Complant: HiveFleetChicken and Farcry.

[Jboy2000000]

BYOND Key: Jboy2000000

Player Byond Key: HiveFleetChicken and Farcry

Staff involved: N.A

Reason for complaint: Grievous abuse of head roles, being hostile to the station while loyalty implanted, and outright shooting people with lethal weapons, as the captain and HoS. It goes without saying this SHOULD have been punished, then and there, but it wasn't. All the proof, and the event itself if you don't know what Im talking about is here.

Approximate Date/Time: 24JUL2015

[Jakers457]

I believe the apparent issue wasn't ahelped until the very last minute and that the individuals in question were spoken to. Apart from that, I personally don't see why the issue should be pressed further. Just my humble opinion.

[Alberyk]

Right, I was involved in this, so, giving my verdict is something that should be done. The rp torture is fine, so, same as the reason for Yinzr and Ana arresting them. But, the issue is using lethals against officers, when one of them was just using a taser. I didn't ahelp, because I was too busy dealing with ic problems, and neither know if Sue did at the time. But, if Yinzr has not antag and didn't had a lethals weapon at the time, what could happen.

Also, using laser against an officer would be going against your own implant, since, you are damaging NanoTrasen assets.

[Jboy2000000]

Torture RP shouldn't be fine if you have implants, implants are in place so you DON'T do that. What I have a problem with the most is that people are ignoring that. The captain and HoS are the two most scrutinized roles on the station, if they can do that, what example is being set here?

[Susan]

I was going to make this complaint myself.

I join a secret round and immediately hear that someone is getting faceslammed. Lo and behold, when I check interrogation cameras - as the HoS had called for an officer to interrogation - the captain is there faceslamming the shit out of a prisoner. When I tell him this is illegal he blows me off, and the HoS mentions that Central authorized torture. I tell him to show me proof, and he does nothing but point to his implant. Yeah, sure. Whatever. I inform the captain he is to leave the prisoner and if he harms him again he will be arrested.

So the captain, Leonin Smythe, who was Farcry, then decides to gouge out the guy's eyeballs with a burning cigar. Obviously, as that is not only illegal, but malicious, we move in to arrest him and i give him my warning. His first response, as a loyalty implanted captain, is to lethally shoot the warden (he had him on aim and the guy moved, but his gun was set to lethal nonetheless, which is not excusable) and then when we move in because he shot someone in the face, he and the Head of Security (Hivefleetchicken) run out, guns blazing, firing lethally at every officer who was poised to arrest them. The only thing that stopped them was Yinzr being a traitor and revolvering them to death.

Then the rest of the round they continued to do antaggy things like escape from prison and evade arrest.

I did not adminhelp this because I assumed them to be traitors. This, while annoying, is acceptable antagonist play. It was only at the end of the round, when I realized that they were not traitors, that I was upset.

Let's recap. A loyalty implanted Captain and HoS:

-Tortured an individual brutally, shattering his skull and burning his eyes out of their sockets.

-Resisted a legitimate arrest by firing lethal weapons at security, as non-antags.

-Ganged up together to 'go down in glory' when instructed to surrender.

The following round, Hivefleetchicken as Shayla Roberts and Farcry as another character then proceeded to fuck around together, obviously metabuddying.

I want to reiterate that a loyalty implanted captain brutally tortured an antagonist, fired lethally on security, and resisted arrest, all as a non-antag.

[Difret]

>Reporting people when they were roleplaying amazingly

:^)

This was a great piece of roleplay, disrupted once again by Security members trying to shoulder their way in.

[Guest]

I agree that this is abhorrent behaviour from a Whitelisted community member. We are here to serve as examples to other players on how to act properly, and within procedure. The /only/ time it is appropriate to bypass regulations, is if the Captain orders so on Code Red, and only if there truly is still an active deadly threat to the station and crew, and even then, I'd never imagine torture being permitted by Central Command nor the Republic of Biesel to happen on a civilian station.

So unless they recieved permission from the administration to do this, or the DOs did for some reason authorize this, I implore action.

EDIT: Roleplay is supposed to exist within the IC regulations, expectations and OOC rules. Loyalty Implanted roles join, understanding they are not going to get antag/torture/abuse RP, because it is their job to STOP others from doing that shit.

[Difret]

So, because a role is loyalty implanted, you want to stop them from roleplaying? As far as I see, it was a great piece of roleplay, and restricting this means that exciting things like this will happen even less in future, because everyone will be too scared to do anything that doesn't fit in with a certain group's opinions of what roleplay should be.

[Guest Menown]

It's not a matter of what it should be. You're playing a character loyal to NanoTrasen, with a chip in their brain hardwiring them to go 'I can only do what's good for NanoTrasen.'

Deciding this means, 'Let me torture a prisoner and break several ROB/SA laws in the process, all while breaching corporate regs, and attempting to murder several officers in NanoTrasen's employment with lethal weaponry', /could/ cause a problem in the plausibility of that roleplay.

[Jboy2000000]

Expecting people to follow rules isn't limiting someone's RP. There are IC regs, and exceptions from whitelisted players for a reason. Thats like saying banning ERP and releasing plasma in the halls is limiting people from RPing because they'd be scared of acting out of a group's opinion.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

If they were traitors this would have been completely acceptable and totally fucking awesome. But they were loyalty implanted and opened fire with lethal weapons on officers, when both of them were implanted.

Implants are really vague and questionable, but shooting servicemen of the organization you're physically incapable of being disloyal to is a pretty clear cut violation on the implant. Even on LRP rounds an implanted HoS isn't allowed to start mowing down officers because he doesn't want to be arrested and accept the IC consequences for IC actions.

[Doomberg]

Alright, let's make this clear: A loyalty implant does not permit you to violate regulations to this extent, under any circumstances. It being "good RP" does not excuse anything whatsoever. I'll be handing this off to the staff members responsible for whitelist applications, considering it very much concerns them.

[hivefleetchicken]

I didn't actually use lethals on the officers. I shot Ana down with a taser, before I was shot dead with a revolver and then stomped/shot to death by Ana and Yinzr in the medical bay.

I was being told by my Captain (as a head of security) that NanoTrasen had permitted the interrogation and, hell, they ordered it, on the prisoner. I hit the prisoner one time to stir him back to consciousness after I gave him meds, before leaving because despite it all, Rook felt bad. Leonin was the dude carrying out the questioning.

I sat by and watched it for the most part, though, and I told my officers multiple times that I felt bad it was happening, and I even explained "Don't tell x this is what they're having me do" to one of my officers. Then an officer barged in, and ordered the Captain and me to come out for arrest.

I would have taken action against the torture if I hadn't been loyalty implanted, but since I was, Rook thought he was just following some questionable orders that fell to him to carry out, regardless of how extreme they sounded. And on an OOC level, I asked the player if he thought it was fun multiple times. He said he thought it was "10/10" and "epic", yadda yadda.

I came back inside of the interrogation room, making sure the person hadn't been killed, and found Leonin in there, right before the warden came in behind us. I was walking out, when Leonin pulled a pistol, aimed it on the warden, and told me to stick to my orders or die following them.

OOCly, everyone up to that point had said they were having fun, so I didn't put any brakes down to stop the RP by maybe having my character think, "Hey, this can't possibly be from NT, it's a crime against nature!"

ICly, I was loyalty implanted and being told orders by a Captain, my superior, that these orders were directly from NanoTrasen, my contractor. I was not going to just go "Hey guys I know I'm being told to do this but we need to stop", because as I've been told, I am mentally incapable of thinking against NanoTrasen's orders (unless the circumstances are that of mutiny or something).

It was intense, sure, but people were still having fun. Then the warden moved, and Leonin accidentally fired a reaction shot mid action. Then Ana ran in and threw a flashbang into the room, so I ran out with the Warden, and the Captain close behind. Then everyone shot me, so I fired back with a taser, downing Ana non-lethally while the Captain was shot by lethals by the officers. I think I finally switched to lethals to shoot a borg, but I never [intentionally, if I did accidentally hit someone] used lethals on a single live crew member, regardless that one of them had immediately started by shooting me with a revolver (lots of them were still using non-lethals, so kudos to them).

I don't mean to push blame back and start a sissy fight, but the officers could have handled that a lot better than by taking life weaponry and storming the interrogation room. Maybe they could have just come in there and ordered us to stop in person, instead of lobbing in flashbangs like one would deal with nuclear operatives?

Anyways.

Yes, I am completely aware that the heads should not be using live weapons on the station's officers, /so I didn't use live weapons on the station's officers/ (I can't say the same for Leonin). I used the non-lethal function, got shot to critical, and shot a bog with lethals before I laid down, got taken to medical, and was executed by the officers.

But, anyways, I do want to say sorry if I ruined anyone's round, because Farcry was doing this for !FUN!, and the person getting interrogated had no problems with it.

With that aside, I really would like to improve on this, so in the way of constructive thinking, what should a loyalty implanted head do if his superior is telling him 'orders from NanoTrasen' that may go against standard operating procedure?

[Guest]

With that aside, I really would like to improve on this, so in the way of constructive thinking, what should a loyalty implanted head do if his superior is telling him 'orders from NanoTrasen' that may go against standard operating procedure?

 

Use your better judgement so that the situation makes sense, and that you can't be judged for making a decision that didn't make sense. Just because one outcome would be more interesting/hilarious to watch play out, doesn't mean that outcome was right to let happen.

If you have an idiot captain who is threatening to kill someone for a rather stupid reason, then you shut them down before it gets violent.

When it comes to non-violent scenarios, going over the head of your superior and reporting the incident to THEIR superiors via the fax machine, is the best way to do it. Nothing is more humiliating than a boss' boss coming to shut down the chucklefucking antics of someone abusing their power as a member of command staff. Arguably, red tape is much more satisfying, as bureaucracy sticks around as a wonderful precedent.

[Alberyk]

Ana has attacked with lethals by the captain, medical had to stick her in cryo to heal the injuries, also the face was melted, and Yinzr had a revolver because he was a traitor, no one else had single lethal weapon, they went to arrest them using the standard sec gear, taser and the flashbang. The captain and the head of security were killed by an antag interference(with a revolver), at no point the non-traitor officers used lethal force against the command staff.

[hivefleetchicken]

If you have an idiot captain who is threatening to kill someone for a rather stupid reason, then you shut them down before it gets violent.

When it comes to non-violent scenarios, going over the head of your superior and reporting the incident to THEIR superiors via the fax machine, is the best way to do it.

 

If I could like your post on this thread I would, because it actually brings up something very important, which is the fact that the outcome of these things and the responses the players on station have to them are very random. For example, in a mutiny round (Yes this was mutiny, so it's not nearly as concrete, don't you dare try to get Delta in trouble for this), Delta's Skrellian Captain burned a bunch of evidence that would have saved NanoTrasen lots of money and averted a giant scandal posed by database hackers. This was fun, and everyone was having a good time, but security ran in to shoot or disable Delta's captain for being a heartless bastard (much like today, except for the fact that Rook did not assist the Captain this time), Rook tried to stop this, actually, and deny his orders, in order to go over the head of his superior and alert someone via a fax machine, but the AI locked him in a room with no power, disabling his ability to do this for a while.

So, what I'm trying to say, is that I've done both in my time and been on both sides of the conflict; sticking by the Captain's side and reaping the consequences for assisting a heartless bastard, or going against the Captain and reaping the consequences for denying my orders despite me having a loyalty implant, and both of them have gotten me somewhat trouble in some level (obviously this case is much more extreme, while the other just got me yelled at by an AI until the other heads finally sympathized with me) for supporting a cruel NT or going against the cruel NT that I should be enslaved to.

So there's really no /completely/ correct way to do it, but I certainly appreciate your advice, Delta, and I'll try to stick to it as lawfully as possible, as impossible as it may seem.

 

Ana has attacked with lethals by the captain, medical had to stick her in cryo to heal the injuries, also the face was melted, and Yinzr had a revolver because he was a traitor, no one else had single lethal weapon, they went to arrest them using the standard sec gear, taser and the flashbang. The captain and the head of security were killed by an antag interference(with a revolver), at no point the non-traitor officers used lethal force against the command staff.

 

That makes a lot more sense, much appreciated. That said, I never shot Ana with lethals, that's for sure, because I had her downed by tasers before I even saw the borg, so no misfire could have possibly hit her. So I guess that was Farcry doing the lethal shooting.

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Hive's context vastly changes my outlook on the situation, and I withdraw any desire for punishment for his character.

Edited July 26, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix

[Guest]

...On Hive's side, at least.

There's no excuse for a captain to display such conduct like this, however.

[Doomberg]

I didn't actually use lethals on the officers. I shot Ana down with a taser, before I was shot dead with a revolver and then stomped/shot to death by Ana and Yinzr in the medical bay.

I was being told by my Captain (as a head of security) that NanoTrasen had permitted the interrogation and, hell, they ordered it, on the prisoner. I hit the prisoner one time to stir him back to consciousness after I gave him meds, before leaving because despite it all, Rook felt bad. Leonin was the dude carrying out the questioning.

I sat by and watched it for the most part, though, and I told my officers multiple times that I felt bad it was happening, and I even explained "Don't tell x this is what they're having me do" to one of my officers. Then an officer barged in, and ordered the Captain and me to come out for arrest.

I would have taken action against the torture if I hadn't been loyalty implanted, but since I was, Rook thought he was just following some questionable orders that fell to him to carry out, regardless of how extreme they sounded. And on an OOC level, I asked the player if he thought it was fun multiple times. He said he thought it was "10/10" and "epic", yadda yadda.

I came back inside of the interrogation room, making sure the person hadn't been killed, and found Leonin in there, right before the warden came in behind us. I was walking out, when Leonin pulled a pistol, aimed it on the warden, and told me to stick to my orders or die following them.

OOCly, everyone up to that point had said they were having fun, so I didn't put any brakes down to stop the RP by maybe having my character think, "Hey, this can't possibly be from NT, it's a crime against nature!"

ICly, I was loyalty implanted and being told orders by a Captain, my superior, that these orders were directly from NanoTrasen, my contractor. I was not going to just go "Hey guys I know I'm being told to do this but we need to stop", because as I've been told, I am mentally incapable of thinking against NanoTrasen's orders (unless the circumstances are that of mutiny or something).

It was intense, sure, but people were still having fun. Then the warden moved, and Leonin accidentally fired a reaction shot mid action. Then Ana ran in and threw a flashbang into the room, so I ran out with the Warden, and the Captain close behind. Then everyone shot me, so I fired back with a taser, downing Ana non-lethally while the Captain was shot by lethals by the officers. I think I finally switched to lethals to shoot a borg, but I never [intentionally, if I did accidentally hit someone] used lethals on a single live crew member, regardless that one of them had immediately started by shooting me with a revolver (lots of them were still using non-lethals, so kudos to them).

I don't mean to push blame back and start a sissy fight, but the officers could have handled that a lot better than by taking life weaponry and storming the interrogation room. Maybe they could have just come in there and ordered us to stop in person, instead of lobbing in flashbangs like one would deal with nuclear operatives?

Anyways.

Yes, I am completely aware that the heads should not be using live weapons on the station's officers, /so I didn't use live weapons on the station's officers/ (I can't say the same for Leonin). I used the non-lethal function, got shot to critical, and shot a bog with lethals before I laid down, got taken to medical, and was executed by the officers.

But, anyways, I do want to say sorry if I ruined anyone's round, because Farcry was doing this for !FUN!, and the person getting interrogated had no problems with it.

With that aside, I really would like to improve on this, so in the way of constructive thinking, what should a loyalty implanted head do if his superior is telling him 'orders from NanoTrasen' that may go against standard operating procedure?

 

I would say you're fine, considering your explanation. Thanks for remaining calm and civil. We'll see what Farcry has to say.

Improvement-wise? One does not generally expect a loyalty-implanted captain to lie to his head of security about this sort of thing, so I don't think you really did anything wrong.

[Jboy2000000]

After hearing what Hive had to say, I don't think Hive should be given any OOC punishment like a head strip, but their character did follow unconfirmed orders to torture someone, and let it happen. So, maybe some kind of DO scolding should be involved?

[Guest]

Antag round due to traitor shenanigans. Unfortunately.

[Susan]

I'd like to know what's being done about this complaint; while I don't entirely buy Hivefleetchicken's version of events, Farcry is the one who is facing the real damning evidence here, and he continues to believe he did nothing wrong.

[TishinaStalker]

I'm going to be talking to Farcry tomorrow as recently I've been swamped with work, but tomorrow is finally my day off.

[Tenenza]

Locking and Archiving due to inactivity and disappearance of Farcry.

When/If Farcry reappears, this thread will be reopened and readdressed.

As well, Farcry has been striped of his head whitelist due to the actions describe in this thread, and his disappearance and thus inability to justify or defend these actions.