Sensor Changes, Three Weeks On

[La Villa Strangiato]

As you may have heard, a change has been merged where suit sensors are a) locked to alert level and b) locked to "uniforms" only. I air-quote "uniforms", because not all uniforms that are present in the loadout have suit sensors, and only on-spawn uniforms receive them.

As someone who mains medical, I'd like to discuss what these changes contribute to the gameplay loop, what they make worse or more unfun, and include some comments from other medical players about what could be kept, and what could be reverted.

Code-Locked Suit Sensors

I don't really have a problem with code-locking suit sensors. It makes sense along the same lines as cameras being locked to alert levels, from a "personal privacy" standpoint. One thing I have noticed, however, is that code red tends to be jumped to much easier ever since this change.

One of the major problems with code-locking sensors ends up being simplemobs. Maintenance drones, while not especially common, become a good deal more deadly to a hapless janitor or engineer that happens to stumble across a group of them. If a first responder isn't actively patrolling maintenance looking for someone who could have theoretically been downed, a knocked-out and bleeding player can just die in maintenance and not have been found for the entire round.

It's easy to circumvent these in a few ways; wearing a voidsuit as an engineer and going in search for drones helps mitigate damage a lot, and simply being cautious is also a good way to avoid dying. But everyone makes mistakes, and when drones can be hard to hit owing to a small hitbox or lag, it can make dying alone in maintenance that much more frustrating.

Uniform-Only Suit Sensors

To me, this is the part of the change that makes the least sense. No department but security is required to specifically wear a uniform; even then, the uniform that security wears is fairly flexible, and can range from the default corpo uniform to a button-down shirt and slacks plus tie. Here, I asked the CCIA head, Bear, about what can qualify as a uniform.
 

Quote

 

the strange house — Today at 17:13

i must prod you about security uniform regs

are you allowed to wear like, a button-down shirt and slacks as HOS or officer, for example

Bear — Today at 17:17

yes

Those would be business casual

 

Being candid, I don't know any regular player who actually likes the default uniforms that you spawn with. For the most part, they're kind of ugly from a style standpoint (they're functional from a spriting standpoint), and they just don't fit every character in terms of aesthetics. I don't understand why "I don't want my character to potentially be more vulnerable just because I wanted to customize their fit" is a controversial take. This is a high-roleplay server, and we have a large, expansive loadout with a variety of customization options for a reason.

A lot of the uniforms that are present in the loadout, as well, don't have sensors added to them. While this is clearly an oversight, there are a lot of uniforms. It's a little disappointing that all of the uniforms in the loadout weren't counted, or even thought of, when this change was made (though it's understandable, because again, a lot of uniforms). And again, this raises the question of "what qualifies as a uniform".

This is particularly relevant when it comes to not having sensors on consulars. Consuls are valued diplomats to nations that have vested interests in the Horizon project. Why would they not have sensors on them, to ensure their safety aboard a spaceship?

I could go on, particularly on the points of "some uniforms look really bad on certain species", but I think the point has been hammered in.

Device Restrictions

I have something of an axe to grind with this, mostly because it doesn't really do what I guess the intent was to do; stop people from staring at the sensors program 24/7. Well, it does, but the result is that nobody is keeping an eye on the sensors at all, for two reasons:

1. On green or blue, nobody can see locations anyway.

2. Code red is an all-hands-on-deck situation. Nobody, sometimes not even the pharmacist, has time to be watching sensors for any new pulse spikes.

I decided to gather some opinions from two other first responder players, CoolSortieBro and Ramke, on how it can be to respond without easy access to sensors.

Quote

I will say every call for medical was followed with a request for location
and absolutely no response
I’ll also say it felt like everyone just expected me to be able to find the patient
No one was polling the radio for a position or checking the console in the box for their current condition
I was basically on my own trying to find them
I think code locking sensors is whatever
Pulling them from the PDA is a pain because it forces someone to sit in the box and watch them when everything goes sideways
The time when you need all hands on deck

Quote

the changes have done the following:
FRs are slower to respond (no location until someone shouts it, speed slowdown & increased stamina hit from hardsuit if they're using it)
organising mass-trauma patients is much harder (I've had people die off-screen because I just stop at someone injured now, and don't know that there's a bigger priority just off the screen for me)
suit sensors are essentially non-existant - they don't matter during green/blue, and during red nobody's attending the console (both because nobody wants to I imagine, and they're busy with patients)

Someone's response to this might be that it is good that nobody is as glued to sensors as they were before, which is half-correct. But the biggest problem with an FR not being able to readily access sensors on code blue or code red is that they can't partake in their gameplay loop the same way they could before. When I am an FR, going and finding people who get injured and bringing them back is the fun part about playing FR. Having to scour half the ship for someone's slowly declining vitals? Not fun.

TL;DR

Code-locking suit sensors is fine. Uniform-locking suit sensors is really not good. Device-locking sensors is really bothersome and throws a wrench into first responder gameplay. Also, re-add toggling sensors with alt-click.

Anyway, please be nice on this thread. This is ultimately my opinion as a medical regular, and it stands to reason that whatever your opinion on the matter is, we shouldn't accuse each other of toxicity or going behind the other's back to screw someone else over.

[SilverSZ]

Hi.

I'm not going to comment on Code-locking or Device-locking as I think LVS is correct on Code-locking being entirely fine and I don't play medical at all currently so I have no opinions on Device-locking as it's not something I've experienced at all.

But. I really think that Uniform-locking is a detrimental feature and should be reverted. People want to make outfits that look nice for their characters and I don't think they should be punished for that if they're sticking within the established uniform rules we have. As it stands none of my security characters, a HoS, Investigator or Warden have suit sensors with the current changes because I do not like how the uniform sprites look and want to do more with the loadout options we have. 

I think that Code-locking is enough of a nerf to sensors that Uniform-locking isn't required as a thing from a gameplay perspective. The other argument I've seen for uniform-locking sensors is to encourage people to use the existing uniforms for more of a unified aesthetic but I think if this is a desired thing then a change to the regulations around uniforms should be the way to go rather than just punishing people who are sticking within the established rules and regulations anyway.

Either way. I personally also don't think the uniform-locking, as someone who isn't a medical regular, is that big of a deal. I'll keep using outfits without sensors because they look nicer and fit my characters better for me. But I would like to see it reverted if possible just because I dislike the idea of punishing players for wanting to customize within the rules anyway.

[Codename: Bear]

Personally I think sensors should be a player choice and if they are not a player choice on all things players should be allowed to get a loadout item they can sync with medical/security to help find them.

[Acetrea]

As a medical main (though not First Responder) I agree with SilverSZ about Uniform-locking being detrimental and overall feels like a punishment for customizing your character. It may just be me, but being dead without anyone on the ship being aware is not fun (and neither is an ugly character outfit).

I think that the code-locking is fine for nerfing purposes, though seeing the location on blue would be a nice change. Before and after this change I can count multiple instances where someone's vitals dropped on sensors but has no location. The worst feeling ever is running through the ship and not finding this dying person because it is impossible to check everywhere without the entire manifest helping. It makes you not want to even attempt to look around because the chances of actually finding someone who is dying with no location are slim to none. I think a good change could be if someone has dropping vitals (enough for the sensors to turn yellow/orange) and there is a simplemob event occuring, their location automatically turns on (if they have that vitals option selected). So then privacy remains intact until you drop to "low" blood oxygenation, low blood pressure, or high/low BPM. I believe any rational person would throw away their locational/vital privacy when they are in danger of dying.

On device-locking, I think it has caused people to not watch sensors at all. Like said above by others, once the code hits red, it's go time. A solution for this without totally reverting it could be to allow the program on Medical's PDAs when we are in code red.

Overall, I understand where this PR comes from but it needs some serious revision. I believe it makes suit sensors nearly obsolete when they are needed to reliably save people.

[Star Dust]

8 hours ago, La Villa Strangiato said:

Code-Locked Suit Sensors

 

I don't really have a problem with code-locking suit sensors. It makes sense along the same lines as cameras being locked to alert levels, from a "personal privacy" standpoint. One thing I have noticed, however, is that code red tends to be jumped to much easier ever since this change.

One of the major problems with code-locking sensors ends up being simplemobs. Maintenance drones, while not especially common, become a good deal more deadly to a hapless janitor or engineer that happens to stumble across a group of them. If a first responder isn't actively patrolling maintenance looking for someone who could have theoretically been downed, a knocked-out and bleeding player can just die in maintenance and not have been found for the entire round.

It's easy to circumvent these in a few ways; wearing a voidsuit as an engineer and going in search for drones helps mitigate damage a lot, and simply being cautious is also a good way to avoid dying. But everyone makes mistakes, and when drones can be hard to hit owing to a small hitbox or lag, it can make dying alone in maintenance that much more frustrating.

You bring up the point of personal privacy, you know you can just turn them off? Literally all it takes it turning it off. It makes absolutely NO sense for them to be code locked, like at all. In all my time of playing medical no one has ever forced me, nor did I ever see anyone be forced to look at suit sensors, literally never. I watched suit sensors willingly, and if I was outside of medical I just had my PDA in hand checking out suit sensors there. Code locking them has been the biggest step back I've seen this server take in the name of 'balance' when said balance was already achieved for antags already in the form of radio jammers, para-pens, and simply just ripping out your victims suit sensors. The code locking needs to be removed completely, because it just adds a whole lot of needless, unfun stress. I have seen it get people killed needlessly because they got downed so quickly by a simplemob they couldn't call for help. The ship spent five minutes running around searching for him, but since the ship is so massive, it took forever. This did not ease the stress for players, it did not improve roleplay, it did not add anything outside kicking someone out of the round only thirty minutes in.

I will stand and die on this hill, remove code locking, absolutely completely remove it and bury it.

Edited December 25, 2023 by Star Dust

[Star Dust]

4 hours ago, Acetrea said:

As a medical main (though not First Responder) I agree with SilverSZ about Uniform-locking being detrimental and overall feels like a punishment for customizing your character. It may just be me, but being dead without anyone on the ship being aware is not fun (and neither is an ugly character outfit).

I think that the code-locking is fine for nerfing purposes, though seeing the location on blue would be a nice change. Before and after this change I can count multiple instances where someone's vitals dropped on sensors but has no location. The worst feeling ever is running through the ship and not finding this dying person because it is impossible to check everywhere without the entire manifest helping. It makes you not want to even attempt to look around because the chances of actually finding someone who is dying with no location are slim to none. I think a good change could be if someone has dropping vitals (enough for the sensors to turn yellow/orange) and there is a simplemob event occuring, their location automatically turns on (if they have that vitals option selected). So then privacy remains intact until you drop to "low" blood oxygenation, low blood pressure, or high/low BPM. I believe any rational person would throw away their locational/vital privacy when they are in danger of dying.

On device-locking, I think it has caused people to not watch sensors at all. Like said above by others, once the code hits red, it's go time. A solution for this without totally reverting it could be to allow the program on Medical's PDAs when we are in code red.

Overall, I understand where this PR comes from but it needs some serious revision. I believe it makes suit sensors nearly obsolete when they are needed to reliably save people.

The nerf is not needed, literally not needed. Antags already have multiple ways of dealing with suit sensors.

[Arrow768]

If you wish to provide feedback do it in the already existing topics in the suggestion forum.

Creating yet another feedback topic is not helpful.
Therefore I am binning this topic.