Is this video correct, and are we proof?

[Jboy2000000]

The video in question is

. It starts off as an explanation of certain type of "drags" and Final Fantasy, but then it takes a serious turn, and it started to talk about the overwhelming negative portrayal of homosexuality in gaming/gamers. I myself, after watching the video, think it may be true that most games do purposefully show anything outside of gender/sexual norms in poor light.

Now, the second part of my the title, how could we be proof? Well, we are literally a community of people who play games, and nearly everyone I know on the server has said at one time or another they play other "real" games as well. So, with that in mind, let me ask, how are non-heterosexuals portrayed on Aurora? Not only that, but how are they perceived? Even if the character is normal, when people hear they aren't straight, that character is most likely chucked into the bin of stereotypical SSL's immediately.

This thread isn't meant to insult anyone or anything, just food for thought I thought Id share for conversation's sake.

[Jboy2000000]

The video in question is

. It starts off as an explanation of certain type of "drags" and Final Fantasy, but then it takes a serious turn, and it started to talk about the overwhelming negative portrayal of homosexuality in gaming/gamers. I myself, after watching the video, think it may be true that most games do purposefully show anything outside of gender/sexual norms in poor light.

Now, the second part of my the title, how could we be proof? Well, we are literally a community of people who play games, and nearly everyone I know on the server has said at one time or another they play other "real" games as well. So, with that in mind, let me ask, how are non-heterosexuals portrayed on Aurora? Not only that, but how are they perceived? Even if the character is normal, when people hear they aren't straight, that character is most likely chucked into the bin of stereotypical SSL's immediately.

This thread isn't meant to insult anyone or anything, just food for thought I thought Id share for conversation's sake.

[GlamourChariot]

Without clicking that I'm gonna guess it's the Game Theory episode, and it is an interesting watch if that's the case.

As for Aurora, the overwhelming majority are stereotypical lipstick lesbians played by teenaged / low twenties men who are afraid of RPing a proper relationship and would rather obscure a relationship behind a (not so subtle) fetish.

Not a very convincing case.

[GlamourChariot]

Without clicking that I'm gonna guess it's the Game Theory episode, and it is an interesting watch if that's the case.

As for Aurora, the overwhelming majority are stereotypical lipstick lesbians played by teenaged / low twenties men who are afraid of RPing a proper relationship and would rather obscure a relationship behind a (not so subtle) fetish.

Not a very convincing case.

[Rusty Shackleford]

Ugh. I was hoping this kind of stuff would stick to the mainstream and not dribble through the cracks into our game.

It doesn't matter. Roleplay is subjective to each person. Whether the homosexuals are portrayed realistically or not is the call the of person playing them.

It isn't the game's fault, nor the community's fault. It's how the particular people who play the characters want to play them, taking into account their own specific beliefs.

Who cares if it's stereotypical? Who cares if it's not? Who cares if it's unrealistic? Nobody should. You're free to do what you want (within server rules).

[Rusty Shackleford]

Ugh. I was hoping this kind of stuff would stick to the mainstream and not dribble through the cracks into our game.

It doesn't matter. Roleplay is subjective to each person. Whether the homosexuals are portrayed realistically or not is the call the of person playing them.

It isn't the game's fault, nor the community's fault. It's how the particular people who play the characters want to play them, taking into account their own specific beliefs.

Who cares if it's stereotypical? Who cares if it's not? Who cares if it's unrealistic? Nobody should. You're free to do what you want (within server rules).

[Rusty Shackleford]

As for how they're percieved, whether they're accepted or not, it doesn't matter either. Take into account that this is a fantasy universe set hundreds of years in the future. Homosexuality/gender problems could have very well fallen out of favor in those centuries prior. We shouldn't force a coddling atmosphere for gay 2d spacemen/women for that very tiny minority who can't handle any sort of criticism whatsoever.

[Rusty Shackleford]

As for how they're percieved, whether they're accepted or not, it doesn't matter either. Take into account that this is a fantasy universe set hundreds of years in the future. Homosexuality/gender problems could have very well fallen out of favor in those centuries prior. We shouldn't force a coddling atmosphere for gay 2d spacemen/women for that very tiny minority who can't handle any sort of criticism whatsoever.

[Garnascus]

I can't say I've noticed very many homosexual characters but I think its mostly because the majority of our playerbase understands its kind of silly to define a character soley around sexuality preferences. If your character likes men, great. If your character likes women that's also great. I don't think it neccesarily chucks people into any sort of category. Its just another equity they choose to build their character with.

[Garnascus]

I can't say I've noticed very many homosexual characters but I think its mostly because the majority of our playerbase understands its kind of silly to define a character soley around sexuality preferences. If your character likes men, great. If your character likes women that's also great. I don't think it neccesarily chucks people into any sort of category. Its just another equity they choose to build their character with.

[Skull132]

I'm in line to agree with Garn here. You raise SSLs as a concern, but even then, their sexuality is merely something they have chosen to define their character with. To that end, even SSLs carry an array of designators larger than just their sexuality (young, female, lesbian, working in the medical bay, usually as a nurse, wearing skimpy clothing, having a shy demeanour, usually blonde hair and blue eyes as well -- as you can see, this is a list much broader than just the subject matter you are concerned with). As for perception, out of the people I've talked to on this server, over the two years of its operation, I have never once seen someone assign another character to the SSL category based purely on the character's sexuality.

I also think this video ranted a bit too long on the villain-sexuality connection, or the claim of there being one. I doubt there was anyone who thought, "Hrm. How to make this badguy seem more evil... Aha! Let's make him a homosexual!" And yet, that sort of train of thought is basically implied in the video. I just think that more freedoms, on all counts, are made for villain characters. (How many times have you seen a protagonist with a proper mental disorder, like psychosis, with the actual dark and gritty brought out, as it's done for the villains?) The question should, perhaps, be better focused on why we can't just extend the same liberties towards protagonists, albeit, I have a few good guesses towards that. Then again, a man born towards the start of the last century might just do and think as I outlined, but I don't know, can't say.

[Skull132]

I'm in line to agree with Garn here. You raise SSLs as a concern, but even then, their sexuality is merely something they have chosen to define their character with. To that end, even SSLs carry an array of designators larger than just their sexuality (young, female, lesbian, working in the medical bay, usually as a nurse, wearing skimpy clothing, having a shy demeanour, usually blonde hair and blue eyes as well -- as you can see, this is a list much broader than just the subject matter you are concerned with). As for perception, out of the people I've talked to on this server, over the two years of its operation, I have never once seen someone assign another character to the SSL category based purely on the character's sexuality.

I also think this video ranted a bit too long on the villain-sexuality connection, or the claim of there being one. I doubt there was anyone who thought, "Hrm. How to make this badguy seem more evil... Aha! Let's make him a homosexual!" And yet, that sort of train of thought is basically implied in the video. I just think that more freedoms, on all counts, are made for villain characters. (How many times have you seen a protagonist with a proper mental disorder, like psychosis, with the actual dark and gritty brought out, as it's done for the villains?) The question should, perhaps, be better focused on why we can't just extend the same liberties towards protagonists, albeit, I have a few good guesses towards that. Then again, a man born towards the start of the last century might just do and think as I outlined, but I don't know, can't say.

[Guest]

The last time I saw a textbook SSL, it was on Unbound Travels several months ago.

I haven't been recently, so I've no idea if things have changed over there, but I will say I've never seen a character that lived up to the minimum 'requirements' of SSL designation, here.

Except perhaps one.

[Guest]

The last time I saw a textbook SSL, it was on Unbound Travels several months ago.

I haven't been recently, so I've no idea if things have changed over there, but I will say I've never seen a character that lived up to the minimum 'requirements' of SSL designation, here.

Except perhaps one.

[Frances]

Imo the OP's video cherrypicks a lot. Most of the negative examples cited come from Eastern games (and a lot of very dated ones as well), while completely ignoring recent portrayals of both camp and unassuming LGBT characters in Western media I found honestly very enjoyable. (Both the ridiculous and 100% serious ones.)

Anyway, I'll say this about LGBT characters/individuals. I don't think LGBT stereotypes are an essential part of being gay/lesbian/trans/etc. You can have them, or you can not have them. Basically, they can help define someone, but often one of your favorite characters or actors might turn out to be gay and there's absolutely no particular indication of it besides the fact that they say they're gay or start dating dudes.

I would assume most of SS13's SSLs fall into the latter category, if only because lesbian stereotypes aren't particularly well known (they do exist, though. Look up butch and femmes, for starters.) Furthermore, a lot of people roleplaying girls-who-like-girls mainly do it because they are interested in their characters having romantic interactions with girls, not because they wanna be part of the LGBT lifestyle. So you're not gonna see a lot of people play up LGBT stereotypes in HRP. Is that a bad thing? Well, characters simply being homosexual isn't exactly a problem. But sometimes I wish people would play up these stereotypes more because I don't think they're intrinsically bad or tasteless, and they do represent a very interesting part of all the various personality traits we'll get to encounter in life.

Anyway, I've personally never seen someone in our game get excessively annoyed at characters simply for being lesbians (played by men or not). The other accompanying traits (drama-oriented, neglectful, selfish, discriminatory, clique-driven) seem to be the primary cause for this stereotype. And I think if your characters engage in all the other things described above, people kinda have a right to hate them and be wary of their group. It doesn't mean any of the hate is directed at LGBT folks in general.

In the end, I dunno if people don't play them because they don't want to risk being politically incorrect, or because they're simply not interested, but I just wish we had more camp gay characters.

[Frances]

Imo the OP's video cherrypicks a lot. Most of the negative examples cited come from Eastern games (and a lot of very dated ones as well), while completely ignoring recent portrayals of both camp and unassuming LGBT characters in Western media I found honestly very enjoyable. (Both the ridiculous and 100% serious ones.)

Anyway, I'll say this about LGBT characters/individuals. I don't think LGBT stereotypes are an essential part of being gay/lesbian/trans/etc. You can have them, or you can not have them. Basically, they can help define someone, but often one of your favorite characters or actors might turn out to be gay and there's absolutely no particular indication of it besides the fact that they say they're gay or start dating dudes.

I would assume most of SS13's SSLs fall into the latter category, if only because lesbian stereotypes aren't particularly well known (they do exist, though. Look up butch and femmes, for starters.) Furthermore, a lot of people roleplaying girls-who-like-girls mainly do it because they are interested in their characters having romantic interactions with girls, not because they wanna be part of the LGBT lifestyle. So you're not gonna see a lot of people play up LGBT stereotypes in HRP. Is that a bad thing? Well, characters simply being homosexual isn't exactly a problem. But sometimes I wish people would play up these stereotypes more because I don't think they're intrinsically bad or tasteless, and they do represent a very interesting part of all the various personality traits we'll get to encounter in life.

Anyway, I've personally never seen someone in our game get excessively annoyed at characters simply for being lesbians (played by men or not). The other accompanying traits (drama-oriented, neglectful, selfish, discriminatory, clique-driven) seem to be the primary cause for this stereotype. And I think if your characters engage in all the other things described above, people kinda have a right to hate them and be wary of their group. It doesn't mean any of the hate is directed at LGBT folks in general.

In the end, I dunno if people don't play them because they don't want to risk being politically incorrect, or because they're simply not interested, but I just wish we had more camp gay characters.

[hivefleetchicken]

I've annoyed my own ass of trying to word this to not be offensive, so please forgive me if I seem frustrated. Better than me accidentally dissing every gay person ever.

If I can tell right off the bat that your character is homosexual, then I do not like your character.

I've had pleasant experiences with people who I befriend, and act completely normal, before telling my character at some point that they're homosexual, and I've got no prejudice against them in those situations. Power to them!

But when I'm walking down the halls and BOOM, /THERE IS A HOMO (Usually lesbian)/ right in front of me, I want to vomit. If you're letting people know initially that you're a raging homo, then you're advertising it. Spin it any way you want, but the fact is that you've designed a character so that your sexual habits and preferences are the first identifiable thing about them, and that is sickening to me.

Sexuality should be used as a fraction of the foundation (backstory, nationality, family, political views, sexual preferences, religious beliefs, etc) you use to build your character's development and behavior, not the embodiment of it.

I've sometimes seen characters where the ONLY identifiable things about them are sexual in nature, and every aspect of the character is directly made up what is subjectively considered attractive to people (ie boob size [or even descriptions of how you can SEE their tits] in flavour texts, shy/timid nature for ugu~ girls, sassy/bold nature for tsundere girls).

What I'm trying to say, is, if we have a prejudiced system where we complain about 'homos', it's not our fault. The creators of these characters have intentionally chosen them to be sexual, and we have the right to oppose sexuality being forced onto us. We have never said that we were against homosexuals purely because of homosexuals being homosexual. Us puritans hate homosexuals not because of the homo part, but because of the sexual aggressiveness itself that is prevalent in these 'Suicidal Space Lesbians' that discomforts us to no end.

[hivefleetchicken]

I've annoyed my own ass of trying to word this to not be offensive, so please forgive me if I seem frustrated. Better than me accidentally dissing every gay person ever.

If I can tell right off the bat that your character is homosexual, then I do not like your character.

I've had pleasant experiences with people who I befriend, and act completely normal, before telling my character at some point that they're homosexual, and I've got no prejudice against them in those situations. Power to them!

But when I'm walking down the halls and BOOM, /THERE IS A HOMO (Usually lesbian)/ right in front of me, I want to vomit. If you're letting people know initially that you're a raging homo, then you're advertising it. Spin it any way you want, but the fact is that you've designed a character so that your sexual habits and preferences are the first identifiable thing about them, and that is sickening to me.

Sexuality should be used as a fraction of the foundation (backstory, nationality, family, political views, sexual preferences, religious beliefs, etc) you use to build your character's development and behavior, not the embodiment of it.

I've sometimes seen characters where the ONLY identifiable things about them are sexual in nature, and every aspect of the character is directly made up what is subjectively considered attractive to people (ie boob size [or even descriptions of how you can SEE their tits] in flavour texts, shy/timid nature for ugu~ girls, sassy/bold nature for tsundere girls).

What I'm trying to say, is, if we have a prejudiced system where we complain about 'homos', it's not our fault. The creators of these characters have intentionally chosen them to be sexual, and we have the right to oppose sexuality being forced onto us. We have never said that we were against homosexuals purely because of homosexuals being homosexual. Us puritans hate homosexuals not because of the homo part, but because of the sexual aggressiveness itself that is prevalent in these 'Suicidal Space Lesbians' that discomforts us to no end.

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Usually gays don't go blaring about how gay they are, and likewise

[Vittorio Giurifiglio]

Usually gays don't go blaring about how gay they are, and likewise