A few thoughts and ideas.

[JamesCampbell]

I'm just here to say how strangely happy I am with how the server is moving forward at this point.

However, there are a few things that I have to say.

"Nepotism

There still seems to be a high volume of nepotism on the server. The situations where an outsider is in a situation and I'd often times, "more qualified" and wants to get involved, but it is handed over to another more familiar player. Over the past few weeks I've seen an improvement in people receiving less common jobs, but after timpresent each of the heads, plus time on the forums I've understood why people want and get these jobs. The point I'm making with this is the "closed" community feel (more on that below) that is present on the server needs to be opened up. Without making things personal, there have been times where I come online, I say hello, and try to start conversation, and am ignored. A few moments later another person comes online and does the same thing, with a friendly response. I just feel that although some of us are just as validated on the server, we are not included in a lot of the more involved RP scenarios.

Non-RP RP

Several times over the last few weeks I've been either a witness or heard about it ooc. Its the lack of RP in a combat scenario, with people just being killed and not knowing why. I know this happens irl and is often a massive tragedy, but it needs to be curtailed on the server more. Antags need to managed with proper control.

"Closed" Community

Sometimes, trying to be noticed by this community is a lot harder than one might think. I've been playing on Aurora for over a year now, with some breaks, and sometimes I'm still treated like a new player. On the forums, my posts are ignored, and people who apply for things after me, are put forward with mine left by the wayside. I'm not saying "What about me?!" I'm just outlining what a lot of newer players might feel. Not dissimilar from the Nepotism up above, the lack of response to some newer players, might leave them wondering wht they have to do to get noticed. I speak from experience. I had to try and impress people IC, and get things moving and shaking myself to get my voice even heard, but still I'm pushed by the wayside, or ignored if someone else more familiar is present. Other people will feel the same way.

Disclaimer: This is not a post to scream "LOOK AT ME PLEASE, PLEASE VALIDATE ME!!" This is to maybe provide feedback from a lower down member in the community, to show how hard t is to break the mould and get into the "circle of trust" in Aurora. I'm very happy, as stated above, with the server, just a few observations. Feel free to give feedback too, or anything you may add, or disagree with, I absolutely welcome it.

[Skull132]

I wanted to say something. But I deleted my reply. I'll get around to rephrasing it tomorrow or the day after. It was mostly concerning the second point, as that's the only thing I can actively control.

[Guest]

I just feel that although some of us are just as validated on the server, we are not included in a lot of the more involved RP scenarios.

 

You cant force people to roleplay with you.

Technically you can but it just comes out wrong and unenjoyable for the other side. I dont mean this as a criticism of your point, or an attack. It's just how things seem to be, unfortunately.

I have been trying to hunt down new faces in droves these few days, trying to get them entertained. However, I usually interact with one or two people at a time, leaving others out. There's just a limit to how much characters can be in one room before text become too much of a clusterfuck to navigate through properly.

There are new/unknown faces much like yourself who have trouble socializing when surrounded by our established cliques, they're also good at roleplay, or rapidly learning. You just have to look for them to find them, I encourage you to try. Dont be afraid to leave your character's department, especially if you're playing in research or cargo.

As for the established cliques, I have a plea.

Dont take over the bar, please.

The bar functions as a perfect Arpee hub, for characters and players not acquainted with people/characters on the server. If your clique sits by the counter and akwardly ignores anyone else who comes inside to arpee, you're bound to make them feel pretty bad.

If you could take your arpee to the nearby arcade, or the smoking area nobody uses for smoking, or even down by one of the bar tables, instead of by the bar counter, that'd be helpful.

[Guest]

I'm a long time player, but I still get ignored on the forums. It's what you get when you're not loud enough. Generally speaking, your issue is not that you're not new, but you still don't get how stuff works on this server. Older players know what will make them stand out and why I don't have much issues socializing or getting along with other players even when I make a new character.

As for the antag stuff, pretty much everyone agrees with you that people who do that are shit, but I'll put an emphases on something; I don't want someone to talk to my character before killing them, I want my character's death to have some meaning, to be a cog in the story that round. This is what separates gank from RP, in my opinion. This is also why I dislike powergaming most of all, because playing to win not a method, it's a goal.

[Jamini]

"Nepotism"

There still seems to be a high volume of nepotism on the server. The situations where an outsider is in a situation and I'd often times, "more qualified" and wants to get involved, but it is handed over to another more familiar player. Over the past few weeks I've seen an improvement in people receiving less common jobs, but after timpresent each of the heads, plus time on the forums I've understood why people want and get these jobs. The point I'm making with this is the "closed" community feel (more on that below) that is present on the server needs to be opened up. Without making things personal, there have been times where I come online, I say hello, and try to start conversation, and am ignored. A few moments later another person comes online and does the same thing, with a friendly response. I just feel that although some of us are just as validated on the server, we are not included in a lot of the more involved RP scenarios.

 

I will not deny that I occasionally will indulge in this. Though I do try not too as a rule, there are a handful (one or two) players that I do occasionally allow more than I should.

The main crux of this issue is simple however, people generally do not want to give out power or authority to someone and then have said person turn around and immediately abuse it. Absolutely nothing is worse than giving extra authority or access to a person only to discover they are OOCly incapable of handling said authority or access. Unfortunately for everyone, it is very easy to place skills in your employment records that you may simply put, not possess or be exceedingly poor at. There are multiple instances of this happening in the past even, where a head of staff used an employment record of an employee, only to find said employee is incapable in the roles listed.

For example:

I have heard a story of a nurse, fairly recently, that had listed skills in the following in medical:

-General medicine

-Genetics cloning

-Basic chemistry

-Surgery

Skill set issues aside, the CMO on-duty at the time permitted this unknown, but supposedly qualified nurse, additional access to help out in medbay. Essentially making her into a senior doctor.

This nurse proceeded to accidentally kill four people in various ways, mishandled cryo twice, and ignored CMD regulations (which was a thing at the time) to tell someone they were cloned directly. Resulting in a suicide

As a result of allowing someone with the "skills" to handle something ICly, but not OOCly, this person removed several players from the round and caused another to kill themselves.

Cases like this are not uncommon. Especially in atmospherics, xenobiology, and medical.

The only way to really know if a character, or player, is able to fill a role is to know them and be familiar with them. In a sense, you need to know if the player can handle themselves in a role before simply letting them go.

I personally routinely ask for temporary chemistry access on my EMT, and there are a handful of characters that my CE will permit to act as a Senior engineer (engineering+atmospherics). Those characters are few and far between, as ICly and OOCly I simply will not trust someone to perform duties beyond their initial skill set without proof of ability and trust inherent with working together. For most players, this sort of trust takes only a handful of rounds.

 

Non-RP RP

Several times over the last few weeks I've been either a witness or heard about it ooc. Its the lack of RP in a combat scenario, with people just being killed and not knowing why. I know this happens irl and is often a massive tragedy, but it needs to be curtailed on the server more. Antags need to managed with proper control.

 

In combat, you cannot know if the other person is going to legitimately respect your RP or not. There is role-play in action, like it or not, and you will not always get a mustache-twirling monologue every time you die. Sometimes, even often, an antagonist needs to act quickly and decisively when attacking another person to avoid situations where they are guaranteed to be removed from the board as a player.

I will reference an incident last night for this, which is still not wholly resolved.

Last night, as a changling, I borderline ganked Centurion. Myself and Henji had mowed him down nearly wordlessly, and from the outside it would appear to be a non-RP death.

Was it unfair? Possibly. But allow me to explain my reasoning for opening fire rather than talking.

1. Both myself and Mu (Henji), had already been compromised several times during the shift. I had already been captured once, and we had killed and taken the identity of the officer who arrested me while centurion was not on-station.

2. Both Mu and myself were aware that Centurion was immune to our abilities, most of our weapons, and was armed with at least a carbine. Which, during the shootout, he did pull out and shoot me with in the chest.

3. Our intent was to lure Centurion away from the warden's desk (a position he had been reassigned to), and into the permabrig to kill him. Possibly with a short monologue. However, Cake was moving quite a bit and was difficult to pin down with words.

4. While we were trying to talk to him, Centurion found the body of the officer who's identity I had stolen

5. Ultimately, while I do regret shooting him wordlessly in retrospect, I stand by the decision I made in haste. We had openly intended to target him, and he was an armed threat with reason to know both myself and Mu were hostiles.

6. In the grand scheme of the round, his death did create RP. Shortly after both of us had to dispose of a pair of witnesses who had come to investigate the gunshots. It was only by intimidation, a very fast trigger finger, and a bit of luck that we managed to silence (and consume) both witnesses.

 

"Closed" Community

Sometimes, trying to be noticed by this community is a lot harder than one might think. I've been playing on Aurora for over a year now, with some breaks, and sometimes I'm still treated like a new player. On the forums, my posts are ignored, and people who apply for things after me, are put forward with mine left by the wayside. I'm not saying "What about me?!" I'm just outlining what a lot of newer players might feel. Not dissimilar from the Nepotism up above, the lack of response to some newer players, might leave them wondering wht they have to do to get noticed. I speak from experience. I had to try and impress people IC, and get things moving and shaking myself to get my voice even heard, but still I'm pushed by the wayside, or ignored if someone else more familiar is present. Other people will feel the same way.

 

I've made it a personal mission of mine to try and get new players involved on the server. But it can be very difficult to do so when experienced or well-known players begin to speak up or act.

The best option, honestly, is to encourage everyone to be more open and forthright with new and unfamilier players. It's hard, but a necessary thing.

Humorously though, part of it is indeed personality. Sometimes as a new or unknown player/character, you need to do things that will get you noticed. I can personally say that I rarely get ignored when I play my lesser-known characters, as I'm very good at integrating myself with the round. The "closed community" thing goes both ways, a new player needs to speak up, be heard, and bug the experienced. Don't be afraid to be loud! You only get as much attention as you draw to yourself.

Edit:

Oh also, Xeno players? DON'T BE DICKS AND USE :j ;o or :k ALL THE TIME. SERIOUSLY. WE ALL DO IT, AND IT NEEDS TO BE CUT DOWN A BIT OKAY?

[nanotoxin]

Oh also, Xeno players? DON'T BE DICKS AND USE :j ;o or :k ALL THE TIME. SERIOUSLY. WE ALL DO IT, AND IT NEEDS TO BE CUT DOWN A BIT OKAY?

 

who even does that like does anyone even actually do that i can't say for certain i've ever seen anyone do that.

[attachment=0]hotrod.gif[/attachment]

[Tainavaa]

I really hate the native language abuse. You're just completely exiling everyone else. It's very annoying.

Yet on the same note, on a complaint about a closed community and cliques, all I have to say is: Oh well.

And on not liking action-RP, as someone who is tired of so much action and just wants some chair RP, all I have to say is: Oh well.

EDIT: I also should mention the fact that I dislike the nepotism as well. It's annoying.

[nanotoxin]

Nine times out of ten, I find at least, if someone is speaking their native tongue they're either:

A. Trash talking the species beside them that doesn't know said language

or

B. Alone with just that specie

I don't really think this is the biggest problem if a problem at all. You can't tell people how to roleplay their characters. If they don't want to be inclusive that's their prerogative and they'll miss out on the RP with the person. Sure you can say "why dont you people make characters that /are/ inclusive." People already have. There are plenty more people who aren't commited to a "clique" than there are actually in one. The biggest problem I think the server has, is people picking antag, but not knowing how to do so. I'm not sure if there's some way we can confirm that someone is capable of antaging, such as whitelisting it, or what. That's my two cents though

Bottom line, you can tell people not to be dicks and stick with their characters native tongue, they don't have to listen mind you, but it's dickish to tell people how to roleplay their characters.

*edit* don't get me wrong, I'm all for including new players. Just the whole, trying to tell people to change their characters doesn't sit well with me

[Jamini]

Nine times out of ten, I find at least, if someone is speaking their native tongue they're either:

A. Trash talking the species beside them that doesn't know said language

or

B. Alone with just that specie

 

 

As a long time Taj player, both here and on bay, I can outright say this isn't true. There is quite a lot of stuff said over :j and ;o that could simply have been said in :0

[nanotoxin]

I find at least

 

This is from what I've seen. My character almost only hangs around with Taj for IC reasons, so for that reason, I've seen a lot of other Taj players, Focks, Neb, Demon, Jackboot, Sierra, Nightmare etc. More often than not, they will ask me to stop speaking Siik'mas so that the humans can be included. They mostly follow those two things I had put up.

 

As a long time Taj player, both here and on bay, I can outright say this isn't true. There is quite a lot of stuff said over :j and ;o that could simply have been said in :0

 

Perhaps this is just you doing this and it was irrelevant for you to bring up the point.

[Frances]

The main crux of this issue is simple however, people generally do not want to give out power or authority to someone and then have said person turn around and immediately abuse it. Absolutely nothing is worse than giving extra authority or access to a person only to discover they are OOCly incapable of handling said authority or access. Unfortunately for everyone, it is very easy to place skills in your employment records that you may simply put, not possess or be exceedingly poor at. There are multiple instances of this happening in the past even, where a head of staff used an employment record of an employee, only to find said employee is incapable in the roles listed.

From my point of view, denying someone extra responsibilities under the sole basis that you don't know them OOCly is kinda... against the spirit of the game, and very meta. Of course, you should use common sense - look at records, and don't promote snowflake characters like in the example above (nurse under 30 competent in everything? Pssh, sure, Odin probably messed up their records again or that person is trying to trick you. Fax CC and send an ahelp.)

Otherwise, I'd just promote whoever has decent records, unless they're acting very suspiciously. Like, yes, they might be terrible, and once you know they are, don't give them anything. But you shouldn't assume they might be and deny them based solely on that, because that's super frustrating for any player to have to face. This also leads to situations where ICly under-qualified people are picked over superiors for one task because the people in charge have metaknowledge about that particular player. Records are supposed to mean something, and players should be responsible to know how many qualifications they can take on themselves.

Yes, terrible doctors (that's just one example) might be a bit of a pain OOCly, but they can be removed fairly easily. Not to mention they can lead to hilarious situations, and general bring more life to the round's narrative, as long as they're not a persistent occurrence.

[Jamini]

Yes, terrible doctors (that's just one example) might be a bit of a pain OOCly, but they can be removed fairly easily.

 

I'm sorry Frances, but this is just 100% incorrect.

It is easy to give access, and very hard to take it away.

 

From my point of view, denying someone extra responsibilities under the sole basis that you don't know them OOCly is kinda... against the spirit of the game, and very meta.

 

The spirit of the game is survival in space and the fear that anyone can be a traitor. Extra access, and the refusal thereof, does not factor into that. Considering aurora has very, very strict requirements for most jobs ICly I would argue that the exact opposite is true. Giving additional access without a very, very good reason is something that should not as a rule be done.

I do not and will not give access to people unless I have extensive proof that they will not go and abuse their access. Especially considering how difficult it is to reduce or remove access. If you want to fill a role, you should join as said role. If someone took your slot, tough luck. If you latejoined... well you latejoined. Take what you can.

[Cargo Bob]

I know I'm fairly new (Been playing only about a month and a half now? I think? Somewhere around that.) and so whatever I say doesn't carry much weight.. which I completely understand. I just feel like I need to get something off my chest, because it's something that bothered me with a recent round.

 

Non-RP RP

Several times over the last few weeks I've been either a witness or heard about it ooc. Its the lack of RP in a combat scenario, with people just being killed and not knowing why. I know this happens irl and is often a massive tragedy, but it needs to be curtailed on the server more. Antags need to managed with proper control.

 

2ND POINT: Several people in this very thread (no names, i'm not that kind of guy) were in the game this morning when some pretty serious meta/power gaming went down..and was admitted as such even in OOC as a "Well everyone else does it as antag, so fuck it". There was little to no one refuting them either, which I think dismayed me the most. I mean, yeah it sucks when people do it, but ever heard of that saying two wrongs do not make a right? I even had a brief LOOC conversation with the one player where they told me "If you come in here I'm going to powergame the fuck outta you, just sayin" and acted like it was a favor that they were warning me. I responded I wasn't here for that, I was here to RP. I guess they were just pissed because something happened earlier and they were now blowing off steam, they was a veteran player I've seen plenty of times doing quality RP and it just didn't feel right to Ahelp it or argue. But then the OOC chat blew up into a discussion of how it's basically the norm and everyone seemed so....resigned to it. Like.. oh well, this is how it is, might as well go with it.

If that's your attitude, it's sad. Especially if you are a veteran player, with time invested and relationships you've developed. I can't be the only one that feels like this.

Sorry for the rant, but this seemed like the right place for it.

As for the other points, I get it. I do. Even in my short time here i'm seeing my interactions and relationships with other players go up steadily, so I know it just takes time. That's all. Just like when you start a new school, there are cliches already established, some kids are more popular than others, and then there is you.. a nobody, yet. It takes time to build relationships and to get to the level where people will start to prefer you, actively seek you out, or just trust you in general because they know you can handle yourself. Hell, I'm not even whitelisted and I was given the Research Director role one round and it all just..worked out. Really well in my opinion. I know the game and how to play it, the hardest part is connecting with others and that's something that...as i've beaten into the damn ground by now...takes time.

[Frances]

Well, to which extent do we want to force characters to be "ICly friendly"?

There are some ideas I agree with, such as the bar being a recognized hub for meeting new people, but keep in mind cliques are to an extent part of regular office life. Trying to get people of another culture/species to stop speaking their language in public over an OOC concern might be a bit excessive.

[Jamini]

Well, to which extent do we want to force characters to be "ICly friendly"?

There are some ideas I agree with, such as the bar being a recognized hub for meeting new people, but keep in mind cliques are to an extent part of regular office life. Trying to get people of another culture/species to stop speaking their language in public over an OOC concern might be a bit excessive.

 

For one, cracking down on "No species language over comms" is a good start. I still adore the change, but people who abuse such privileges/abilities should also be subject to repercussions for such actions. Mind, I am saying directly as someone who fairly consistently plays as a species that does such.

Encouraging people to stick to Tau Basic in public areas, much like we encourage people not to play deaf/mutes. Public areas are just that: Public. We, as players, need to keep in mind that a worker who intentionally and consistently uses their own language to badmouth their boss would probably lose their job once said boss finds out. Doubly so when one remembers that the telecomms logs translate what is said! (And that the AI/synehtics can translate, as can pAIs) Going too ham with a language that isn't standard is shaky ground to tread, and people need to be reminded of that occasionally by their bosses and co-workers.

Edited May 17, 2015 by Guest

[Frances]

much like we encourage people not to play deaf/mutes.

Not to nitpick, but, wat?

Basic-only on comms/when working makes sense - it's a reasonable rule OOCly, and makes sense ICly as tons of workplaces have language restrictions (for the same reasons, to facilitate communication and integration).

But OOCly encouraging people not to play deaf/mutes would be like asking them not to play introverted/antisocial characters because they're harder for others to approach. Doesn't that fall into excessive character policing?

[Jamini]

But OOCly encouraging people not to play deaf/mutes would be like asking them not to play introverted/antisocial characters because they're harder for others to approach. Doesn't that fall into excessive character policing?

 

Except such things have indeed happened. In fact, I've seen at least two mute/deaf characters be required to revise their characters to date. One of whom, a skrell, I haven't seen much of at all lately.

[Frances]

Except such things have indeed happened. In fact, I've seen at least two mute/deaf characters be required to revise their characters to date. One of whom, a skrell, I haven't seen much of at all lately.

It depends on the reasons. The only deaf/mute retcons I've seen (that I can get behind, as well) are the ones where a deaf/mute character holding the title they were holding (sec officer, doctor/surgeon, etc) made little to no effective sense ICly.

Also adding that I fully agree with Cargo Bob's post and that he's saying some good things. Integration will take some time, no matter what (that's natural), and it would be nice to see more perspectives of newer or less active players on the issue of the "closed community", because they're the ones facing the brunt of the issue here.

Although I'm by no means a newcomer, I can say pretty comfortably that I /do/ struggle with integrating new characters, and I /don't/ feel like this is due to meta, but simply because of the natural process of making acquaintances being complicated. A few factors to consider are

• -Chances to meet the same characters *as* the same character in consecutive shifts are pretty low
  
  -Shifts are fairly short compared to IRL
  
  -There's often a ton of action, antag events, and non-canon round cutting RP short
  
  -Many characters tend to have a relatively short lifespan

All in all, the opportunities between two people to socialize are much lower than in real life, where you'll be working with the same people all day, every day, hopefully without too many people trying to kill you. This is slightly offset by the inherent desire people have to roleplay and socialize (and by the ridiculous amount of downtime some departments get when the station isn't going to shit), but I can understand why many might encounter some difficulties without it being attributable to cliques or closed groups.

[Susan]

Are you people seriously complaining about aliens talking alien in front of humans because you can't understand it?

I work retail. I work in Office Depot. There's a strong Mexican community here. They speak Spanish. They think I don't know what 'gringo' means, but I do.

Should I be infuriated they're not speaking 'Murrican in my workplace or what? Seriously.

I don't know what's brought on this super harsh character policing, 'we need to be friendly to everyone' attitude but it's certainly not the way to go. Characters who are either antisocial, aggressive, or rude shouldn't be shit on just because they don't make you feel welcome. The reality is most people in this world are not very pleasant to deal with. I see no reason why we need to start forcing people to be nice and never speak another language in a 'public' (what even is a public area, that's more than half the station) for fear of insulting some poor soul or making them feel left out. Oh nooooo!

[Tainavaa]

I hardly qualify Office Depot as the epitome of professionalism. Very ironic considering their target consumer.

[Guest]

To kind of support Sue's view on that, if we don't like having culture and language barriers, then why even have them? What's the point of having white, black, mexican, asian humans mixed in with catpeople, lizardpeople and frogpeople of all shapes and colors and sizes, if suddenly having these differences aren't okay? I happen to remember how odd it was to see a legit roleplaying character that was A) Black B) Had an afro C) sort of talked like a gangster D) Wasn't being played by a griefer, chucklefuck or asshat; in a 2d spessman game, because everyone liked roleplaying white people.

Now we're upset that Tradeband, Gutter, Siik'Maas, Sinth'unathi and Skrellian even exist?

It does look like as if it's an attempt to advocate some sort of uniform identity for how things should be just because it isn't liked by a few vocal individuals.

I get the reasoning behind the opinion and all, but it looks like there's an additional agenda behind that.

Yes, there may or may not be a negative connotation that comes with difference. But it is these differences, barriers and how people interact despite these differences and barriers that make way for an immersive world that, actually draws a parallel with real-life issues.

[Tainavaa]

I don't think anyone's got a problem with the general foreign speak.

I have a problem with openly using it on the operational frequency with no consequences, as that is intended to be a purely operational communication channel. Tau Ceti Basic is the operational language of NanoTrasen. Therefore, when discussing operational matters or speaking through operational media - such as 145.9 or departmental frequencies - it should be said in the operational language.

Whether people want to slack on that IC is completely up to them. If you don't abide by that and nobody says anything, well... Nobody says anything. Who cares. But if someone DOES say something... Something needs to happen. A swift beating, cutting out their tongue, simply asking them to stop. Any of those solutions work.

[Jakers457]

A common tongue should be spoken over comms. Meta paranoia shouldn't affect who you employ, you essentially fail at the basic Roleplaying principles in doing so. Sure it's hard to not have a bias, but you should make an effort to give people a chance.

There's my two cents on it until I get back from work.