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Character Complaint- Katelynn Mcmullen


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BYOND Key:Ryan Falco

Player Beyond Key: Reyjakai

Staff involved:Xelnagahunter

Reason for complaint: [1] Power gaming [2] Lack of fear RP.

I am making this complaint because I've seen TOO much power gaming by Katelynn. She knows how to do nearly all of science, chemistry, knows how to operate military weapons, hardware, Security equipment AND knows how to deconstruct/reconstruct walls. She also has knowledge of mech piloting. A recent round, She was going into the AI core to investigate something with the captain. The malf AI decided to go public at that moment, and I, the security Borg with a laser rifle yelled at them to get on the ground. Katelynn immediately ignored me and pulled out a teleporter and teleported out. She then came back with an advanced energy rifle (Which she can use safely because she is an IPC) and a lawgiver (Whatever those guns with the multiple settings are called.) and she immediately gunned us Borgs down. Another instance is yesterday, When a aggressive nuke team decided to bomb the station and try to get the crew to surrender. The aggressive nuke team subverted the AI and katelynn tried to unsubvert it (Unsuccessfully) and when that failed she printed some weapons from science, got thermite and a security hard suit off a dead person she looted and went to the AI core to break in and try to destroy turrets. She got hit several time with lasers where she just casually took off the hard suit in an pressurized area and quickly nano-pasted herself back up to full health to just run back in and blasts the turrets again. Note: The images are from a round yesterday that I was observing on.

https://gyazo.com/8e1a2bb0ef41ff5ad2bf0e61077211d9 Her in a security hard suit thermiting a wall in the AI core during a nuke round. https://gyazo.com/7d5d5a466429825e2d24370bd86490a5 Her injured from the turrets, which she later nano pastes to fix instantly. https://gyazo.com/8316cbe82b6f417ed8d5fbb8358d5a8f Her thermiting the AI core with her mech below.

Approximate Date/Time:10/19/2015 10:30-50ish


P.S. Sorry If I misspelled a few things.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Mcmullen had DO action against her that removed her 'combat module', and was forbidden from using weapons with lethal intent outside self defense.


This wasn't something she could circumvent by being in a life-threatening situation. This was in her programming. She literally could not do what you are accusing her of without violating her own backstory and DO action.


In addition, from a loremaster perspective, it appears that this is using the fact that she's an IPC to powergame as per symptoms of the above statements, which is a whitelist issue. The DO and lore perspectives are separate, so I will be acquiescing the DO matters onto another (probably Gollee) and focus on the potential issue of taking advantage of IPC mechanics.


Circumventing DO action is an admin-issue, so it might even get kicked up to Tishinastalker, the admin that oversees the Duty Officers.

Edited by Marlon Phoenix
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I was asked to come and confirm that I saw the events first hand, the entire nuke round I was fighting basically alone against Katelynn, who not only managed to do this, but disabled all of my cameras in science and organized a crew evacuation to the science outpost. I Have nothing against the player, and I'm new here. But Gollee requested I come and confirm what he said was what happened. She didn't attack my core after disabling two turrets, but she -and- the op team kept rewriting me back and forth, until she started removing all my laws and just, expected me to help her. Thankfully Prometheus' personality matrix is meant to be helpful and not hurtful, so eventually he just shut himself down (I ghosted) to prevent further damage to the station.

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Just to add to the date/time. I started logging at "log 2015-10-18 (9 07 pm)", that was somewhere between the end of a round before the nuke.



I was ghosting around during the nuke where Katelynn was powergaming. Katelynn was basically powergaming, validhunting, playing to win. The crew was willing to surrender, to let the ops do what they want, to retaliate, and to step back. Katelynn was just taunting and hunting syndies with their own gear, constructing new walls, thermiting existing ones, repairing hardsuits, lasering the AI, healing herself with nanopaste she made by herself. Does the player, and the character know when to stop? Does the character have any flaws, or disadvantages? Is Katelynn at least something else than a human, that acts like a human, talks like a human, looks like a human, but is actually an IPC because of some weird incident (+/- abusing the whitelist to gain mechanical advantage)?




What really bothers me, the round just before the nuke:

837c2245df9f15aff8b77f801c50077c.png

 

I really thought that Katelynn changed, I was wrong. And during the nuke (+some ghostly gal summing it up):

27a491537767ad5e19fd494b271cf1e5.png

That is like,

. Lying on the deatchat, then constantly taunting nuke ops while running with syndicate weaponry and thermite, lasering the AI.
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BYOND ID: Evandorf


I was a nuke op during a round on the evening (US Central) of 10/18 when Katelynn was in Science. I was asked by Gollee to provide input.


We had subverted the AI and she was attempting to correct it in science. I went around and using thermals saw her in the lab before I went in. I shot at her with non-lethals, attempting to take hostages, unaware that she was an IPC. She fired back with lethal lasers and killed me with the help of a security officer (although I think the sec officer only used non-lethals). This was after I chased her, operating a ripley, away from the AI core.


These are just the facts of the situation. I have no personal history with her and know nothing other than what's been posted in this thread. I will say that having science personnel capable of taking out armed Operatives without sufficient RP impairs the Operative's ability to realistically RP themselves. I try to restrain myself when dealing with civilian crew but I can't make accurate threat assessments when scientists pull out advanced lasers without hesitation.

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Let's get things straight. A person who works R&D and robotics should have an understanding of how the things they make work. Correct? A researcher who spends most of their time working with MILITARY GRADE weapons would have a good understanding of how those weapons work, right? She's completely useless in any other department with the exception of genetics. The only things she can do in genetics is: Make protohumans, and clone people. The entire research part of genetics is lost to her. Xenobiology? Completely out. Chemisty? The only things she can make in chemistry are harmful chemicals, as that's all she's tested with them. Yes, this includes thermite.


As to the incident at hand, the AI decided to go public when we were in the foyer. The AI initiates code Delta, and the security borg shouts, "I HAVE A LASER RIFLE". Realize that as an IPC, she can feel fear, but not terror. The combat core did nothing, which I told you guys repeatedly. Everybody, IPC or otherwise, has a fight or flight response. I had the hand tele on me and decided to get the hell out of there. Before I left, I heard a lot of lasers being fired nearly immediately after the borg shouted that. If the AI called code delta, all bets are off. That means you have two choices - Run, or try to defeat the AI. I knew both of the borgs had likely killed the Captain, so when I saw that the AI had set the code delta explosion timer for THREE MINUTES, I had to act. Kate had been doing weapons testing to celebrate the fact that her DO action had expired, so she had the weapons already made. Made my way up to the AI core to try to destroy it, and ran into the borgs. Of course I shot at them right away. They had killed the Captain and had tried to kill me.


As for the nuke round. I'm the Research Director. What else am I supposed to do at that point? The AI shocked the door to R&D, cut power to the area, and started trying to vent the room I was in. Am I supposed to just sit down and die? And the weapons I printed in science were because the AI and nuke ops had bolted the armory, and I was the one left with handing weapons out to security. Some guy runs in and shoots me five times in the chest with a taser, so I run the hell out and a security officer happened to be coming by. The OP decides to switch to his submachine gun at that time, and that is when we return fire with lethals. There were 30 or so seconds between when I got out of the room and when I decided to shoot back, and that's when the situation changed from, "He's going to kidnap me" to "He's going to kill me". What is an IPC character supposed to do if someone tases them? Pretend to be human and get knocked down, or use that moment of confusion to get the hell out of danger's way?


And yes, nanopaste exists and is currently broken as hell if you're an IPC trying to fight turrets. Then again, turrets can remove limbs and do massive damage to IPCs, so maybe there's a reason for that. Again, what is a member of the command staff on the station for? Also, that's not the AI core, that's the upload. The only reason I did that there was to get ahold of the purge board so that I could try to fix the AI remotely. Again, what is my alternative? We had like two security staff on board, a Captain, and me. Security couldn't fight, the armory was blown, and the AI had been subverted. Doesn't leave me with a lot of options against blatantly hostile attackers.


And Jackboot, incorrect. The prohibition strictly forbid me from harming any crew for any reason, as well as handling any weapon for any reason, to which I adhered to through its entirety. And removing the combat module also removed the posibrain, hence the crippling that happened after the action took place. This was rectified later on. Her laws were removed at that time as well, which is something you would have known if you had the decency to talk with me for once about it instead of jumping to conclusions about everything.


And to Gollee - The combat core wasn't designed to make her a perfect warrior, it was meant for her to coordinate more effectively. It doesn't change her background with weapons, nor does it change her ability to use mechs. She's still worked in robotics and research for most of her life.


Onto the matter with Prometheus - Yes, I kept purging your laws. Again, what else was I going to do? I couldn't get to the AI core to card you, and I couldn't leave you under complete control of the station. The only choice that was left to me was to essentially get you under our control long enough to call an ERT. Is this considered powergaming? At what point does doing the job you're there for turn into powergaming? The common denominator here is that during both rounds, the AI was able to directly influence the entire station for the worse. Additionally in both rounds, the AI had tried to kill me directly. You can't really reason with an AI that had just set code delta, and you can't really reason with an AI that had their laws altered by nuke ops. The RD has a certain about of responsibility for the care and well-being of the AI and the androids. Am I wrong here?


And to Dreamix - Is taunting the nuke ops also not allowed? And again, was I hunting the nuke ops at any point during the round? I tried avoiding them completely, and only saw the one that tried to detain me in R&D. Does a head of staff not have an obligation to defend the station? And I don't think I constructed walls at any point during that round. I only thermited them. And again... If a hardsuit is damaged, who does security bring it to? They bring it to R&D.

 

I shot at her with non-lethals, attempting to take hostages, unaware that she was an IPC. She fired back with lethal lasers and killed me with the help of a security officer

You worded that like I shot back at you immediately. That's untrue. I only shot back after the security officer had tried to tase you and you pulled out your SMG and started shooting. Again, you're trying to take the blame off of yourself. What do you expect someone to do when you just walk in, put the gun at them, and shoot them five times in the chest with a taser? Am I supposed to say, "Hey, stop shooting me I'm an IPC."? At what point does taking a chance to get out of there while the other person is confused turn into powergaming and breaking fear RP? I saw my chance to get out of there and let security handle the situation, and I took it.


Edit: Another thing about repairing yourself with nanopaste. I think nanopaste should be changed, in that it should apply a small amount of healing over time to every affected limb, rather than being an instant treatment. Additionally, IPCs are a bit unique in that if you don't repair a hardsuit that's punctured or scorched immediately, you're going to burn to death in about two minutes.


Edit 2: And again, as a cyborg, is my character obligated to act like an android in some situations? What is a cyborg supposed to act like? I had the split personality thing, but you guys decided to have it removed. In fact, I'd say the DO action forced my character to be more human than they were before. What exactly is it you want me to do? Beep boop through the hallways? Can't do that, we don't have our own language and are too OP to get one. Is a cyborg supposed to speak in riddles or something? What exactly am I supposed to try to speak like or act like?

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Let's get things straight. A person who works R&D and robotics should have an understanding of how the things they make work. Correct? A researcher who spends most of their time working with MILITARY GRADE weapons would have a good understanding of how those weapons work, right? She's completely usel (...)

So, she just knows the most useful stuff to outrobust everyone, including the AI, nuke ops and their grandmothers.

 

As for the nuke round. I'm the Research Director. What else am I supposed to do at that point? The AI shocked the door to R&D, cut power to the area, and started trying to vent the room I was in. Am I supposed to just sit down and die? (...)

You don't seem to understand. You don't have a choice to lie down and die or kill everyone standing on your way. You can also do something in-between, like assist with and coordinate the evacuation to one of the outposts, while also trying to combat the AI, giving it an ultimatum, "you become neutral/help us, or you die".

 

(...) What is an IPC character supposed to do if someone tases them? Pretend to be human and get knocked down, or use that moment of confusion to get the hell out of danger's way?

Or, you may also try to do something else than outrobusting them. You may actually become a hostage, or try to talk the nuke op into saving the crew by sacrificing yourself, I'm sure a nuke op would like to sell a IPC RD as a slave to some slave trading scum.

 

And yes, nanopaste exists and is currently broken as hell if you're an IPC trying to fight turrets. Then again, turrets can remove limbs and do massive damage to IPCs, so maybe there's a reason for that. (...) Again, what is a member of the command staff on the station for? Security couldn't fight, the armory was blown, and the AI had been subverted. Doesn't leave me with a lot of options against blatantly hostile attackers.

Or, you may try to negotiate or to actually give up. If half of the security is dead, armoury is compromised, and the AI has been subverted, I can't seem to understand why a sane person would try to fight the overwhelming and more powerful enemy.

 

And removing the combat module also removed the posibrain, hence the crippling that happened after the action took place. This was rectified later on. Her laws were removed at that time as well (...)

So, how is she different than a normal human? What is the point of playing a IPC?

 

...which is something you would have known if you had the decency to talk with me for once about it instead of jumping to conclusions about everything.

So, this is a perfect circumstance to talk about this, a thread where everyone can express their opinions. What a suprise, it's like it's a public forum.

 

And to Dreamix - Is taunting the nuke ops also not allowed? And again, was I hunting the nuke ops at any point during the round? I tried avoiding them completely, and only saw the one that tried to detain me in R&D. Does a head of staff not have an obligation to defend the station? And I don't think I constructed walls at any point during that round. I only thermited them. (...)

Yes, on the picture of the logs I provided, I consider that taunting. Yes, a head of staff is obligated to defend the station, but also the crew. The crew repeatedly tried to surrender, retaliate, evacuate to the outpost, stop you from fighting the ops and actually try to like, not die. Myself included.

 

And again... If a hardsuit is damaged, who does security bring it to? They bring it to R&D.

It is debatable. However, I disagree. In my entire security career, I was always being ordered to hand the hardsuit to engineering and have them repair it. I imagine science being a more theoretical-science-thing, when engineering are the ones that actually build and construct stuff.




You don't seem to understand. To outrobust someone, or to shot yourself in the knee are not the only choices. You can do something in-between, and actually involve someone in your actions, rather to go on a one-man AI/nuke validhunt.

I am not trying to get you banned, I would like you to tone it all down, at least.

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I'm going to be managing this complaint.


You have five warnings of powergaming/rambo'ing in the Science department. Most of these have been explicitly taking weapons out of research in order to hunt and/or fight antags. I can mildly understand the AI situation to a certain degree,but not the nuclear one at all. It's come to my understanding that it is not rare for you to repeatedly powergame (taking your hardsuit off in order to apply medicine because "lolmechanics" in this instance), valid hunting as a scientist by literally going out of your way to fight antags (fleeing from the operative and then coming straight back to start shooting them down with R&D weapons, in this instance), and all around rambo'ing what you please because you *know* the game (see: every single instance of you having to confront an AI; not even joking, almost every single one that I've heard about).


Surprisingly enough, I have *no* idea as to why you have not been banned from Science yet, but something is going to have to give. At this point, I'm looking for a reason to not job ban you from Science since all of this *always* happens when you're in the Science department, but I can't find a single reason. Can you provide to me those reasons?


Edit: This is just for future reference since, for some reason, the sub rules don't appear for me? Might just be an issue on my end, but just in case for people looking to post here.

Only post if involved. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a player complaint regarding said incident(s).
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I just wanted to step in and add another of my two cents.


Even though I don't agree with Katelynn's actions I can definitely empathize. I started playing on Aurora relatively recently, and before that I played on less RP heavy servers. It took me a while to completely wrap my head around the objectiveless Antags and necessity for RP as opposed to gangking. In the heat of the moment you can get worked up and invested in defeating your antagonist, especially if they are taunting you or have humiliated you in a previous defeat.


Katelynn's points in her lengthy response seem to indicate that, at least during the critical moments of gameplay, she could not let go of the "need to win" mentality. Quite often she says "What else am I supposed to do?" or something similar. I would answer that sometimes there are no winning alternatives within the lore of the station and her character. But the outcome is not what's important; you should focus on how well you told your part of the story before you ended.


It's hard to stop and remember to work within your own narrative. Katelynn, I have no hard feelings against you and I hope you'll take this recommendation in the spirit it is given. In my opinion, your character is too robust, no pun intended. If you enjoy working in the science department I would drop the combat aspects. I would try to add to the story of the round within your given position rather than boost your backstory to makeup for the shortfalls that the position would incur on a normal player.

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Alright, I'm out of school for the day and ready to argue some more.


Dreamix. The idea isn't to out-robust everybody, even though it certainly seem like that's what I'm doing. And I realize that there are multiple options to every scenario. I agree that I shouldn't have tried to irritate the nuke ops so readily that round, but to be fair, they had already attacked me pretty early into the round through the AI. I had a vested interest in trying to stop their plans, as they had already been using the AI to try to kill or maim me. This is something that pertains to that situation directly. If someone runs into the room and points their gun at you and gives me an order, I will follow it nearly 100% of the time. What I will not follow is someone running into a room, shooting me five times in the chest and expecting me to still listen to what they do. I've already been attacked at that point, and know they have no interest in negotiating. It's in my best interest to get the hell out of there as quickly as possible. Only once security had shown up did I go back in after the security officer.


And the nuke ops giving an ultimatum like that isn't the most helpful thing either. The AI has absolute control over the station and the outposts. If the AI decides to start killing people on the station, it can decide to start killing people on the outposts. Shuttling people off of the station and onto the outposts when the AI is subverted is a really, really dumb thing to do.


And as for the situation, the only reasonable thing for me to do was to run at that situation. Saying that I could be a hostage to the nuke ops when I had a chance to run (Note that this only applied in the current situation where I had a relatively safe escape route compared to the alternative. Had I been in a different physical location, I can guarantee that I would have surrendered) is a sound thing to do in most situations, sure. Running is also a valid situation in certain circumstances.


Same goes for negotiations. Would a sane person fight back, or would a sane person surrender, even if surrendering had the extreme possibility of everybody on board the station dying? Am I supposed to trust what armed terrorists and murderers are saying? Should I take their word for it that they'll leave us alone if we run off to the outposts? My primary goal at that time was to get the AI either under the control of the station or under my control long enough to get an ERT called. I had no intention of combating the nuke ops alone, nor did I at any point in the round.


As for the IPC thing? The character was always designed like that from the very start. It didn't bother me one bit before that they were mechanically human before the shell update, and I applied to have the IPC application for this character (even though I do have another IPC character, one that I enjoy playing pretty well). How is a cyborg supposed to play? They're not an android, and they shouldn't act like one. They're alienated by humans, since they're not human any longer. What would you expect a cyborg to act like? Because I really don't know. I've been trying to play the character as best as I can, and nobody has brought it up to me yet that I'm not playing the character as they would expect.


And as for Jackboot, that's just what it is. We clearly dislike each other, and haven't had much communication with each other, if not any.


Defending the station and the crew is the primary obligation of a head of staff, yes. We definitely agree on this. I, however, think that the primary objective that should be the RD's job during any situation is to secure the AI. I may be wrong on this, but I feel like nobody is safe if the AI isn't secure. As I said before, the outposts aren't safe at all if the AI is subverted. They can pretty easily vent the entire outpost and kill everybody onboard.


Engineering normally repairs hardsuits that are brought to them, sure. Both R&D and engineering personnel should be trained to patch damaged equipment. Science has a lot of practical applications. This also goes to the reason why Kate can perform minor repairs - Any sort of outpost work requires a basic understanding of engineer, as do half of the science jobs. Researchers also are usually the ones upgrading equipment for machines, if the engineers don't want to do it, that is. As for the screenshot, I really didn't see that chat IC when I was doing that. The security officer I was with managed to get shot pretty badly, so I was focused on getting getting him patched up on the outpost, then back to medical so that he could get surgery to get back in the fight.


And on to Tish.. I really don't know what those warnings are. The only warning that I can see is this, which is 8 months old by now. http://puu.sh/kRRC3/5ae23d24c4.jpg

I've always asked you guys to be open with me about things that I do wrong, because not addressing it immediately just makes everybody irritated and lets things fester and gradually get worse and worse until something like this happens. In both situations, I was directly involved with the AI being hostile to the crew, and took fairly similar actions. And if patching yourself up out of harm's way in order to combat a half bolted shut AI upload is powergaming, I wasn't aware of it and I won't do something like that in the future. Also, what is validhunting? Is that the same thing as tracking down antags? Because I explicitly did not try to do that during the nuke round. My priority was always the AI, and my only encounter with the nukeops was when they came to R&D and shot me 5 times in the chest with a taser. Again, I did not come in and immediately start shooting. Stop trying to paint it like I did. I got out of the room, a security officer came by, he tried fighting back with the guy, he got shot a few times, and that is when I went in to help the security officer from a distance against the nuke op that had a sub-machine gun. It's not that I ran around the corner, pulled out a gun, and then shot him to death.


And every issue I've had has been with an AI, probably because the only time I ever meddle in the affairs of others is when the AI is damaged or is harming crew or the station. I don't do this in any other job in science except for RD, and that's because as I stated above, it's the job of the CE and RD to make sure the AI is running smoothly. It's like complaining that a CE has had a lot of problems to deal with the singularity not working. Of course they have to deal with it, because that's their job.


Jobbanning me is wholly and completely up to you. I've given explanations for the reasons that I did the things that I did, and am always open to suggestion if input is given.


And the number of people posting on the complaint were because Gollee reached out to people who were involved and asked them for input, which was greatly appreciated. Having more points of view only helps me as a player if I've done something wrong.


And to EJ_Denton - It's not entirely an issue with me needing to win, I try to put it in perspective when I'm playing during a certain round, but I will admit that I'm pretty bad at reactive roleplay, or having to make what would be considered the right decision under duress. I'm a lot more comfortable making decisions where everybody is included fairly when I'm a traitor, for example. And for the nuke round, I didn't consider the nuke ops to be my opponent, if I'm going to use that word, I considered the AI my opponent, as it had been the one that tried to kill me repeatedly. And I do agree that there are oftentimes where I don't see a winning scenario, and do end up making bad decisions occasionally. See: Fuckup, the nuke op. That one's a great example of where my inability to find out what I should do ended up killing several people for no good reason. Now, I've avoided that situation entirely and will never do anything remotely similar, at least not intentionally.


And it's weird to say that my character generally isn't robust, especially since 99% of the time I'm on the server, I'm incredibly passive. It's that the 1% of the time where I end up doing something, I perhaps overdo it to the point where a complaint like this becomes necessary. I'd still argue that I'm not trying to play to win, but that I've perhaps let too many strengths pour back into the character to the point where they're able to get into such ridiculous situations. I don't really think it's a matter of the character knowing too much, it's about me having everything the character knows readily available and able to be used effectively at the drop of a hat, I think. Anyway, thank you for the input. I appreciate it.

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Sure thing. And would you prefer PMs or Skype? I've got a few people on skype already, and it seems to be a pretty reliable method of communication, whereas byond's messenger is pretty shit overall. If you decide to go the skype way, my username on skype is my normal username.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix
And as for Jackboot, that's just what it is. We clearly dislike each other, and haven't had much communication with each other, if not any.

I don't dislike you. I was not able to properly communicate with you after your initial DO punishment because I am a full time student and work full time as well. I have very little time to respond to communications, and very spotty memory to get back to someone. Rather unfortunate that you dislike me, though.


You had it in your own backstory that McMullen is a result of her programming and modules. She was altered so that her proficiency with weapons was drastically diminished. Despite your ability to print off several weapons and construct mechs, you still showed military-grade proficiency with them, as well as taking advantage of IPC mechanics to confer advantages onto yourself. This is exploiting the partial rescinding of DO punishment and interpreting self-defense to the extreme.

 

If the AI decides to start killing people on the station, it can decide to start killing people on the outposts.

 

A screwdriver and wirecutters is all you need to make the AI powerless.

 

I've been trying to play the character as best as I can, and nobody has brought it up to me yet that I'm not playing the character as they would expect.

 

Literally the only thing we're having a problem with is McMullen being a one woman army, and displaying the extreme combat proficiency and refusal to ever put herself in a position of weakness. I actually defended her backstory of being a Million Dollar Woman combat IPC, despite the inherent silliness being bemoaned. I now regret this decision, because it's lead us here.

 

especially since 99% of the time I'm on the server, I'm incredibly passive

 

She's challenged a nuclear operative to a fist fight, fought AI's to the death in combat mechs, thermite'd into the core. Had a combat module in her brain which you activating by injecting sugar in her to complete a mix of reagents that spewed out smoke. She regularly carries fully upgraded protopistols around. She was punished for breaching the core of an AI with an ion law and shooting up the place as a precaution before said AI did anything harmful. How you say you act, and how you actually act, are currently two radically different things.


Again, I don't dislike you, but I will say that I am disappointed. During the duration of your DO punishment, I received and heard of no complaints on McMullen. I felt that I had managed to apply an IC punishment that allowed McMullen to exist as a character, and give you time to play the game without being the super robust super-woman. Now, so soon after getting the ability to handle weapons and mechs back, we're stuck here.


I worry that you genuinely don't understand the consequences to McMullen's behavior and apologize I wasn't able to effectively teach you why it was a problem outside the DO punishment in itself.

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I've been trying to play the character as best as I can, and nobody has brought it up to me yet that I'm not playing the character as they would expect.

I've actually kept myself from saying anything because I don't consider impeding on other people's enjoyment for the sake of my own, petty problems. But now that it's out, might as well adress all of the issues. So, here it is:


Katelynn maxes out R&D without materials earily in the round, then gets impatient waiting for materials. She takes advanced tools and uses advanced mining techniques, producing materials at a higher rate than your average miner. She usually does it when there are no miners, but sometimes even when miners are being slow. Don't take my word for it, but I think I've also seen cases where they failed to inform the QM of operations going on in their department.


Did I allow it while playing the game as a head of staff? Yes, I actually did a few times, even providing access. Although, usually a personally constructed mining android or mining robot accompaines Mcmullen to provide access. Why did I allow it? Ehh, why not. It's my duty as a whitelistee to provide others with fun and engagement.The given example is powergame, in my opinion, it just victimless that makes it tolerable.


However, all around, Katelynn seems like a character composed of departments glued together using poor excuses.

 

And as for Jackboot, that's just what it is. We clearly dislike each other, and haven't had much communication with each other, if not any.

I've had my issues with Jackboot, but he's actually a nice guy once you talk to him. He can also be an insufferable asshat, but deep down, we all love our loremaster. Do I get that pizza now, boss?

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I will say that this was my first time playing an antag-assist AI and my law only really told me to 'protect my core' and 'work to my best abilities to protect my master's interests'... They never once told me NOT to kill anyone, infact they never told me to do anything. They let me do what I would do to cause chaos. I kind of went all out and felt ashamed when a mod contacted me and told me I got a little out of hand(Near the end of the round). When I realized Katelynn was going to be my major opposition (Really early on), I bolted her in robotics, and vented the room. She got in that ripley to protect herself, and then she -came after me- with some... portal device... Also she didn't build anything around my core, that was my borgs before someone repaired science's power, and detonated them. And yes, I can confirm she never came at me with hostile intent (to destroy my core or anything), which is why I felt even more ashamed. Prometheus had tried to kill her, and she only came in there to try and fix me so she could get an ERT out of me. When Prometheus had no laws, his personality matrix defaulted to shutdown to prevent further damage to the station. I, and the nuke ops, had fucked up the station PRETTY BAD at that point. ERT was there, crew shuttle on it's way, he just shut off.

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Katelynn maxes out R&D without materials earily in the round, then gets impatient waiting for materials. She takes advanced tools and uses advanced mining techniques, producing materials at a higher rate than your average miner. She usually does it when there are no miners, but sometimes even when miners are being slow. Don't take my word for it, but I think I've also seen cases where they failed to inform the QM of operations going on in their department.


Did I allow it while playing the game as a head of staff? Yes, I actually did a few times, even providing access. Although, usually a personally constructed mining android or mining robot accompaines Mcmullen to provide access. Why did I allow it? Ehh, why not. It's my duty as a whitelistee to provide others with fun and engagement.The given example is powergame, in my opinion, it just victimless that makes it tolerable.

 

This is all true to an extent. Generally I'll avoid doing any actual mining if there are miners onboard, and instead opt to delivering them mechs/drills when I am able. The only reason I'm ever impatient about not being able to max out R&D is when I want to do some tests with some of the advanced weaponry that requires those resources. I've taken it upon myself recently to actually do xenoarchaeology instead of mining, because I've found that job to be a lot of fun to do.


And about there being a QM on board, I'd always ask them beforehand over PDA or comms if it was OK for me to use the mining outpost to process resources, /only/ if there were no miners onboard. And are her skills really that ridiculous? She's got access to most of research (Never been a fan of xenobiology except for using the freeze ray to kill our slime overlods), basic genetics, basic toxins, decent R&D and robotics, a little bit of xenoarch and anomaly work, some telescience on occasion (although I've limited it recently to very basic things), mining, and civilian jobs, and basic first aid (patching wounds, can't make any useful chemicals except for tricord and dylovene in the chem dispenser. Everything else is deadly) That's it. No other department will I work, and all of my skills are built around that. My character is also relatively old and has been a cyborg for the majority of her life. Wouldn't that imply that she would pick things up at an accelerated rate once she became partially positronic? That's what I had assumed, since we have plenty of androids onboard that have a large variety of skills to a high degree of proficiency.

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The easiest way, imo, to tell if you may or may not be powergaming is to simply ask yourself: Does my character rely on anyone?


From your brief overview of her skills, seems like Kate doesn't really ever need to interact with anyone during a shift if she doesn't want to. You manage to basically cover Medical/Security/Science/Mining just then, plus your apparent ability to construct walls on your own adds an ability to block off breached areas, so engineering isn't NECESSARY for yah either.


What's even left? As an IPC it's not like you need food/alcohol, so that's basically civilian jobs gone.


Basically, who does Katelynn NEED?


I wanna make it clear, I believe you're an excellent roleplayer, but I feel like you may be missing the point during character creation of adding flaws. What is something Kate REGULARLY needs from others? If you look around, all the other characters regularly need things from other departments/personnel in there department. Yet for Kate, it's more of a formality to ask others for things than an actual need.

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And if patching yourself up out of harm's way in order to combat a half bolted shut AI upload is powergaming, I wasn't aware of it and I won't do something like that in the future.

 

Yes, that's powergaming. Exposing yourself to space is dangerous and harmful almost immediately. The code, on the other hand, does not reflect that. When you have the option to go back to a pressurized area, then why would you ever expose yourself to space when you can gtfo, and then apply medication? Please think situations like that through in the future.

 

Also, what is validhunting? Is that the same thing as tracking down antags?

 

Bleh, validhunting was a poor choice of word, now that I think of it, but it still works. Basically, actively looking for a reason to fight antagonists. Compare a non-combatant being cornered and having no other option BUT to fight, to a non-combatant leaving and then coming back with guns explicitly to fight the person.

 

My priority was always the AI, and my only encounter with the nukeops was when they came to R&D and shot me 5 times in the chest with a taser. Again, I did not come in and immediately start shooting. Stop trying to paint it like I did. I got out of the room, a security officer came by, he tried fighting back with the guy, he got shot a few times, and that is when I went in to help the security officer from a distance against the nuke op that had a sub-machine gun.

 

And the gun you used to retaliate was what and from where, exactly?

 

it's the job of the CE and RD to make sure the AI is running smoothly. It's like complaining that a CE has had a lot of problems to deal with the singularity not working. Of course they have to deal with it, because that's their job.

 

There's a huge difference between "make sure the AI is running smoothly" and "breaking into the AI core with Ripleys and/or Thermite, smash turrets along the way, and possibly break the AI; doing all of this, for the most part, single handedly, and at the drop of a hat".

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And the gun you used to retaliate was what and from where, exactly?

 

I had them in my bag, and I made them in R&D specifically for security when the armory was destroyed. If I'm not mistaken, I had already handed out two of the four, and had two left in my bag. Remember that this altercation happened right inside R&D by the front window.

 

There's a huge difference between "make sure the AI is running smoothly" and "breaking into the AI core with Ripleys and/or Thermite, smash turrets along the way, and possibly break the AI; doing all of this, for the most part, single handedly, and at the drop of a hat".

 

And of course there is a difference between the two. My job doesn't suddenly disappear when things get more hectic. When did I just bust into the AI core at the drop of a hat by myself? The nuke round was a bit special, as we already had very few security personnel to begin with, the bridge was gone, the AI was subverted, the one security officer I knew about that was still alive just went into surgery, and I had just gotten back to R&D to grab what I needed when the AI tried to syphon me out of robotics. Ripley's kinda the safest place at that point, IPC or not. And as I stated before, the AI has complete control over the outposts from an IC perspective. That's not a valid place to run. And also recall that I never breached the AI core on either of those rounds, and on the malf AI round I had the Captain with me. It wasn't us who started the hostilities on that round, it was the malf AI who randomly decided at an hour and 20 minutes was the ultimate time to call delta without any buildup. We went in there unarmed.


If I see something that could be dangerous to me, I always bring security with me if I am able. Look at the wizard round right before that. AI reported something suspicious on the mining outpost, possibly xeno, so I grabbed a sec officer and we both went over there. I really do try to include people as often as I can, but there's only so much you can do when half the station is broken/vented and the AI is subverted, ya know?

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The easiest way, imo, to tell if you may or may not be powergaming is to simply ask yourself: Does my character rely on anyone?


From your brief overview of her skills, seems like Kate doesn't really ever need to interact with anyone during a shift if she doesn't want to. You manage to basically cover Medical/Security/Science/Mining just then, plus your apparent ability to construct walls on your own adds an ability to block off breached areas, so engineering isn't NECESSARY for yah either.


What's even left? As an IPC it's not like you need food/alcohol, so that's basically civilian jobs gone.


Basically, who does Katelynn NEED?


I wanna make it clear, I believe you're an excellent roleplayer, but I feel like you may be missing the point during character creation of adding flaws. What is something Kate REGULARLY needs from others? If you look around, all the other characters regularly need things from other departments/personnel in there department. Yet for Kate, it's more of a formality to ask others for things than an actual need.

 

I can see your point here, and a lot of that depends on what I'm specifically doing. I really do avoid the things that my character can't do particularly well, and instead focus on doing things based around her strengths. As an IPC, any physical things wrong with me can pretty much be dealt with in department, just like Engineers that have damaged their robotic limbs don't come to robotics all that often to repair them. Is that powergaming, just because they don't rely on someone that they could have otherwise? And I do rely on other departments pretty heavily. If we're doing any toxins experiments, we call in atmos to help us rework things. We'll call in security for xenobiology experiments, we'll call in security for all the hulks that somehow still work here. Do I make dylovene and hyronalin for the idiotic xenobiologists that inevitably nearly die almost every round? I don't. I take them to medical, because that's their job. I can understand that you seem to think that I try to do everything on my own, but that's really not the case.


And as for my repair skills, they go as far as this - Fixing and building walls and windows, or anything that I'd have to do for xenoarchaeology. That's it. I don't do anything other than basic construction, and if there's ever a breach in the station, I'll always call Engineering. I haven't ever tried to do their job and have always asked for relevant department's help when doing these things. And for the civilian jobs, they're not necessarily excluded. There are plenty of ways to be involved in them, especially when doing experiments. I don't generally do chemistry experiments in R&D, which is why I don't involve myself much with botany or the chef, but those areas of the station /are/ involved when necessary.

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Well that's sorta my point, everything you just listed are extras in the sense that in any given emergency, you have all your own bases covered. The general rule is: Know your own department and a little of one extra. The engineers who can fix there own limbs would know engineering and a little of science, but that's it. Here you know Science, a little of engineering, a little of medical, and a little of supply. Chemistry, I'll admit, is iffy as it can fall under both science and medical just for the simple fact these is a small chem lab on the outpost.


All I'm trying to say is, maybe Kate shouldn't know the little things like first aid/building walls? You could then do all the science (obviously, since your an RD) and the mining bit still. As for the weapons, that would be handled on a case-by-case. I don't believe you seek out antags really, but you would likely know how to fire weapons simply because you do test them regularly ICly.

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Those are things that ultimately come from me not wanting to have certain skills one round, and not having certain skills another. If you're doing test on protohumans, you need to know how to patch them up. Medical would be more than a little irritated if I brought in a protohuman several times per round just to have them patch up their wounds. Same goes for xenoarch. That cuts out my ability to build a xenoarch outpost and disassemble the walls on the asteroid for those 3x3 rooms they have. It's just little things like that where I base my character's skills from.. And I've got no inclination to learn all of science. This issue came up ~6 months ago with Tenenza where they said the leader of the department shouldn't know every aspect of their department, at least as RD is concerned. As such, I purposefully (back then) gave my character a few skills that would be useful in other departments.

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Those are things that ultimately come from me not wanting to have certain skills one round, and not having certain skills another.

 

But that's the entire issue. Your character SHOULDN'T have those certain skills. Just because YOU know how, doesn't mean THEY should. How do you know Medbay or Engineering wouldn't want to be involved in those activities? 9 times out of 10 both of those departments have people sitting around twiddling there thumbs doing nothing productive. Everything you just said essentially sounds like "It would be a pain for ME if she couldn't do these things."


As for what Tenenza said, he meant you shouldn't know every job in your department because that's just too much for a single person to know. It doesn't mean trade out a few internal departments for a few minor skills in several others.

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  • 2 weeks later...
But that's the entire issue. Your character SHOULDN'T have those certain skills. Just because YOU know how, doesn't mean THEY should. How do you know Medbay or Engineering wouldn't want to be involved in those activities? 9 times out of 10 both of those departments have people sitting around twiddling there thumbs doing nothing productive. Everything you just said essentially sounds like "It would be a pain for ME if she couldn't do these things."


As for what Tenenza said, he meant you shouldn't know every job in your department because that's just too much for a single person to know. It doesn't mean trade out a few internal departments for a few minor skills in several others.

Working with other departments is good, I agree. Always possible? I'm not so certain. And I have altered my character's skills to rely on other departments for various things. And while it's inconvenient for my character to do a lot of things, OOCly I can run every department, and I've got characters for other departments that reflect that. The only reason this specific character shows certain strengths in random departments is because of how long I've played them, and that they've been the character I've put the most time onto. I started out in genetics, so I slapped on some medical experience with that. I've changed that so that's not the case anymore, which is weird to me, but seems to be the way you guys would prefer things to be done, which is fine. It makes sense RP wise for it to be that way.


And I may have misunderstood what Tenenza said. It was ages ago, before I even applied for a whitelist.


And to what Jackboot said - I missed what you said when you typed it for whatever reason, not that I'm intentionally ignoring you. My opinion of you is based on a lot of heresay and the various, albeit brief encounters that we've had. I hadn't gotten the impression that you were very keen on me for a variety of reasons. As for the backstory that I gave during the DO interrogation - Most of that I had to make up on the spot, so of course it's going to be gibberish. I've been altering the aspects of that to fit my current character, just as I always have. All my backstory was prior to that was, "Died in a fire that killed her dad, became a cyborg, was mute for a while because of it, managed to become useful again." It got unnecessarily complicated for no reason when I had the DO meeting because I figured it was a good enough time to make a better backstory. She's not a result of her programming, and she's a cyborg. In fact, she's in control of her faculties moreso now than she was prior to the DO intervention.


And putting myself into positions of weakness is something that I do, but once again, those situations aren't he ones that are ahelped. The only situations that are able to be gauged are the ones where I don't do what other people expected me to do. Every situation (At least in the last 8 months or so) where I got into a situation where I was a one woman army was when I was attacked personally by antags, security was non-existent, and/or the AI was subverted/rogue. Those are literally the only situations where I get myself into these kinds of situations. And as for her lore, I stated somewhere that her combat module wasn't designed to make her a killing machine, it was simply designed to make her more coordinated with others in combat. Her skills are wholly from her being a researcher that likes weapons.


And as for challenging nuke ops to fights - Yes, I definitely talk a lot of shit to nuke ops. I don't know where I've ever fought an AI to the death in a combat mech before. I can only think of a few times I've even been in control of a combat mech, and one of those was during a nations round. And I'd argue that I didn't shoot up an ion lawed AI for no reason, and I'd say that I was pretty justified in that case in doing what I did. I had a lengthy discussion with Doomberg about it not too long ago. And once again, the DO action really wasn't necessary. I'm fully able of playing the character however they need to be played, and I don't think I went insanely overboard in these instances either. The only times where I end up doing things remotely similar to this is when I'm the only person capable of doing something. No command, no security, rogue AI? That's the RD's job to fix it. I still have an obligation to defend the station and the crew. It's one of those things where you have to wager what you should do and what your character would be expected to do in that situation, in world. I'm assuming all heads would be trained in crisis management, etc. If there's a guide to follow somewhere, outlining exactly what you should/should not do in any given situation, that'd be even more helpful. I'm not perfect, and I try to make the round as fun as possible for as many people as possible whenever I play. Sometimes people die, that happens. Sometimes I make bad choices, that happens. Everybody does, and I don't think I make worse decisions on average than other players. Anyway, that's my thoughts on this. Sorry I was so late, I didn't see Jackboot's reply until a bit ago, and I forgot to respond to Japak.

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