Peaceful "Antags"

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

We're not going in circles, Im asking again because there aren't answers. Where in these posts, was it answered where it says wizards are made to cause conflict? Where is the answer to my question about why conflict automatically creates more, better RP than RP created peacefully?

 

It says they cause conflict by being considered an antagonist role. This is arguing definitions.

Wizards don't have to be violent. I like messiah-wizards or ones that play out a gimmick until someone gets so offended that the wizard has to magic missile his problems away. And as traitor, I try to stick to white collar crimes because the last time I murdered someone as a serial killer they whined in LOOC and Skype for literally 10 minutes because apparently it's only gank if you're the one dying.

Anyway yeah, if you want to roll peace antag you better have some manner of being accessible to everyone, like the wizard with his teleportation.

[Frances]

There isn't, we aren't goon. You can't sow someone's ass to their face, shove a lighter up your butt or fart explosions. And toeing the line with too much trolley shot can potentially be a rule violation.

Hm, maybe you're taking what I'm saying too literally.

Baycode removed some of the trolly stuff (I dunno if /tg/ ever had butts tho) but you can't deny SS13 was designed to be ridiculous by nature - heck the name isn't particularly serious - yet HRP tries to do the most of taking it seriously, or at the very least giving it more story depth.

In the end, it's an example of the medium adapting to new possibilities, and I don't think different types of antagging should be disregarded solely because they deviate from the original intent.

What you probably wanna explain is why you think they're bad, not different.

[Garnascus]

So what the game is and isn't designed to be is only an effective argument if the arguing point is beneficial to you? Because thats what you just said. Wizard is designed to infiltrate and cause cause conflict, thats your point. Frances' point says the ENTIRE game design was meant to weird, funky, and not at all HRP, yet its not at all an arguing point.

 

Close, but you're making an association error. Frances was talking about mechanics which aren't available on our server. In talking about ones that are.

[Dreamix]

Why I dislike peaceful antags? I have no idea on what the hell should I be doing to make the round interesting for everyone, without breaking my character/immersions/rules.

Wizard, your usual peace-wizard: cannot go back to their homeland because of vox/whatever attacking it, teleported to the station because of a bluespace accident, no ID's or any official documents, you better spend five minutes trying to find out wizard's name. Usual repetitive talk with the wizard about their name and things, fax to CC, and usually giving them a 'refugee' or 'visitor' ID. Without CC's answer, no way I'm going to let the teleporting intruder do as he wishes just because 'peaceful'.

Changeling, same as a non-peaceful changeling, but with less straightjacketing, cuffing and killing. "Science, take over", no way I'm going to let that arm-bladey, identity changing 'genetic disaster' walk around the station just because 'peaceful'.

Traitor, why. "Syndiecate is holding my family hostage, help". Brig, probably. I will at least try to give science their traitory items, for them to research illegal stuff and to not have them dying out of boredom.

Nuke ops/Vox, 'we are traders'. This is NT-owned piece of space, why would anyone let you walk aboard the station? Are you saying that you just slipped past Icarus, and other ships, unnoticed?

As already said, if you want to be a peaceful antag, have at least a plan or a gimmick, please. Ahelp, and think of something with admins. Just remember that slapping a pair of bunny ears or a clown suit on a normal wizard will not make the entire round different, and nuke ops at least need something to trade with, if they took the peaceful route.

EDIT: Edited after Jackboot's reply.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Guest

[Guest Marlon Phoenix]

Why I dislike peaceful antags? I have no idea on what the hell should I be doing to make the round interesting for everyone, without breaking my character/immersions/rules.

Wizard, your usual peace-wizard: cannot go back to their homeland because of vox/whatever attacking it, teleported to the station because of a bluespace accident, no ID's or any official documents, you better spend five minutes trying to find out wizard's name. Usual repetitive talk with the wizard about their name and things, fax to CC, and usually giving them a 'refugee' or 'visitor' ID. Without CC's answer, no way I'm going to let the teleporting intruder do as he wishes just because 'peaceful'.

Changeling, same as a non-peaceful changeling, but with less straightjacketing, cuffing and killing. "Science, take over", no way I'm going to let that arm-bladey, identity changing 'genetic disaster' walk around the station just because 'peaceful'.

Traitor, why. "Syndiecate is holding my family hostage, help". Brig, probably. I will at least try to give science their traitory items, for them to research illegal stuff and to not have them dying out of boredom.

Nuke ops/Vox, 'we are traders'. This is NT-owned piece of space, why would anyone let you walk aboard the station? Are you saying that you just slipped past Icarus, and other ships?

As already said, if you want to be a peaceful antag, have at least a plan or a gimmick, please. Ahelp, and think of something with admins. Just remember that slapping a pair of bunny ears or a clown suit on a normal wizard will not make the entire round different, and nuke ops at least need something to trade with, if they took the peaceful route.

 

The Aurora isn't in NT space. It's in the space of the Republic of Biesel.

This isn't the frontier, where NT owns planets and stations outright.

[Frances]

And I pretty much think the fact that people can't agree on the details of the lore (well, the Loremaster posted now) shows just how malleable it is.

Nothing is really set in stone for antag rounds. We've had Vox traders, and weird nuke-diplomats (with admin assistance) who we ended up exposing as actual nukes. Given that the lore should exist to serve gameplay, and not the other way around, I particularly like players who are willing to take some liberties to make one-off, throwaway antag rounds a bit more interesting.

[Garnascus]

I dunno... i just thinks it waaay harder to pull off a peaceful antag that doesnt end up making the majority of players feel cheated into playing a non-extended round. Honestly if i SAW it more often i probably wouldnt think its that big of a deal, but most of the time i see peace antags exactly like how dream depicted them.

[Guest]

I'll be brutally honest here. I put down any sort of violent behavior as a Captain or HoS not because I dislike it personally, on the contrary, I enjoy a good fight now and then, despite my moaning when I lose, but I do it because I'm EXPECTED TO. It's these draconic expectation that are placed on me as a Head of Staff that makes me go out of my way to effectivelly shorten antag rounds.

I'm sorry.

Edited October 10, 2015 by Guest

[PigVomit]

It's pretty simple. You chose the role. No one's forcing you to do anything. But see that's the problem: people decide not to do much at all. I don't want to vote for extended every time, which lately has been the norm even when there's a changeling. Antags are literally there to ensure the round will be entertaining, yet we consistently see them fail to do even that. The player "opts out" to do their character. If you really feel uncomfortable with the responsibility, then at the very least ahelp it so admins can select someone else. Or better yet, toggle the option off so people who are actually going to try get a chance.

Now can a peaceful antag make a round interesting? Sure. Lately though, we rarely notice there was one.

[Jboy2000000]

I just want to say again, its not always the person's fault. Whenever I see peaceful antags not do much or anything, its because security/command catches them, and then they go out of their way to make life harder for them so they make them hostile so they can get their jollies fighting.

[Skull132]

There is nothing specifically wrong with peace antags. At least, not with the idea. And I've seen plenty of great, peaceful antagonists include the entire station in their fanciful scheme. And everyone seemed to enjoy those.

The trouble is, and do note that I'll be using a hyperbole to illustrate the point, that every 6 out of 10 peaceful wizards spend half of their two hours on station talking to the Captain/Heads of Staff, and the other half in the brig. Every 9 out of 10 peaceful nuke ops fail, because they do the "Let's go undercover as CC reps!" spiel, and expect it to be refreshing for the other players (guess what, it is not (and it really doesn't work (ever))). And a good deal of peaceful traitors just turn their rounds into storybook mode. A very curious issue that arises with peaceful mantags is the fact that no one really gets to see anything if they fail, where as with a failed aggressive antag, at least folks get a nice boom and a moment of problem solving to go with the flop.

But. And here's the caveat, at least for me. People will complain regardless. So instead of focusing on peace antag v mantag, let's look at the actual issue:

You need a fucking plan and an idea, and you need to have the capacity to execute it.

Seriously, it ain't rocket science. If you've got a solid idea, and are able to execute it, then there's nothing wrong with being aggressive, or peaceful. But when you roll traitor, and spend an hour and a half sitting on your bum, doing very little to nothing, then what your preferred MO is doesn't really matter, now does it?

Also. Two notes, kind of oxymoronic but both true:

- Antags should not expect Security and Command to make massive recessions in their MO just because you try to be friendly (they never do, just play around them);

- Someone should probably also see that as a head of staff, and specially as a captain, they can almost literally do whatever they want. Fuck DOs, fuck the pipsqueak of a Security Officer complaining about you placing trust in a person of interest, instead of having them arrested and cuffed to a bed. Just do your thing, and roll with your gut. Provided you have a good gut. If not, get a good gut.

ALSO v2. This is kind of disjointed, but I've had a long day, and this is the best I can do right meow. Weee~

[Guest Menown]

Escalate as needed is how I handle things. Sure, we could slap the intruder with infiltration charges and hold them in a cell forever, but if they're not stealing/being a fucker/breaking into secure areas, I try not to take them down. Seems easier to keep them calm and walking around star-gazed than potentially upsetting the calm in order to take somebody in.

[nanotoxin]

The reason I more often than not, play a peaceful antag, is because nobody RP's fear.

Bill "I've placed bombs all over the station"

Security "fuck that i'm getting you in cuffs"

Joe "I sound exactly like the Ai and am ordering people to do things and say I malfunctioned"

Command "It's just an imposter, don't worry about it, they'll stop"

It's no fun going violent when you either A) Have to kill people and get them upset at you or B)Get cuffed and/or killed right away. The only job that the antags need to do is create RP. How they do that is their perogative. They don't need to catar to you personally and do it your way. If you want it non-peaceful, then you play antag and be hostile till the cows come home.

[TechnoKat]

You try to roleplay with people as an antag, people decide to screw you up as you chat and do /me, they become the "hero of station" instantly.

You decide to be a peaceful antag, people decide to find every reason to screw you up and become the "hero of station".

You find a reason to murderbone the " heroes of station", you get an admin intervention, numerous complaints about yourself, antag ban and permanent ban requests.

And that's in the eyes of how I experienced my antagging. Lovely community, isn't it?

EXTRA: You go AFK, talk about it in OOC, before numerous valid hunting medstaff, researchers and more see you standing still doing nothing, go like "OH SHIT OMFG GET HIM WITB EVERTHNG WE HAEV HOILY SHIT HE SO DANGEROUS IM SO ROBUST LOL"