TechnoKats antagban/ERTban appeal.

[TechnoKat]

BYOND Key:

TechnoKat

Total Ban Length:

Apparently a final ban was placed on my antagging, I'm just going to put a couple of arguments in, if I can get the bans revoked without the whole "we're staff we're always right" mentality.

Banning staff member's Key:

Scopes and Baka(from what I was told, don't go mad at me)

Reason of Ban:

Apparently lowrp and so said "gank"

Reason for Appeal: (State your reason for why you think you should be unbanned)

I was honestly trying to contribute to the rounds each time I go antag, after my first antagban was revoked, but apparently killing Jboy's character was unacceptable because "lol lowrp and gank", when I gave out good reasons for why I killed his char. Roleplay can literally be defined any way, from taking toolbelts to breaking into something, you don't need to react, you're not a fucking rambo, I found many reasons to silence Keener, so I've done it.

A fair amount of lot been defending me from that ban request, hivefleet, frances, etc. And I appreciate that.

I made sure Keener would stay in round(cloning her after removing evidence and leaving body alone, to make it look like entirely different situation) , I tried making ERT and Security(who was at time controlled by Ana'fucking'Issek) ponder what happened, which sadly didn't turn out as I believed. I had so little time against another antag with tator items, ERT was around, Ana and security goons were around, searching for Katelynn and more bodies, just more info.

What happened after? Kaipov went hunting for Katelynn, the last alive traitor, to capture her and silence her(not by killing, just kidnapping)

Apparently trying to contribute to the round is less awarding than allowing a snowflake choose for yourself, if taken by the whole ban reasons logic. And no, I don't want the whole "but the notes man! the notes piled up against you! you cant read them but they're so bad!" thing, because I'd see players like Delta for example already banned months ago, or Sue.

I'd also like to say that Jboy just took this little chance to ruin my "experience". Great community, right fellas?

[Garnascus]

Right so, i found out how to view a player's notes without them being logged in. Apologies on that i didnt know that was possible. Anyway i will send you a PM with a screenshot of the relevant note history here from what i can see and ill try to get in touch with baka as it was apparently her decision to ban you from the note here.

[Baka]

No.

You ganked someone as soon as they were coming off the DO shuttle. You provided an emote, yes, and within a second of emoting you shot them without giving them time to react. I'm tired of seeing your shit poor play, and so was Scopes.

You can get an unban from anything antag as soon as hell freezes over.

[TechnoKat]

No.

You ganked someone as soon as they were coming off the DO shuttle. You provided an emote, yes, and within a second of emoting you shot them without giving them time to react. I'm tired of seeing your shit poor play, and so was Scopes.

 

There was a singularity breach, emergency shuttle was called and the DO's stood next to their shuttle waiting to leave(where'd you take that they just arrived instantly?)

Yes, I shot the trooper looking after the DO, but gave no time to react? I stood still waiting, as he then took out a carbine and started tasering, luckily I still shot him down, before the DO grabbed the gun as well and set it to lethals, making me kill him as well.

Also, was able to check the notes, apparently you just placed it and no questions asked, or discussed even.

 

You can get an unban from anything antag as soon as hell freezes over.

 

what?

[Guest]

Oh, great, I was mentioned again. Right, now that you have my attention, I may as well take a bit of space here to explain the reasoning behind the staff disciplining my conduct from awhile ago.

First off. I was an idiot. I was not a good player, at all. I was more concerned with validhunting and killing antags for personal enjoyment. I didn't INTEND to create a lot of suffering, but it was a byproduct of my actions. I often mocked people who had very good reason to be angry, and so it looked like I was intending to be an asshole.

You know what I did in response? I actually took the advice of some close friends and of the administration to improve.

Doing a good job in IC is what became utterly sacred to me. I decided to work towards being a role model, a player that people would look up to and ask for help on occasion. Someone that you could TRUST to do their job efficiently and without any nonsense about it. I don't play many chucklefucky or joke characters because I don't want people's opinion of me to drop. I do not want to be seen as a piece of shit. I give it my all each round to give people some semblance of enjoyment, even if I play a role I absolutely hate to do but know that someone has to do it right for a change.

Later on, a bit more recently, I decided to stop being a vindictive, self-righteous piece of shit on the forums. Nobody needs nor deserves that kind of attitude around here, especially with all the internal problems that sometimes give people a dose of the real cancer that's spreading around here.

That cancer happens to be from salty-ass server vets that come onto the server all mad and pissed off about "what Aurora's become". And in return, pissing everywhere else. For a little while, I acted a lot like that.

And then I realized I was being part of the problem. I should've eaten a ban a couple months ago.

I was a shit player. Period. But I got better. I'm still trying to improve from this point onward, since I still got some issues with escalation of force and communication.

And it sounds an awful lot like we have more things in common than I thought.

Here's my suggestion. Cut down on the passive-aggressive, projecting shitposting. I don't care if you think it's funny, I'm pretty sure some people think you're an asshole for doing it, and I'm pretty sure you're not. Don't give people a reason to think that.

[Baka]

Techno. As it stands, You were given a chance not to be a piece of a shit being an antag. Actually, many chances. You're treated so lenient for something people get banned for lesser. Why are you still bitching again?

You have twenty-eight notes. Twenty-eight. People usually kiss the curve with around 3-5 notes. Thirteen of those because about poor play when you're an antag. When you shot the DO, the Escort, and attempted to shoot their pilot the moment their ship dropped into the port, you did nothing but spawncamped. That was the final straw the broke the camel's back and that's why you're never going to get your antagonist role ever again.

[TechnoKat]

Techno. As it stands, You were given a chance not to be a piece of a shit being an antag. Actually, many chances. You're treated so lenient for something people get banned for lesser.

 

shit antag, contributing to the round as cultist/nukeop, keeping players in round most of times, yeah, shit antag, okay moving on.

 

Why are you still bitching again?

 

Why are you going around now? I'm trying to resolve this ban here and you just went in attacking me now.

 

You have twenty-eight notes. Twenty-eight. People usually kiss the curve with around 3-5 notes. Thirteen of those because about poor play when you're an antag. When you shot the DO, the Escort, and attempted to shoot their pilot the moment their ship dropped into the port, you did nothing but spawncamped. That was the final straw the broke the camel's back and that's why you're never going to get your antagonist role ever again.

 

Now you're fucking lying here. I didn't fucking spawncamp there nor' I even WENT INSIDE the fucking SHIP, WHICH WAS CLOSED, LITERALLY, SINGULARITY BREACH OCCURRED AND I WENT TO ARRIVAL PODS BEFORE SEEING THE TWO STANDING OUTSIDE THEIR SHIP LIKE GOONS. where are you making this up? from your circlejerk between Sierra?

you're just straightly pulling this from your arse so you can defend yourself, get the damn logs and take a peep at them again. I'm VERY sure Nightmare can confirm I was NOWHERE inside the ship, nor' I don't even know what fucking pilot you're talking about.

I want to ask Skull or someone else who's capable to be arguing with me, than this fuckening.

[Witt]

Hello, Duty officer escort here;

I can in fact confirm that techno did not spawn camp the DO and myself. what he did do was walk up say hi and shoot us without any sort of chance for rp or response.

now I know I am a lowly developer, but from what I have seen of techno both OOCly and as a player; I think we should not be un-antag banning them.

[TechnoKat]

Hello, Duty officer escort here;

I can in fact confirm that techno did not spawn camp the DO and myself. what he did do was walk up say hi and shoot us without any sort of chance for rp or response.

now I know I am a lowly developer, but from what I have seen of techno both OOCly and as a player; I think we should not be un-antag banning them.

 

Shot up the trooper first, yes, gave about ten seconds of time to see what happens. Then the trooper takes out the carbine and fires at me, I retaliate, decapped the trooper.

BEFORE I SEE THE DUTY OFFICER TAKE THE CARBINE AND SET IT TO LETHALS, which bothered me A LOT. Yeah, killed him as well.

My whole plan was literally kidnapping that Duty Officer, it just moved onto this mess.

[Frances]

So to recap:

-You have a visiting DO + bodyguard

-Techno is antag, decides to kidnap the DO (who can be considered valid due to the evac)

-Techno's plan is to shoot down the bodyguard then hold the DO at gunpoint

-Bodyguard can pretty much be considered valid, you're a high threat protecting a high value target and your job is pretty much to die for your DO (and I don't think bodyguards should be there exclusively to stand around as they are protected by all forms of assault due to plot armor)

-Techno ambushes the DO + bodyguard in a secluded area, kills the bodyguard

-The DO picks up the bodyguard's gun in a risky move, and gets killed by Techno as a result

Can an admin confirm that this is the basic outline of the events? Because if so, I fail to see what's really wrong with it.

Techno did take the high-chaos route (which isn't wrong per se), but there was a pretty clear chance that an interesting situation could result from it. In fact, the only reason why he was unsuccessful is because the DO decided to take their dead bodyguard's gun and fight back with it - had Techno been succesful in [kidnapping a DO after shooting down their escort as an antag], I doubt he'd be facing an antag ban.

There seems to be some confusion as to what happened, however, as Baka is reporting that Techno "attempted to shoot [everyone present on the DO shuttle] the moment it docked", which is contradictory to some of the other information posted here.

I don't condone any of Techno's other actions, such as the shooting of that engineer by the armory or any of his other 28 notes, but it's not my place to judge those.

[Witt]

No, Frances. there are two problems here.

1. both Sierra and myself (the DO/Escort) were crippled due to extreme lag caused by engineering chuckle-fuck releasing the singulo. random click may have caused the gun to be grabbed.

2. his actions forced us to spend yet another week arranging time to talk to the parties related to the incident we came on for.

Bonus:

Regardless of if the DO grabbed the gun the real issue is that his poor RP/gank of the DOs and other players in general. since his antag ban, he has been very toxic in OOC (from my view anyways).

[Frances]

No, Frances. there are two problems here.

1. both Sierra and myself (the DO/Escort) were crippled due to extreme lag caused by engineering chuckle-fuck releasing the singulo. random click may have caused the gun to be grabbed.

2. his actions forced us to spend yet another week arranging time to talk to the parties related to the incident we came on for.

Bonus:

Regardless of if the DO grabbed the gun the real issue is that his poor RP/gank of the DOs and other players in general. since his antag ban, he has been very toxic in OOC (from my view anyways).

 

1. I'm not here to fault the DO, but I don't think Techno needs to magically guess their intent (I also don't think lag makes you pick up items by accident.) See person pick up gun, shoot person with gun.

2. I'm under the understanding that the singulo was released, and that you were in the process of evacuating the station. No?

As I said, I don't condone of other actions I might not be aware of (and I do think Techno opting very liberally to use lethals during code blue when they were unneeded is an indication a discussion on conflict needs to be had with him), but I wish to insist that this one, very particular incident (which has been stated to be the "straw that broke the camel's back") doesn't really seem to have any incriminating evidence against him.

[Baka]

 

Line 2358: [15:21:28]SAY: Ghost/SierraKomodo : He started fucking shooting, I was already in crit before I drew my carbine

I'll dig up more shit later.

Edited November 6, 2015 by Guest

[TechnoKat]

So to recap:

-You have a visiting DO + bodyguard

-Techno is antag, decides to kidnap the DO (who can be considered valid due to the evac)

-Techno's plan is to shoot down the bodyguard then hold the DO at gunpoint

-Bodyguard can pretty much be considered valid, you're a high threat protecting a high value target and your job is pretty much to die for your DO (and I don't think bodyguards should be there exclusively to stand around as they are protected by all forms of assault due to plot armor)

-Techno ambushes the DO + bodyguard in a secluded area, kills the bodyguard

-The DO picks up the bodyguard's gun in a risky move, and gets killed by Techno as a result

Can an admin confirm that this is the basic outline of the events? Because if so, I fail to see what's really wrong with it.

Techno did take the high-chaos route (which isn't wrong per se), but there was a pretty clear chance that an interesting situation could result from it. In fact, the only reason why he was unsuccessful is because the DO decided to take their dead bodyguard's gun and fight back with it - had Techno been succesful in [kidnapping a DO after shooting down their escort as an antag], I doubt he'd be facing an antag ban.

There seems to be some confusion as to what happened, however, as Baka is reporting that Techno "attempted to shoot [everyone present on the DO shuttle] the moment it docked", which is contradictory to some of the other information posted here.

I don't condone any of Techno's other actions, such as the shooting of that engineer by the armory or any of his other 28 notes, but it's not my place to judge those.

 

That's basically what literally happened. Not to mention the carbine was still set to taser, until DO picked it up and switched it.

[SierraKomodo]

No.

You ganked someone as soon as they were coming off the DO shuttle. You provided an emote, yes, and within a second of emoting you shot them without giving them time to react. I'm tired of seeing your shit poor play, and so was Scopes.

 

There was a singularity breach, emergency shuttle was called and the DO's stood next to their shuttle waiting to leave(where'd you take that they just arrived instantly?)

Yes, I shot the trooper looking after the DO, but gave no time to react? I stood still waiting, as he then took out a carbine and started tasering, luckily I still shot him down, before the DO grabbed the gun as well and set it to lethals, making me kill him as well.

Also, was able to check the notes, apparently you just placed it and no questions asked, or discussed even.

 

You can get an unban from anything antag as soon as hell freezes over.

 

what?

 

As the person who was playing the ERT escort, I don't have logs of this, but I distinctly remember things going in this order

Victor Kaipov emotes pulling out his revolver and opening fire

Tpr Helosi, while her carbine is still strapped to her armor, takes 2 or 3 bullets in the time it takes me to realize I'm being shot and pullet out the carbine.

Helosi gets one taser round off before her head gets blown off

I'm not sure what happened from there, only that it ended with the DO's head also being blown off and Kaipov being completely unharmed aside from a taser round or two.

[Jboy2000000]

Baka posted the lags of the event, for those who seem to be missing it. The logs, from what I could read, said Kaipov shot 9~ times, the Tpr got two shots off, and the DO had a grand total of absolutely no shots, killing the DO five seconds after killing the Tpr.

[TechnoKat]

Baka posted the lags of the event, for those who seem to be missing it. The logs, from what I could read, said Kaipov shot 9~ times, the Tpr got two shots off, and the DO had a grand total of absolutely no shots, killing the DO five seconds after killing the Tpr.

 

The logs doubled, look at how they're repeating. It only underlined my part to make it more visible, you can't shoot nine times with a revolver, minimum holds seven.

otherwise, idfk what you just said or how this changes something.

[Frances]

Does the amount of rounds fired matter? You don't really fire a lethal weapon at someone with the goal of "harming" or "scaring" them when they are themselves armed.

[Guest]

I noticed that nobody wants to take into account of the poweremoting. I don't know about you, but "popping a couple rounds into the trooper before aiming to the DO" before actually doing it 1-2 seconds later sounds like godmodding. Especially when it sounds like the person was intending to kill the trooper in an instant without giving them a real chance to react whatsoever.

I'm pretty sure a monkey could half-ass an explanation for it a day after it happens and pretend like that was their intent at the time.

Given the past history of TechnoKat and the fact that he's actually meeting a quota in which he performs the minimal amount of validhunting or self-antagonizing with a silent agreement with the staff to not be permanently banned from every authority role ever, I don't think his conduct has really changed to warrant an antagonist ban lift.

[Frances]

I noticed that nobody wants to take into account of the poweremoting. I don't know about you, but "popping a couple rounds into the trooper before aiming to the DO" before actually doing it 1-2 seconds later sounds like godmodding. Especially when it sounds like the person was intending to kill the trooper in an instant without giving them a real chance to react whatsoever.

It's not really poweremoting if there's an actual gameplay system supporting it. The emote there might have been courtesy to quickly explain the deliberate intent of the action, because there's such a kneejerk reaction to "attacking/killing a person without a warning".

Poweremoting would be, for example, "Archibald knocks the officer unconscious and takes off!", where you'd be forcing a character to give you an advantage through your emoting (though they could just say no). It's not really power-anything when you just, say you're gonna shot a guy a few times and then shoot him a few times.

Anyway, here's the part I don't get. What are you people expecting? (and by "you people", I mean everybody posting on this complain with gripes against this specific incident.) Like, how does one kidnap a target with an escort? Since when has the "don't kill people without a reason" rule evolved into a "don't kill people, ever, unless you monologue to them during three different rounds or they make the rule-breaking mistake of trying to kill you first"?

I mean, I hope people see where I'm coming from. I might be wrong. But I feel like shooting down a DO's escort to try to kidnap the DO (when the DO had no chance at accomplishing their own objective) really shouldn't be seen as an attack on roleplay, but rather an attempt at creating an interesting antag narrative.

 

Especially when it sounds like the person was intending to kill the trooper in an instant without giving them a real chance to react whatsoever.

On this part, specifically, because I see a lot of people get mad at things like this happening, and I think they're misdirected:

-The official definition of ganking is randomly killing people without a precise aim. It's never been expanded beyond that.

-Not giving people a chance to fight back doesn't equate ganking. You could stun, cuff, kidnap and execute a person all without giving them a single chance to fight back, yet for some reason people would consider it "fair". Forcing belligerents to purposely "leave their opponents a chance" ends in silly and forced situations. Security is also under no obligation to let antags escape; it's left to their judgement to pursue the most interesting course of action.

-It's going to be impossible to provide everyone with meaningful deaths. If you're going to punish people on the sole basis that they killed someone without interacting with them beforehand, you might as well start antag-banning any nuke ops who use bombs, as the explosion and venting could kill someone in the same "cheap" way.

Edit: This was actually changed, so Techno did break the rules. Huh. I don't really agree with the new stance, but anyhow, not my place to speak anymore.

[Skull132]

This is a curious one, and the decision was slipped by me as I transitioned into place.

- An unwritten rule that the admins have basically been enforcing over the past few months is that DOs are not the most valid of targets on station. It's not written anywhere, but that's roughly how it's ended up a few times when I was observing. I do not personally like it, but this falls in vain of that.

- Gank and killing people are a curious point. I had a really fun discussion with a few folks here on the topic, and therein can be found my personal views. Though, these are not the active server rules that I am required to enforce, and I understand as much. As it stands, it's effectively against the rules, but I'd like to hear what RP Techno had in mind to create from this situation, and how he escalated it. Basically, what was your end goal?

[Guest]

Skull, I don't know if it's currently standing, but as Headmin, Doom released a brief on 'Ganking' and within, it determined that if a person is assumed to be reasonably armed and a threat to an antag, attacking them without significant roleplay is not gank. The attack on the DO themselves though, would still be considered gank, just not on the escort.

[SierraKomodo]

Skull, I don't know if it's currently standing, but as Headmin, Doom released a brief on 'Ganking' and within, it determined that if a person is assumed to be reasonably armed and a threat to an antag, attacking them without significant roleplay is not gank. The attack on the DO themselves though, would still be considered gank, just not on the escort.

 

The escort, in this case, was actively chatting, albeit in brief words, with Kaipov. The carbine was holstered and set to stun. No hostile or aggressive words or acts were performed up to the emote and clickspam of the gun. Sure, the escort was armed (Visibly, since the carbine was shoulder over the armor and not in the satchel), but she wasn't an immediate or direct threat to him at that point.

That's like a nukeop immediately gunning down a security officer on sight just because he happens to have a taser in his belt.

[Frances]

The escort, in this case, was actively chatting, albeit in brief words, with Kaipov. The carbine was holstered and set to stun. No hostile or aggressive words or acts were performed up to the emote and clickspam of the gun. Sure, the escort was armed (Visibly, since the carbine was shoulder over the armor and not in the satchel), but she wasn't an immediate or direct threat to him at that point.

That's like a nukeop immediately gunning down a security officer on sight just because he happens to have a taser in his belt.

Well, the question is, how do you kidnap a DO?

And do we really need to go through the charade of "you must provide the escort interesting roleplay before killing them"? That seems a bit silly past a point.

[EORhappiness]

Techno. As it stands, You were given a chance not to be a piece of a shit being an antag. Actually, many chances. You're treated so lenient for something people get banned for lesser. Why are you still bitching again?

You have twenty-eight notes. Twenty-eight. People usually kiss the curve with around 3-5 notes. Thirteen of those because about poor play when you're an antag. When you shot the DO, the Escort, and attempted to shoot their pilot the moment their ship dropped into the port, you did nothing but spawncamped. That was the final straw the broke the camel's back and that's why you're never going to get your antagonist role ever again.

 

Im sorry, but. After witnessing Techno "RP" a few times now- I am unfortunatly inclined to fully agree with this statement, With Twenty Eight notes im honestly Dumbfounded as to why you have not been Flat out banned yet.