Complaint: Nuclear: 29/10/15

[callum99877]

BYOND Key: Callum99877

Player Byond Key: OneOneThreeEight, Adddude1, Alberyk

Staff involved: SenpaiShadow_ Spoke to them, i still felt a complaint was needed so as to explain the whole situation and so everybody could give their version of events.

Reason for complaint:

This is more of a complaint about Nuclear rounds all together. Dont get me wrong, it makes my day when people make an enjoyable nuke round with lots of RP but i've seen countless times nukies just shooting to kill and "ganking" crew and security. This is not RP.

At first seeing two names i know for a fact have very good RP on the list got me thinking it would be a good round, very fun. I knew things were taking a turn for the worse when they started by bombing the armoury (i have no problem with that) But then shooting and killing both engineers trying to repair it. Then things went quiet for around fifteen minutes until they subverted the AI (which i also have no issue with) But as we attempted to fix the AI they showed up at the bridge. From my point of view i saw them gun us all down with no words or RP. I consider this gank. They say security shoot first, and if thats true would you blame them? After shooting the CE and killing two engineers, and bombing the station. And after some of us were downed they proceeded to continue to attack and behead us. There excuse of "they shot first" will not suffice, they could have easily taken prisoners that were downed and unable to move. They instead killed multiple crew.

And another point on that, if it was a case of returning fire, why did you gun down everyone that ran away? I fail to see any attempt of RP in the round, I fail to see any goal from the nuke ops other than "kill anything that moves". And explanation would be appreciated.

I believe nuke rounds like this have happened many times before and if players cant make nuclear fun then what is the point in playing it at all? Like I said, my complaint is more about the gametype, not the players, I genuinly dont want to play on the server when its voted.

Thanks, Please add anything i missed in the comments.

Approximate Date/Time: about 18:30 BST

[TechnoKat]

I was playing as Kaipov during the round, yeah, it was just a basic "get in and shoot some fucks up, leave no evidence with nuke", but I've seen MANY ways they were able to subdue us with non-lethals, MANY ways to get hostages.

[Gollee]

As a note, as soon as the operatives looted tech storage, despite (as far as I know) only one being seen, and no one being hurt; Kaipov immediately started trying to hand out energy carbines, which seemed excessive, given that it could have just been a crewmember in a red suit, and we don't empty the armoury for that.

[Alberyk]

So, when we the ship reach the station around 20-30 minutes in the round, 3 of the 4 new cops are ssd. I went out and I break inside the engineering storage, I see the CE, which was an ipc, I fired at him aiming for the leg with the carbine, since with two lases blasts, you can pretty much disable them in a non-lethal way, he is hit by the first shoot and falls back and I return to the ship without trying to purse him.

I found myself with all my team ssd, admins put someone in the place of one of the operatives, one of them space themself, we attack the armory and we go back to find two engineers. I spend all my carbine rounds firing tasers against them, but, they kept runing, then I drop the energy weapon and I aim my smg at him, he don't give up and is killed.

We head to the bridge to stop them from resetting or carding the AI, there, one of the operatives is caught and is downed to crit. I throw an emp grenade to disable security weapons, then, we got back towards the core, I yelled for people to get down, however, same as the engineer, mostly of them refused and Inis was just the only one resting after getting hit. So, captain's charge in with his weapon, and we purse them while firing. Tony was still dragging Inis and still refusing to lay down even after being hit.

We were unable to use non lethals due to the emp grenade, which will empty energy weapons. And I tried that before, but, they kept running, like both engineers.

So, everything was pretty messy, due to most of the team being unexperienced and pretty new to the gamemode. Also, Delta joined later, taking place of one of the operatives.

[TechnoKat]

As a note, as soon as the operatives looted tech storage, despite (as far as I know) only one being seen, and no one being hurt; Kaipov immediately started trying to hand out energy carbines, which seemed excessive, given that it could have just been a crewmember in a red suit, and we don't empty the armoury for that.

 

I started handing out energy carbines when Ezra stated that someone was being shot. I believe the chief engineer, at command channel I believe(or common).

[Japak121]

Just because the operatives didn't talk doesn't mean they didn't create RP. The point of nuke, in my opinion, is to create a violent and high-stress environment for the crew and for them to roleplay with that in mind. As long as the nukes don't gun down people who surrender without a word or make it so it's entirely about a kill-count, then everyone has options and the chance to roleplay.

I'd like to also point out that the rules that we have don't define exactly how antags have to act. For example:

The primary goal of antangonists is to CONTRIBUTE TO OTHERS' ENJOYMENT. Be creative when coming up with objectives, and try to do things which will be fun for others, not only yourself.

Antags don't take the responsibility of others fun entirely on themselves. The rule clearly states CONTRIBUTE. As in, you should be trying to have fun with the round and they'll participate in that with you. As for objectives, we've had so many nuke rounds it's hard to be original, so some ideas may get recycled. It happens.

Only resort to killing if it makes sense. Randomly killing someone because you’re a traitor will get you removed right quick. However, in certain situations, murder can serve as a tool, if none other applicable. If you’re uncertain, ask for guidance via adminhelps.

You're a mercenary employed my a terrorist-like organization. Violence is the norm here and it makes sense they won't put up with people's shit the same as a traitor would have to. For them, it's about the job and the money and they simply have to not get caught. For other antags, things are more complicated as you generally have less resources (a ship of your own to leave on) and you're already in the system's database, thus it makes less sense to casually kill people.

No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. Collateral damage is acceptable within reason, but this means you must use common sense, and avoid creating scenarios with a lot of potential for collateral (setting bombs in high-traffic areas, etc.)

Antags will sometimes kill. That applies to all of them, although nukes more than most given they have little recourse for stealth and blending in. As for the interesting roleplay, notice it says "if your goal is assassination". It doesn't say always. If you're targeting people, then you should roleplay with those people. If your targeting an object and people are nearby who try to fight you or refuse to surrender, then that's kinda on them for being an idiot. These people are heavily armed mercenaries. Your an engineer/scientist/doctor/chef/whatever. Remember the footage of those guys in that mall in Africa that went around shooting up people? No regular civilians rushed at them. They all ran or hid. That's NORMAL. Trying to disarm a gunman is NOT normal, it's heroic. Don't get mad if you try to be a hero and fail.

I think that's the biggest reason people take issue with nukes. Because they die. So what? It's not canon. Unless they stormed engineering and gunned you down when you surrendered, it's likely because you decided to be a hero/not listen. That's on you.

[callum99877]

All good points, as far as Kaipov is concerned, as a security member would you not hand out weapons if someone had been shot? And i understand violence is a given but killing everyone in sight? Even those on the floor unable to move? Then after they were in crit they proceeded to behead people (me at least) with energy swords. Also, I dont approve of lying, 0 nukies said a word to me at the bridge, and i was the captain. There was 0 contact attempts to me. It was gank. So dont attempt to turn this on security, there were many chances to take hostages, you took one and failed even with that and they needed a rejuv. You did not once aim your gun at me or speak to me, you shot and didnt stop, you then beheaded me when i was in crit and could be saved and captured. Do you deny this?

[TishinaStalker]

my team ssd, admins put someone in the place of one of the operatives

 

Just coming in to clear up, that was Delta. He was there before you set off from the ship as I witnessed myself while putting Delta into the body through variables. Just in case that helps anything in any way.

[Guest]

Uh. Probably. I had to lie down because I had a headache so I don't really all what happened during this round besides that we killed the OP (the captain) and set off the nuke in a somewhat fun way, I guess. I gave people fair warning we were bringers of the apocalypse, I guess. I remember seeing the captain say that they answer us with lethals even though I wasn't really ICly present for the team's earlier 'atrocities.'

Before that, though, apparently Kaipov went to rush to the armory for carbines without an actual confirmed terrorist threat? I don't know, really.

[callum99877]

I must point out that there was one nukie (delta?) that did attempt to talk, he was communicating via comms, but the other two were just... Gank central.

[Alberyk]

We tried to take hostages before, but, they ran just at our sight, I did waste all my carbine trying to stun both of them, I tried to interact with the crew, not my fault if the engineer was still moving after being aimed with a smg. When we got inside the command breakroom, I yelled to security, but I also noticied that the doors behind ourself were closing and then I returned to safety while the other operative stayed and was killed by security.

You come at the bridge with the pistol in hand, so, by this topic, you were armed and was expect to fight us, like security did. I didn't shoot anyone that was on the ground, and neither I did fire at Inis, which had a internal bleeding and damage at the head, I was always aiming at the chest, when Esra was donwed by the bullets, I stopped and yelled for Tony to get on the ground, since he was dragging my target, but, no one like to listen to the mercenary armed with a smg. Besides, the crew probably opened first fire at us in the bridge, I am unable to confirm it, due to the fact that I was in the command's dorm while that happened.

I could have talked to the crew, indeed, but I was busy most of the time, trying to help the other ops that were quite new to the gamemode and etc. Besides, Golle himself asked to be revived due to rp reasons.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Guest

[Gollee]

I could have talked to the crew, indeed, but I was busy most of the time, trying to help the other ops that were quite new to the gamemode and etc. Besides, Golle himself asked to be revived due to rp reasons.

 

That is correct, it was sucky to be taken hostage and then just die from a punctured suit. Plus, I thought it would make an interesting dynamic for an ERT trying to raid the Ops shuttle with a hostage on board.

[Alberyk]

That is correct, it was sucky to be taken hostage and then just die from a punctured suit. Plus, I thought it would make an interesting dynamic for an ERT trying to raid the Ops shuttle with a hostage on board.

 

Inis died due to internal bleeding in fact, she had around 20% of her blood level when I scanned her.

[Gollee]

Damned headshots, jeeze, did you pull her or something?

[TechnoKat]

Damned headshots, jeeze, did you pull her or something?

 

I've a problem with people who target head all the time because they're such experts at heat of the battle. Is it such a problem to waste a couple of more bullets to chest to kill someone? I mean, even one bullet of .357 to chest can instantly put someone down and quickly die from internal bleeding.

[callum99877]

Of course i was armed, nukies attacked crew already, and you say you didnt shoot anyone that was downed? Ok i want to hear from the third player. Because that tells me he did, once i was downed i was shot multiple times and then beheaded using an energy sword. And you may have spoken to security, but i personally didnt hear a single word.

[Shadow]

Here we go again!

Last response was in early november..

I'll go ahead and mark this as inactive.

If you have any questions or concerns about this complaint, PM

Locking and archiving.