop being people because we'd love it if they did.

 

Don't be dicks that all I can say

 

Yeah, this needs to be a guideline for everyone, not just on SS-13.

[Frances]

I actually quite like the post that Cass has made. It's a good summary of the problem of small communities turning big. And when looking at any big forum or gaming group, there's always an eventual shift when things become very impersonal, staff are there to enforce the rules, and players are left to their own devices in small subgroups, with a completely uncontrollable "general sentiment". We'll never make it to such an extreme as having a community where most regulars don't know each other (because SS13 is small), but...

We've gotten a lot bigger than we were a year ago. I can't deny that.

When I first joined Aurora, I'd post art (heh, the old lobby screen), and I'd see the same 5-6 people commenting on it. These people were admins, lore writers, mappers, etc. There was really a smaller team of people, and I think it made issues easier to deal with, because you always felt like you were trying to deal with a specific person.

Now, there's a ton of people that I don't even know. And when a problem comes up, you're not dealing with a specific person anymore. You're dealing with "someone". And that someone is going against "the rules", whatever a certain part of the community thinks should or should not be a certain way.

What's the solution to that? I don't know. There isn't one to bring back the "tight-knit" feeling of the community, because we have numbers. If you want a smaller server, well, I would honestly recommend starting your own. 24/7 extended? Heck, why not. It could work.

But something that I think is important (that Cass highlighted) is that there are no set guidelines on how a lot of things should be (because we're so used to taking decisions together as a small community), and this is bad. Because literally any kind of shit can either fly or not fly at all, simply depending on which specific group of people you end up encountering on a given day.

It's not super terribly bad. The general direction the server seems to be headed (more action, relaxed, but still serious RP standards) is something most people agree on. But I'm starting to think we should understand that it's becoming very hard to get a good consensus from all players as we grow bigger and bigger, and we need to rely on and trust our staff more.

[Guest]

This concerns me given that I'm still showing interest in the moderator position.

How can the staff adapt their modus operandi to the size and growth of the community? As well as the community itself developing its own tastes and guidelines on what RP is.

Basically, I have no clue how to act from here. Which is the issue. I think we got a bit too big, and as a result the staff has a lot on their plate.

Now what? Is what I'm asking.

[Frances]

We can't please everyone. We simply need to lock down a direction, and for the sake of fairness, I would say the staff's responsibility is to stick as closely as they can to the original plan of what we promised Aurora to be.

It's better to offer a clear and stable service than one constantly trying to change and adapt to what will end up being nothing but the most vocal group of people, in the end.

[Jakers457]

I've found if I post a thread on a topic I want to discuss, I usually have to leave it until the fire cools off, which I don't like. Perhaps I'm too blunt with my delivery but I don't try to attack anyone though it seems I'm offending someone no matter what.

I left awhile back because I didn't like how heated things got and there were posts like the Flat Society where I thought it was harmless but apparently it seemed to have caused anger. I also posted a couple of angry threads back then, which I didn't find pleasant either. I came back though, I accepted that the heat is just part of the community.

Though honestly I'm not entirely sure in the point I'm trying to put across.

[Guest]

We can't please everyone. We simply need to lock down a direction, and for the sake of fairness, I would say the staff's responsibility is to stick as closely as they can to the original plan of what we promised Aurora to be.

It's better to offer a clear and stable service than one constantly trying to change and adapt to what will end up being nothing but the most vocal group of people, in the end.

 

I think that's fair, to be honest. Keep to the code.

You know, I think we've always been that fugitive server. We first had people from Apollo, then traces of people from elsewhere, then from Hypatia, Baystation... I dunno, we've mostly been the haven from the other places for some people. For others? Eh, they don't think they fit, so they move on.

[Frances]

You know, I think we've always been that fugitive server. We first had people from Apollo, then traces of people from elsewhere, then from Hypatia, Baystation... I dunno, we've mostly been the haven from the other places for some people. For others? Eh, they don't think they fit, so they move on.

Servers come and go, and I don't think any server will become popular exclusively through new players stumbling upon it on their first day playing SS13. This is perfectly expected imo. Even Bay got their original population by splitting from /tg/.