Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 BYOND Key: Jackboot Accused Players Byond Key: Mirkolio Time of Act: 10pm-11pm (UTC-07:00) Reason for Ban: Chucklefucking and violating the "Don't be a dick" rule repeatedly. Poor behaviour for his entire duration of playing on Aurora. Evidence: I have been repeatedly harassed by Mirkolio and his metagrudging. The paper shown above was spammed in my HoP office request console, and he tried to start a lynching over Houssam stealing everyone's dosh. Which happened to him exactly once, during a non-canon antagonist round. I ahelped originally believing it to be someone else. The fact it's Mirk made me extremely salty because he's already been spoken to about his behaviour. I really don't think there's any possibility of him improving his behaviour, even after all the DO actions and warnings from admins, and would rather he be removed from the community.
Garnascus Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Considering mirk has been on thin ice for a while now I'm honestly bewildered to see this type of behavior, this is way beyond anything IC conflict could warrant. Was mirk an antag at least?
Frances Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Isn't this just an employee being upset at one of his superiors and being an IC dick about it? There's slandering, there's hatemail/spam, but these are all IC. As long as the character had a reasonable (subjectively, I don't mean objectively) reason to develop a grudge against Houssam, why should this be dealt with OOCly? If the character performs in that way as a non-antag, as part of the station canon, he can be arrested, dealt with with DOs, and have IC measures taken against him, or even be fired outright. I just don't see how characters being a dick to other characters violates the "don't be an OOC dick" rule here, though Jackboot might have more to explain.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 (edited) He did this because I asked him IC'ly to stop telling everyone I syphon accounts, and OOC'ly after I ahelped it because it's either metagaming or meta grudging. This event happened right after Voltage told me he spoke to Mirk about not mentioning antag-round situations as he had been doing. The don't be a dick rule is supposed to cover being a cock where it's not reasonable or fair. Suddenly spamming shitty meme hatemail is being a dick. It was irritating and took my interest away from the round immediately. And Stamos has already been dealt with repeatedly. He's been locked to the cargo job because of IC shenanigans getting the character locked out of security, and has repeatedly tried to slip around the ban. The only reason Stamos wasn't permafired is because Duty Officers are leery about permanently killing off a character. There are no redeeming qualities or situations to be derived from the behaviour of Mirkolio with Jamison Stamos. The continued slapping on the wrist (he was given a warning by Voltage over this matter, which flabbergasts me) combined with the continued terrible attitude (Mirk has said in OOC he'd just basically rename Stamos if he's permafired, circumventing DO action) and then this behaviour here just sours entire rounds. This was the first round in many months that made me want to cryo myself out of frustration. Edited August 17, 2015 by Marlon Phoenix
Frances Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Well, okay, if he was informed what Houssam did was non-canon and he kept sending you hatemail about a non-canon thing after knowing he was supposed to disregard it, then that's bad.
Garnascus Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Is it possible for IC behavior to go too far? I think it certainly is. Is this an example of it? We generally see people get a little too uppity with racial and or homophobic slurs sometimes. While a little is ok I have asked more than a few to tone it down a bit through a pm. I just can't see how this is merely IC conflict. As jackboot said this paper was being spanned in his office. I just feel like this is going too far.
mirkoloio Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The Faxing of those hatemails happened right at roundstart, a couple of minutes after Stamos sent the request forms to his office, don't know the time. We ALL know how Houssam is. He's an asshole of a cat, abusing and harrasing were he goes and breathes. We all know it, nobody can deny it. At some point, one or another employee enduring this harrasment has to snap. What stamos is doing is trying to Scare Houssam with that. And the stuff in that paper, We have people brutally killing eachother, ripping hearts out in surgery while the subject is awake. But we can't hatemal/blackmail? Really? The stealing of money happened more then once. And the first times Stamos was fast enough to set his account to Sec Two. And to that point where Jackboot said Stamos is blocked from security roles, I got the screenshot from the Heads of Staff board here. I don't see anything saying: Jamison Stamos may ONLY be in Cargo Tech and Janitor, do you? And if we start that all his harrassment was in Antag rounds and thus void, then I'm asking you why everyone hates Stamos and nothing from his stuff was voided. That's my two cents to this, enjoy
Baka Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I remember this purely because I had to roll out of bed to investigate this case into where the faxes were coming from. I feel like if a random person were to do this, they would have gotten a stern talking to and a ban for spamming. I do not personally see why this would be different.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Mirk if you honestly cant see the difference between elaborate money laundering schemes and spamming "youre a pussy faggot" to your bosses office then I just rest my case. You weren't even an antagonist.
VoltageHero Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 I remember this purely because I had to roll out of bed to investigate this case into where the faxes were coming from. I feel like if a random person were to do this, they would have gotten a stern talking to and a ban for spamming. I do not personally see why this would be different. A random person shouldn't get banned for doing this, on their first instance, either. Banning somebody for their first instance of something is a bit much, in my opinion, unless it's something related to outright grief. This was what this was. There was no previous incidents of this happening, and thus, the player was told to stop.
LordFowl Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 The history between Houssam and Stamos has developed to such a point that the fact that there has been no IC permanent legal action taken is almost immersion breaking. The fact that DOs are unwilling to fire someone is a fault in the DOs and I think that if they are to set a precedent, Stamos should be that precedent. He has physically assaulted Houssam on more than one account, verbally assaulted Houssam on a plethora of accounts, all while Houssam is pretty much his boss, or at least his supervising manager. I don't see why Stamos wouldn't be outright fired for this behaviour. I don't know much about the money siphoning incident(s), so I won't comment, however the particular incident in question here strikes me as deplorable IC behaviour, but not really one necessitating permanent OoC action. The difference between an 'elaborate money laundering scheme and spamming youre a pussy faggot' is one of IC intelligence, morality, and etcetera. To say that Mirkolio is stupid because Stamos is stupid is rude and offensive, and it should be assumed that the deplorable aspects of a character belong to the character, not the owner of said character. If Stamos is permanently fired, and then Mirk creates a 'renamed Stamos' then its clear that it is the trait of the owner then, not the character, and then OoC action should start being taken.
Witt Posted August 17, 2015 Posted August 17, 2015 Ok, the only reason Stamos was not fired conon-ically after the Last DO intervention (his restriction to Cargo tech and such) is because the DO program was in its infancy and frankly we were unsure of how the admins/ server would handle our first big case being a firing of a very common charecter. As for why Stamos is expected to not go jump into security roles. It is actually because we all know Stamos's backstory and because of that we know that he does not have the IC training for Detective/forensic tech/officer/ Warden. If he chose to go Cadet we would not see an issue. Further more; Mirk has made it very clear to multiple DOs that if we move to firing Stamos that he will just rename him and continue on with the character. Also while we are examining Mirks behavior; I would like to bring up his antic in last nights Ling round in which he effectively removed the furry from the round 15 minutes in and hid his body in such a way that it could not be found until a player ahelped about metaing the location because it was unfair to the furry and ruined his chance at RP
mirkoloio Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Slow down here, please. I did neither eat nor Hide the Furry. He was eaten by Siganto and Hidden by Zeke Miller. I just arranged the capture. And since when are there proplems about doing the antag stuff now? Are we supposed to place bodies in plain sight for security? Also, The respawn timer goes 30 minutes. Just saying. And there too is a way around the timer. So technically they decided to stay out of the round instead of spawning back in.
spacevoidagent Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Slow down here, please. I did neither eat nor Hide the Furry. He was eaten by Siganto and Hidden by Zeke Miller. I just arranged the capture. And since when are there proplems about doing the antag stuff now? Are we supposed to place bodies in plain sight for security? Also, The respawn timer goes 30 minutes. Just saying. And there too is a way around the timer. So technically they decided to stay out of the round instead of spawning back in. You killed Safiya, and Siganto ate her. I (Zeke Miller) hid the body in the tunnels like you told me to. So only some of what you said is true.
mirkoloio Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 People got the point. I don't want the blame all on me. Not all the bad things that happen with me around are my fault, too
Guest Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I remember this purely because I had to roll out of bed to investigate this case into where the faxes were coming from. I feel like if a random person were to do this, they would have gotten a stern talking to and a ban for spamming. I do not personally see why this would be different. A random person shouldn't get banned for doing this, on their first instance, either. Banning somebody for their first instance of something is a bit much, in my opinion, unless it's something related to outright grief. This was what this was. There was no previous incidents of this happening, and thus, the player was told to stop. Warnings seem to do absolutely nothing, period. The playerbase is not afraid of your silly notes and player warning mechanics. You do not establish a precedent and hammer it into people that they fucked up without outright threatening a ban or applying it. A cop is not doing their job if they're only issuing citations to people who have repeatedly screwed up and have proven themselves to disregard the rules for what they are at any given opportunity for personal gain. Stop being limp-noodles. Do something.
Frances Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Stop being limp-noodles. Do something. head over to their house and kill them i guarantee if you do that you will never get trouble from them again
Guest Menown Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 Warnings seem to do absolutely nothing, period. The playerbase is not afraid of your silly notes and player warning mechanics What did it for me, was the feeling that I let down the admins, and the player of the round. I have one warning, and with that, I've never bombed anything again, due to the fear that I'd fail to live up to what is required for a Nuke Op.
the_furry Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 so I’m gona chime in on this one, I was pretty livid when I was killed. I went along with rp because I didn't think I was simply going to be kicked out of the game for an hour and a half. I even asked loocly not to hide my body but you (mirk) had it hid anyway. I regret going along with the antag rp in the hopes that we'd have some nice rp and I could have been cloned. Honestly the only thing it taught me is not to do any sort of antag rp with you. What really gets me is how obviously little you care about how your rp affects other people. Instead of taking ownership for what had happened, then apologized to the player and seek to correct the action you’ve given excuses and tried to shed responsibility. It was your decision to have my body hidden. I only have two characters and one of them is out so this 30 minute respawn timer isn’t exactly a great option for me. Thank you for kicking me out of the game so long, I am glad to see you care that you ruined the one round I get to play at night. The lack of courtesy you have shown is a perfect display of what it means to be an indecent human being. Take a moment to be a decent person and listen to the complaints put forth. Whether any of your actions (the ling, the spam, the robusting) is wrong or not, you can still show a level of decency as a person. Will it kill you not to hide someone’s body so they aren’t kicked out of the game, no, then be a decent person to your fellow players and don’t hide the body. I’m not saying anything you’ve done here is wrong, but you have displayed a clear lack of courtesy to other players. Jackboot was gravely upset by the spam that you had put forth. Even if you were not wrong in sending it according to the rules, be a decent human being, apologize and don’t do it again. There is no reason that your character just has to send this spam, and if it gravely affects another player to the point that it ruined their game, then don’t do it. That is what I believe the don't be a dick rule is all about. This is why you’ve not seen me monkey bomb the station in the longest time. Even though monkey bombing is not wrong or against the rules(at the time); when I did it it gravely upset a fellow player. I have enough consideration for other people that I stopped monkey bombing only for the sake of the other player’s enjoyment. I would like to see you be on this level of decency.
mirkoloio Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 I will say no more to this request. Go on, gang up on me and throw all the evil things I did at me. This is going to be my last post in this thread. Admins, do your thing.
LordFowl Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 On the topic of antags hiding bodies, which I don't really think was ever the point of this complaint and is only loosely connected by I suppose the chain of deplorable conduct, the idea that an antagonist should purposefully OoCly create faults in their plan so as to mitigate the ramifications of their deeds upon other players has always struck me as ridiculous. If it was some mechanic/powergame thing, perhaps, but hiding a body is almost so inherent to the idea of murder it is instinctual. If death was to be meaningless we wouldn't have respawn timers. I don't think 'hiding a body as an antagonist' should be accounted as an aspect of Mirk's potential punishment. Its concepts like hiding a body as an antagonist being worthy of even discussion of OoC punishment that make me consider joining the legion of people who question whether this server is Heavy RP at all.
Frances Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 On the topic of antags hiding bodies, which I don't really think was ever the point of this complaint and is only loosely connected by I suppose the chain of deplorable conduct, the idea that an antagonist should purposefully OoCly create faults in their plan so as to mitigate the ramifications of their deeds upon other players has always struck me as ridiculous. If it was some mechanic/powergame thing, perhaps, but hiding a body is almost so inherent to the idea of murder it is instinctual. If death was to be meaningless we wouldn't have respawn timers. I don't think 'hiding a body as an antagonist' should be accounted as an aspect of Mirk's potential punishment. Its concepts like hiding a body as an antagonist being worthy of even discussion of OoC punishment that make me consider joining the legion of people who question whether this server is Heavy RP at all. I might be going on a tangent, but the only valid reason I see to reproach hiding bodies to an antag is that antags remain primarily to bring something interesting to the round. People have encountered situations (not necessarily on here) where characters are randomly killed without warning, all of the crime's evidence disposed off, and the bodies sent into space or something similar. It's not necessarily about giving players a chance to be cloned (I think anyone killed by an antag should simply ask for a respawn if they want to keep playing straight away), but you can have antags that effectively remove characters from the round without bringing any single thing to it otherwise. And that's what we should be trying to avoid. I haven't read the minute details of this complaint, but I'd surmise this isn't exactly what's happening here, though.
the_furry Posted August 18, 2015 Posted August 18, 2015 So I don’t like that my primary point in my post was disregarded and instead frances and lord chose to reply to something I am not even saying. I never once said antags should not kill or hide bodies. In fact I said (twice) that I don’t necessarily think the actions mirk took were wrong. I was remarking on his lack of consideration and how that has affected other players; which falls inline with the general “don’t be a dick rule”. I would like to focus on that as opposed to talking about the actual actions he took. But I never said (nor do I believe) that antags should not be able to kill and hide bodies. However there are circumstances in killing and hiding a body that can be bad sportsmanship and violate the don’t be a dick rule. I also do not support a ban on mirk because I don’t think he’s been adequately addressed. I doubt anyone has explained the depth of why what mirk is doing is wrong even though the actual physical actions don’t violate server rules.
Recommended Posts